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  1. #1
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    Default quint concept

    What are the different cities around the US and Canada that use the quint concept.

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    [FONT=century gothic][COLOR=crimson]The company that I run with has a quint that we run as our first out piece on any structure related calls. As a driver the only problem that I have with it is that it is only a 75 ft. and depending on the set back of the houses/building is that we might run out of ladder before it reaches the roof. Because the other two companies that assist us, do not leave the front of the house/building. But other then that I am very happy with our quint.
    A Truckie with LEATHER forever!!!

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    The only one that I know for sure that runs on a total quint concept is St. Louis City, MO.
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    Cool

    Richmond, VA has been running a total quint concept since the purchase of a new fleet in 1998. We bought 19 Pierce quints. 14 of these were 75 foot models, 4 were 105 footers and 1 was a 100 foot platform. We also bought 3 heavy rescues and 9 first response engines to go with the 12 standard engines which we kept. We already had one 75 foot Ferrara. We abolished all 8 truck companies. All of this costs about 12 million. Money was picked up with the sale of the old apparatus that was turned in to the shops. Plus we lost 50 members in this exchange, which the money save from salaries and benifits help pay for the purchase. We operate with 4 on the quints and 5 on the rescues as minimum staffing.

    The main problem with the 75 footers is the placement on the fire ground. You need to have the turn table as close to the building as possible. It is better to come off the back or side of the truck than over the cab, which you lose reach. We have been preaching for years that the front of the building belongs to the truck. The engine guys can always pull hose line around the truck but you can't pull the aerial around the engines.

    Quints work fine if everyone understand the operation for which they were bought for. We have a policy that the second due works as a truck unless there is heavy fire or rescue to be made, then the third due works as the truck.

    By the way St. Louis still have four (4) regular truck companies operating.


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    Smile Quints...

    I personally like the concept, but I am the minority
    here. Sutphen http://www.sutphen.com seems to make a
    lot.

    To answer your question, here are some links to
    departments that run them.

    www.lafdco.org

    www.ocfa.org

    www.anaheim.net/depts_servc/fire/

    www.ci.las-vegas.nv.us/fire-rescue

    www.ventura.org
    Last edited by CAFFBOU; 08-03-2002 at 07:03 PM.

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    also the Waco Fire Department in Texas runs some quints. don't know how many but they do have some.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
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  7. #7
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    My dept.Rochester NY runs with quint/midis.We have 9 q/m and 8 engines along with a rescue. If quint first in, then brings in first line and is base pumper,midi feeds quint.Engine first in then quint guys all do truck work,'cept for midi driver who feeds engine.

    Btw just finished my night trick,2 fires one with a double fatal(killed first fire set to cover killings) and 10 runs last night,just going to float in pool today.

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    Default Great! One BIG problem.

    I think the quint is a great concept. Most of the firefighting tools you need on the first-in truck. As long as they are staffed correctly, they are a very useful tool. In my dept. where we are understaffed and with a low volume of actual working structure fires, a quint would be ideal. Almost everything you need is there right off the bat. No need to delay a rescue from an upper floor or master stream operations waiting on an aerial apparatus.

    Now the bad side:

    orignially posted by Cmdr/3rdalarm ...Plus we lost 50 members in this exchange, which the money save from salaries and benifits help pay for the purchase...
    If the politicians are going to use the quint as a manpower reducing tool, send it somewhere else. The last thing the fire service is another reason to get rid of more firefighters. The City of St. Louis has the right idea. Use the quint as a pumper that just happens to have a ladder on top of it.
    Life is only temporary, but freedom goes on forever. God bless those who gave all.

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    [QUOTE]The City of St. Louis has the right idea. Use the quint as a pumper that just happens to have a ladder on top of it.

    Actually St. Louis was facing budget cuts and manpower reductions which was a big factor in them going to the Quint Concept.

    That's if I remember the facts, just the facts.


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    Steve
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    ...if staffed properly?

    Show me one quint in America that is staffed to do both engine and truck work simultaneously. That would require 2 officers and a minimum of 6 firefighters. If they are trying to do both functions at the same time with less, one or both of these tasks are not getting done.

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    RS-1Alum I couldn't have said it better. I work on a quint and hate it. The bottom line for me is until there are 8 seats on the quint then it is a manpower reducer.

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    St. Louis and Richmond, Va. run true "Total Quint Concepts." Also, Syracuse runs a Maxi/Mini program which has been successful for them for decades.

    Boukca, As you know Sutphen as anyone can make a quint. Pierce, E-One, ALF, etc. make alot of them. Few departments run a total quint fleet though. St. Louis runs Smeals on Spartan chassis, Richmond, Va. runs Pierce and Syracuse runs KME I believe.

    Quints are manpower minimizing, fire ground limited, public safety as an afterthought, anti-fire fighter, money saving, cost cutting pieces of equipment if run in a large department fleet wide with no less than 6-7 fire fighters on board. Just my thoughts.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    The way I understand it, St. Louis FD is down to around 700 FF's from around 1200 FF's in the 1950's. The population declined due to urban flight, and the city started cutting jobs. They do ride 4 on the quints, and at least 4 on the ladders. I think the economics of the city got so bad years ago, the then Chief had to come up with some solution or more people would get layed off and companies would closed. Is it the ideal situation, no, but they adapted to it and do the best they can with the cards delt to them by bean-counting city officials. (Just my opinion, I may be incorrect in the facts).

    I work on a 3-4 man (manpower depending) Quint , 75 ft E-One stick, , and it is used as an Engine 90% of the time. We still give it the front of the building, and we train with the ladder, but, it isn't as efficient as a real ladder truck with 5 "truckies" coming off. But, we do the best with what we are given. We are replacing it with a 100 ft Pierce platform next month, to keep up with new buildings in our district. But it will still have 3-4 FF's manning it, hopefully that will change someday.

    Untill then, we will make it work as best as we can.
    Last edited by FHandz17; 08-06-2002 at 11:56 AM.

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    I'm a proud member of the St Louis City fire department and we use the total quint concept. 30 Smeal engine companys with 75 ft ladders,run with a crew of 4. 4 truck companys with either 110 ft or 125 ft,( i believe 2 of each) they run with 5 i believe. (I'm on a engine). we also have 2 rescue squads,

    the 30 engines have 75 ft areial, 500 gal water tanks,15 gal foam, 2-200ft 1 3/4 " preconnects, 800 ft 4" ldh, 250 ft 2 1/2 " line, 200 ft 1" booster line. 2000 gpm Hale pumps. 8kw generators. I can try to get you more infromation on the specs if you need it.

    their all laid out the same so you can jump from truck to truck. first pumper does engine work, second pumper on scene does truck work, third pumper does back up water supply. if its a first alarm the hook and ladder and squad get dispatched plus 2 more pumpers


    pretty nice trucks i'd say.

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    I will keep comments to a minimum lest you know who shows up!Self fulfilling prophecy has a funny way of working in here.....

    Being a former FF from Richmond let me first say, except for the aging fleet of apparatus we had, things ran well.Realizing that most major departments, even after 9/11, are being hit pretty hard with cuts, most of us knew something would have to go(stations, manpower,etc...).I am still waiting for somebody to explain to me how on gods green earth how a municipality will save money by buying an entirely new fleet of apparatus. They say well feel the savings between year 10 and year 15 but these Quints won't make it to year 8(somebody mentioned that there were little maintenance problems...obviously he has not been by the City Shop in awhile).Somebody here has already mentioned the manpower angle, and it is something we are all familiar with so I won't go there...

    In closing TQC is a workable option for certain departments. I am sure that if there was a choice between closing stations and going TQC, most of us would go TQC. It is critical that communication exist both up and down the chain for it to work effectively. Since that very rarely happens the results are obvious. If you are really curious come on to Richmond- we will show you how NOT to do TQC...

    Let me again point out that it is the Blue Shirts in Richmond who have made TQC work....It sure isn't due to any purposeful thought by anybody downtown!
    Rob

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    I agree w/ Canadian Firemedic & RS-1 Alum....

    Quints seem to pull up and do half the necessary truck work and half the necessary engine work. Neither is exceptable.

    I do see the system working if all units are quints, such as St.louis. Here at least you can establish 1st , 3rd & 4th in quints will do engine work and 2nd & 5th will do the truck work- or any other similar variable.

    When a sole quint pulls up first on a working fire, followed by a standard 3 & 1 response, I often wonder as I arrive if the quint is doing the truck work or engine. Many times the unit blocks a real truck out of thew way.

    Unless staffed w/ 6 I give it a thumbs down.

  17. #17
    Eng20
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    Red face Are you a Eng or a Truck?

    I would like to know when your pulling out of the station and your manpower count is 4 or 5 what is your piece responding as or its intended use? Is it an Eng to be used for suppression or a truck to do search and rescue and ventilation. The last time I looked, I haven't seen many of these quints able to function properly as two units.

    That?s why in the FDNY they have Eng companies and Truck companies and most other large citys. I never understood why someone would purchase a truck and try and operate it as two separate pieces besides cost.


    If you want to be a truck company, why not purchase a truck (Tower/Ladder) If you want to run as an Engine company, purchase an Engine. This way the piece operates as it designation.

    What happen to mutual ad.

    I am only asking, not passing judgment on to those who have a quint in service.

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    We run a 55' telesquirt as our first due. It's pretty simple. It's an Engine that has something extra when/if needed. Quite a few of these around me, and they all run the same way.

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    I agree with ya, Bones. Our 75' is first out as an engine in town. Considering we don't have a "Real" truck for 15 miles, we use ours as the engine with an aerial ladder and a few more ground ladders. Out of town, we do the truck work. Considering if we didn't run a quint, there wouldn't be a truck there, isn't the quint in front better than the "truck" thats 15 miles away? Our typical staffing is at least 6, which includes the officer and operator. That leaves me 2 guys on a line, 2 guys searching and 3 full engine companies on the first due alarm to use as needed.
    Eng20, to answer your question better, we know through our SOG's and training that it is an engine primarily in town, therefore the line seats are the first filled. Then the "truck" seats. As for out of town, we are almost always designated as the truck company.

  20. #20
    Eng20
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    Quint1Driver


    You answered my question "What are you when you are pulling out of the Station"

    But what if you have a manpower problem, which we all do at times, you need to make a decision on what the piece should operate as?

    Most departments with trucks will tell you that the truck should be first out and first on the scene to do search and rescue and then your Engine lays in to supply and perform suppression task.

    I am just an old believer that either your a truck company or and Engine company so there is no confusion on the scene of an incident what the responsibilities are for those on the equipment.

    I know firefighters believe we can do it all, but lets make it easier on us and narrow down what our responsibilities are so we can provide a better service instead of 50 % suppression and 50% truck work, because thats what a quint does at times.

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    Show me a fire department that has SOP's to do both simultaneously. No one does. They all have first rig is an engine second is a ladder etc. So there is no reason to staff as a dual unit.



    So coming up on air and saying quint four onscene we're an ENGINE woiuld be confusing?



    So most firfighters can only understand how to be a truckee or a pumper guy, but could never figure ut both tasks?



    So if that is so, who other than LA City runs the ladder out of the station in front of the pumper?



    How is that possible? If it is a quint, it has the ladders, aerial etc just like a ladder, it has the water, hose, etc of a pumper, so how does it only do half a job?



    The downtown boys bought them right? Pretty hard for the blue shirts to use something they don't own. Your fleet prior to quints was a bunch of worn out junk.

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    WE DISCUSSED THE QUINT CONCEPT WHEN WE ORDERED OUR TRUCK. THIS DEVELOPED INTO QUITE THE DISCUSSION.MY OPINION WAS A TRUCK IS A TRUCK AND AN ENGINE IS AN ENGINE AND THEY CAN'T DO BOTH. UNLESS YOU HAVE A TEN PERSON CAB AND FULL STAFFING TO PERFORM BOTH FUNCTIONS, IT WOULDN'T WORK. ST.LOUS WORKS WELL SINCE THEY HAVE MOSTLY QUINTS. WHEN YOU RUN FIRST OUT OF YOUR STATION FOR A STRUCTURE FIRE AND HAVE A QUINT WITH NO 2ND DUE TRUCK COMING TRUCK WORK SUFFERS BECAUSE THE QUINT CREW IS NOW AN ENGINE COMPANY. AND IF THEY TAKE THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING THEY BLOCK OUT THE 2ND DUE TRUCK. YOU CAN'T RUN THE PUMPS AND OPERATE THE AERIAL AT THE SAME TIME BY THE SAME PERSON.WE NOW HAVE A TRUCK, NO QUINT.

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    Sheeshh where is Larry (m***) when you need him..

    Time for another cheers Brother's and Sister's.

    FTM, PTB, RFB
    FDNY 343

    forgot to do my spell check agian.
    Last edited by FF.1205; 08-17-2002 at 07:54 PM.

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    Not even one function at a time?



    Can you or anyone list a single FD that by written SOP has onequintdo two functions at the same time with a crew of 3 or 4? THEY DON'T EXIST! So it really makes this endless staffing arguement MUTE!



    100% is mostly?



    Can't the officer call the next in engine and swap roles? Can't an engine company take what it doesn't carry offthe quint and act as a ladder? They are both at the same call right?

    < AND IF THEY TAKE THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING THEY BLOCK OUT THE 2ND DUE TRUCK.>

    Gee, don't the officer's have a clue what they are doing?

    < YOU CAN'T RUN THE PUMPS AND OPERATE THE AERIAL AT THE SAME TIME BY THE SAME PERSON>

    Why not? we do it lots. All the controls are right there! Dang, hook up a supply line and throttle up, what else is there 99% of the time?

    It seems many of these arguements assume no one has any experience and hasn't spent any time thinking about application of the rig. I bet quint towns don't burn down.

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    Originally posted by erniefire
    I bet quint towns don't burn down.
    Larry, oops, I mean ernie is absolutely right. We were going to scrap everything and start running quints, but we were too late, our town burned down.

    Now, all we have left is an engine and a tower with no buildings to protect.

    Boy, did we learn our lesson.

    Stay Safe

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