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  1. #1
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Default Live Burn - Acquired Structure Training

    How do you run a live burn training in an acquired structure?
    What safety measures do you use?
    What tips do you have?
    Do you use NFPA 1403?
    Do you go beyond NFPA 1403?
    Anything you like/don't like about NFPA 1403?


  2. #2
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    This has been a discussion that has been beat to death before, but in the interest of safety and training.......

    I insist on following 1403.

    It is resource intensive but worth it.

    >Insure adequate amount of instructors and officers on site to fill out ICS positions: IC, Safety, Interior Safety (1st and second floor if necessary..report to Safety),Operations, Water Supply, RE-Hab, Medical
    (NOTE: Interior Safety supervise the lighting of the fires by an individual that is identified by IC....this person and only this person ignites after confirming each evolution is ready to begin and all is in place)
    (NOTE: Have one supervisor or officer (instructor) for your two primary lines that supervise the crews making entry
    >Primary Water supply
    >Back-up Water Supply (minimum) of 2000 Gallons
    >Attack Pumper
    ....minimum of one 1.75" line for attack and one 1.75" line as a backup line.
    >Supply Pumper
    >Safety Pumper
    ...backup/safety lines in place, charged and staffed (RIT)
    one 1.75" line (at least 200')and one 2.5" line (200'..charged and available)
    ...uses backup water supply and has supply line charged and attached to attack pumper so that if both primary pumpers take a crap it can pump through them long enough to facilitate rescue/evacuation
    >reserve Air supply
    >EMS Transport Vehicle
    >Insure Proper ventilation
    >2 story houses have ladders in place
    >Inspect house for hazards
    >Give group tour of house, identifying exits, safety factors etc.
    Have a diagram of building at CP
    >Brief group on events, evolutions and expectations
    >Fireground Channel for operation
    >Command post identified and in proper position
    >Identify all participants and have Accountability System in Place AND USE IT
    >Apparatus placement in a manner that facilitates any other incoming apparatus and enhances the ability to get water to scene in rural settings....dump tanks must be used here)
    >Insure proper class A materials are available and forbid use of any flammable or combustible liquids.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber N2DFire's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by captstanm1
    I insist on following 1403.

    It is resource intensive but worth it.
    Nuff Said.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

  4. #4
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Live Burn - Acquired Structure Training

    Originally posted by PA Volunteer
    How do you run a live burn training in an acquired structure?
    What safety measures do you use?
    What tips do you have?
    Do you use NFPA 1403?
    Do you go beyond NFPA 1403?
    Anything you like/don't like about NFPA 1403?
    If you must need a reason to follow NFPA 1403...one word...

    [size=large]Lairdsville![/size]

    'enuff said!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  5. #5
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Default

    Point of clarification - I'm not looking for justification to follow 1403. The justification is obvious.

    I'm looking for what people think of it, and how people operate outside of (meaning, in addition to, or above and beyond) 1403.

    Also, I want to know who out there does not follow 1403 and why on Earth they would do such a thing.

    Stay Safe

  6. #6
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    If you are planning to offer a Fire Academy local level Structural Burn Session, then the lead instructor will have policy and procedure to follow for the session. Otherwise, as the othes have stated, 1403.

  7. #7
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    I know this is not a discussion on the ins and outs of 1403....but...
    In light of recent happenings and past ones also, I can not imagine anyone in their right mind who would come on here and willingly state they don't follow 1403....(oh yea....if they are not following it they are not in thier right mind....)

    As we all know..the fire service is typically reactive as opposed to pro-active.... In that I mean....1403 and other standards for safety are developed because of stupid things that stupid people did/do that got innocent people hurt during training. The only draw back to NFPA 1403 is that we needed it long ago and should not have waited until someone got burned seriously or died because of ignorance.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  8. #8
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Default

    Captstan ... well put. Thanks for your responses.

    While I wouldn't mind a discussion on the ins and outs of 1403, one of my goals in posting this thread was to get some practical ideas which go beyond 1403.

    As far as I'm concerned, 1403 is the minimum ... now what can we do in addition to 1403, while still achieving the goal of a realistic, useful training?

    As far as no one being ignorant enough to state that they don't follow 1403 - I remember a thread not too long ago where someone asked why someone should be scared to climb the stick while the operator was moving/shaking/jerking the stick. So, you never know.

    Thanks for the input so far.

    Stay Safe

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