1. #1
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    Unhappy Scared to climb the stick.

    We have an explorer, 14, that is scared to climb the ladder, then again half of the guys that control it spin it around and screw with the people on it, we raise it to 90 degrees amd have them climb it and then half of the guys spin it then stops it so it seems as it will bend and touch the ground. Is it just because he is young, or is it because of the way the guys handle the men may give him a bad impression?

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    He's 14?........Sounds like he may have a good reason to be afraid of climbing the ladder...
    Did anyone maybe take him up gradually, 20 ft initially, 50 ft etc, at a shallower angle to build confidence rather than sending him than straight to the top at 90deg or maybe put him on the tip and let him ride it up for a try......providing that the operator can appreciate the fact the he/she has a youngster on the ladder and should maybe act a little more responsibly than some?

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    how about a 14 year old shouldnt be climbing an ladder at all, much less 90 degrees with some guy hazing him at the controls!
    " truck till the casket drops "

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    Angry 14 year old climbing ladders?

    Why in heavens name does your department allow a explorer to climb a ladder in the first place. If you are part of a Boyscout explorer program then there are rules on what can not be done. I think the maximum height allowed is either 12 or 20 feet. The intent of the explorer program is to teach young people about the fire service and possible gain some new members in the process. The actions that are taking place at your station are at the least shows poor judgement and at the most could be concerned risk of injury to a minor. Please find and read the regulations for your explorer program and change these actions.









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    Default You do what!!!

    You spin the ladder while someone is climbing it? I'm getting mad just thinking about the pure lack of sense in that action. If someone did that to me without warning, or even with warning, during training I can guarantee that I'd be in front of the disciplinary board because I'd break both arms of the guy who did that to me.

    Maybe it is just where I'm from but, my God, what a stupid risk to screw with someone when they are 20, 30, 40, or 50 feet in the air. Come on.

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    SHEEEIT! Man I held back thinkin I'd get cut up for dissin FDNY...My initial sentiments were similar to NSC's...regardless wether he did that to me or someone else...I'd poke the mother****er in the gob!

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    Thumbs down I cant believe it...

    It is actions like that **** me off! Keep jerking that
    ladder around with somone on it and expect this-

    1. You WILL be fired.
    2. You, the department and possilby the Captains
    can and WILL be sued!
    3. You could face criminal charges. Hello....
    ever hear of "child endangerment"???
    4. Ignite the worst image of your agency when the
    story hits the 5 oclock news and maybe goes
    national. (Dateline, etc...)

    Good God...Everyone is sueing everyone today and you
    clowns wanna spin people around on the ladder- lame!
    Let me guess..Are you fools back East???

    PS- When I was an Explorer, part of the education was
    to climb the ladder and go up in the snorkel. It should
    be part of the fire service/career exploring experience.
    Last edited by CAFFBOU; 07-28-2002 at 11:11 PM.

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    SPIN WHAT? WITH A HOW OLD KID? OMG!!! I can't believe this was allowed to happen.

    No wonder he was afraid. Anyone would have been afraid of something like that at that age.
    I.A.C.O.J. Firefighter/EMT-B

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    Default Re: Scared to climb the stick.

    Originally posted by Engine7 Ladder1
    We have an explorer, 14, that is scared to climb the ladder, then again half of the guys that control it spin it around and screw with the people on it, we raise it to 90 degrees amd have them climb it and then half of the guys spin it then stops it so it seems as it will bend and touch the ground. Is it just because he is young, or is it because of the way the guys handle the men may give him a bad impression?

    Your department is setting a wonderful example of how to kill and injure someone.

    Your department is breaking every cardinal rule for aerial ladder operations.

    14 year olds do not belong on the stick...period!

    What training manuals are you using, the ones from the Alan Baird School of Firefighting?
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    I think we all need to jump on this one. Everyone summed it up here pal. Your department members are a disgrace. First off, no one should be climbing an aerial at 90 degrees unless they absolutely have to. And jerking and spinning it. You won't be satisified until someone gets killed, and when that happens I hope they rip everyone on that turntable into jail. Real nice, regardless if they are 14 or 44, if they are new, they should be made comfortable. And people wonder why the volunteer fire service is hurting in some areas. You guys get rid of em' before they are of age. I can tell you this, if I was that kids father, someone would have a big problem. I can guarantee you, there isn't too many people who were screw around with me, or any of the guys that were on my shift when I was at the truck. Nothing like stupidity. If I were you, I'd seperate myself from those characters fast, if not you department, apparantly lack of leadership is rampant.

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    Angry wow

    I cant belive your department lets them do that. I went up on my arieal(100FT) at charity event - I only went up 5 rungs for a picture and I was scared sh*^$less to be up there .

    I was only up there in plain clothes and THE LADDER WAS NOT MOVEING! I looked into hieghts on the BSA site 35 ft. max and they have to be 15 years of age, so if that poor kid fell it is all pinned on the operator , the department. The BSA will have nothing to do with that!

    And once his parents sued everybody under the sun, all explorers everywhere will be even more restricted in activitys !And it will raise our insurance bill. This in my humbled opinion is a classic case of "One person ruins it for everybody else."

    Just my one cent.

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    Well, I am not sure about most people here, but I can tell you with great certanty that if it was me at the top and the Operator was spinning the ladder around on me there had better be a good reason for it to be moved. Because if not, I would be the first one down with a hose wrench and the Operator would become intimately accquainted with it.

    I don't like heights to begin with, but I can deal with it when I have too. And someone at the bottom messing around with the ladder is not a good way to instill confidence in a novice.

    Capt Gonzo, you have said exactly what I was thinking when I read the opening post... I agree with you completely, thank you.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    Default Idiocy!!!!!

    As far as climbing the laddder, that is one thing, but the conditions you describe are unreasonable and unsafe!! I would first off chew the a**es of the operators who are treating the apparatus like a damn toy!! Great way to inspire and teach, by scaring the crap out of them!! It is truly IDIOTS like this who get people killed in training.
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: Scared to climb the stick.

    We have an explorer, 14, that is scared to climb the ladder

    Yes, your right BSA has set the limit of 35 feet for explorers climbing ladders and that's any type. We won't let our explorers touch the main due to this

    then again half of the guys that control it spin it around and screw with the people on it, we raise it to 90 degrees and have them climb it and then half of the guys spin it then stops it so it seems as it will bend and touch the ground

    Ok, here's your next ladder failure. I wouldn't even climb that main after it's been put thru that kind of abuse and it is abuse!



    Robert B.
    Haddon Fire Co. #1
    Explorer Post 5141 Adviser

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    Question Does the word "STUPID" come to mind??

    First.....In my old department a 14 year old would not be allowed to climb the ladder. I believe if you were to look into the Federal OSHA guidelines (which I believe apply to all) it describes things that minors can and can not do and specifically discusses activities in "Hazardous Occupatins" (volunteer or career it is considered an occupation). I believe you will see something about ladders discussed in the restrictions.

    SECOND>>>>>And MORE IMPORTANTLY.....Lets get to your question. If you have a person who is scared of heights you need to work with them and give them support. Start with just having them do something silly like stand on a counter and then work with them on a step ladder or a "little giant" ladder. Then move to the attic ladder and on to a roof ladder and then an extension and then the aerial. Sure...this takes time but apparently you must believe the person we are talking about has potential to be a good firefighter or you would never have brought the question here.

    HOWEVER>>>>>>>>>>>>> You or someone in your Department needs to instill some discipline in the "so called firefighters" that are intimidating personnel by moving the aerial. I read and re-read your post and am assuming(correct me if I am wrong) that this movement is taking place with people on the ladder. DANGER DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON!!!!!!! This violates every safety rule in the teaching manuals as well as in the operators manual of the aerial. Everyone knows you do not move or retract an aerial with someone on it unless it is an emergency. Did they read the manuals? or....Can they even read? This is outrageous! It sounds as if the movement is a sudden move and a sudden stop which in addition to the danger to the person on it, increases the stress on the ladder and could possibly lead to failure of the hydraulics or the ladder itself. If this had happened in the department I come from in Virginia, the person (s) who did it would no longer be operators of that aerial and would most likely be on suspension. Why would someone with any common sense at all take a piece of equipment that costs over $750,000 and play with it as a toy??? What type of members do you have there? Do the words Lairdsville NY and Al Baird ring a bell? I hear he is looking for a Department to run.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    Default Who is in charge?

    I see very little distinction between the negligent actions of the aerial operator in this instance (rotating the ladder with persons climbing it, especially a 14 year old) and the actions that resulted in the death of a firefighter during a training exercise. Does anyone really think that the aerial operator and supervisor would not be held criminally liable if their STUPID actions resulted in another tragic training death?

    Come on, people. Use your head for more than a resting place for a leather helmet!

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    Thumbs down hehehehe, o, you weren't kidding?!?!

    i, i can't believe it. if ANYBODY ever did that to me or anyone else in my company, it would be the LAST time they would see the inside of the firehouse. unreal. if anybody wonders y people get killed in training accidents, these idiots are a prime example. I-my god, how stupid can you be?!?!?! then to admit to this many of your peers across the world that your department is made up of a bunch of incompetent morans?!?! wow, thats messed up. i feel the suddent erge to hit something now. peace
    Matt G. Warminster Fire Dept. Station 90
    IAFF Local F-106

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    Default

    You don't list your affiliation but use the "unofficial" website for FDNY as your website.

    I hope to god that you are in a position to put a stop to this, either as an Officer or to have the cajones to approach an Officer and have it stopped. Everyone is right, this is how people get killed or severly injured.

    I have to wonder how many of these cowboys could put up with the same treatment? If someone manuevered the stick while they were on it how quiet would they be about it?

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    "Is it just because he is young, or is it because of the way the guys handle the men may give him a bad impression?"

    I bet your department goes through a lot of explorers like this. If you scare them out of the fire service at 14 chances are you will not get them back at 16 or 18. If you kill them, you never get them back! Explore programs let the kids get on the trucks and look around, handle the equipment, try on gear, etc. but not to climb 100' sticks to be scared to death.
    "Illegitimis non carborundum."

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    I cant believe this was even posted. How about sending the name of the department involved. So I PERSONALLY can call the State Labor Department.

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    Default A good can of Whoop A**

    Why in the H*ll would you have the stick raised to 90 degrees?
    I couldn't tell you the last time that I saw a ladder, stick or what have you raised and operated at that height.
    As far as the age of this person. I don't care if the person has been around for years you never do something so irresponsible. Everyone here is searching for regs and SOP's/SOG's to see if these things are legal. I have one simple answer.
    COMMON FREAKIN'SENSE It is the most valuable thing a firefighter can have on a fireground.
    These people are a danger to themselves, you and your community. If I were you I would be very careful around them and do all that I could to ensure that they never are the operator when I have to get up on that ladder.
    I can't imagine the things that would happen if someone did something so stupid when I was up on the ladder. I would hold my own trial around back of the firehouse, If you know what I mean.


    "This opinion is strickly mine and not a reflection of the department that I belong too. God help the people who don't have the common sense to be a positive role model for the people of our future."

  22. #22
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    Engine7 Ladder1
    WOOF WOOF.

    Every one else had said the true facts, any response?
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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    Kiwi,

    I was thinking about using the "M" word myself, but I didnt want to make waves...

  24. #24
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    Default Troll?

    I was actually thinking I smell a troll. But the M word works quite well too.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

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    Default Scared to climb the stick

    Ok he is 14, he shouldn't be climbing the ladder thats fully extended
    and not spotted to a structure. But MOST IMPORTANT whats the idiot on the turntable thinks he is doing? He must not care for his job, family, or the youngster on the end of the ladder. The post does't say if the kid is safety-strapped to the ladder, I can only hope that he is. Foremost if this is the SOP for this knuckle-head perhaps he needs to be demoted or fired for putting peoples lives in danger so he can fulfill he sick form of humor.

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