1. #26
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    Actually firenresq77...I read the important one...the news clipping where the driver admitted to speeding. Here are the facts...


    "He was passing cars, supposedly on an emergency run," Hawkins said

    "Hawkins" is the officer in charge of the investigation.


    "One of the witnesses said he was 'hauling a**,'" Hawkins said. "(Hutchins) told the officer at the scene he was going 20 miles over the speed limit."

    Hauling A*&!! Admitted to traveling over 20mph over the speed limit. I do not know about in his state, but in Mine, HE WAS SPEEDING AND OUT OF CONTROL OF HIS VEHICLE!!! He admitted it!

    "His wife was in the car with him," Hawkins said of Hutchins

    Oh boy, not another " honey come watch me play firefighter so you can call me a hero"


    "She was hurt worse than he was."

    So he almost killed his wife as well???

    Thursday evening around 6:30, Julia Vissing was driving east on Utica Pike near Duffy's Landing when she turned left to enter her driveway, according to Clark County Police Department spokesman Lt. John Hawkins. Upon turning, Vissing moved into the path of Michael Hutchins, 22, who was also driving east.

    They both where traveling from the SAME DIRECTION!!!!!!!! Both traveling EAST. Tells me he hit her from behind, couldn't control his truck and killed a 19 year old women. Like I said in my earlier post...he should be charged to the MAX!!!!
    ** The opionions are mine and mine alone, they are not that of my dept or the local**

  2. #27
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    In the state of Indiana, a blue light is a courtesy light. You are supposed to obey all traffic laws while driving with them activated. IF other drivers yield the right of way to you, you MAY then go through traffic sigals and stop signs. Driving with DUE REGARD.
    SIRENS ARE NOT ALLOWED ON POVS WITH A BLUE LIGHT.
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  3. #28
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    Post Blue Lights.

    I personally have nothing against running a blue light. It is called, in the state of Pennsylvania, a courtesy light also. You are NOT exempt from traffic laws and it does not make you King of the Road. It does give other motorists the knowledge that your an emergency services type, and most will yeild to you, or give you the right of way at an intersection. Very usefull device, I had one on my truck.

    The problem I see is how do you enforce saftey standards. How long do you put a vollie on the street for deglegent behavior while responding to the station? After a second warning, do you suspend his Blue light privliges? Do you set a good example as a leader in the Fire Department by obeying traffic laws yourself while responding? Remember, if YOU don't say anything and watch rules be broken or break them yourself, then YOU have just set a new standard...
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    Default so this means

    one of 2 things:

    1. he was running a blue light as a firefighter, so there should have been no siren and no speeding.

    or

    2. he is a chief(the article did say red light if i'm not mistaken) who was within his legal limits.

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    UPDATE: One thing we noted here when this discussion started is that no where does it state he was/wasn't driving a POV. Initial story simply said a car with lights and sirens ... and that he was with his wife. But whether he was in a POV or a Department Owned vehicle remains unclear.

    After some further confirmation following the inital reports over the weekend, the local fire department that responded to the crash reports it was an unmarked staff car with lights and sirens. In video shown on local television, however, the vehicle appears to be a unmarked gray pickup truck. We will post further details tommorrow.


    He was responding to board the department's rescue boat for a water rescue, according to a report.

    A local television station interviewing the family of the victim said he was a paramedic. The 19 year old girl killed was t-boned on the driver's side while turning left into her own driveway in her new car. The Louisville Channel reported the responder was passing traffic on the opposite lane when he struck the girl who turned left in front of him.

    As of late Sunday night, the Clark County, Ind. Sheriff's Office reported no charges had been filed in connection with the accident.

    Thanks
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  6. #31
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    bfd1071- I am not trying to get into a pi**ing contest with you. All I'm saying is you don't know ALL of the facts of the incident (unless you are witholding information from the rest of us on these forums, which I don't think is the case.......

    "He was passing cars, supposedly on an emergency run," Hawkins said

    "Hawkins" is the officer in charge of the investigation.

    I don't know the laws in his state, so I can't say if that is legal or not........ I don't believe you do either since you said: "I do not know about in his state, but in Mine, HE WAS SPEEDING AND OUT OF CONTROL OF HIS VEHICLE!!! He admitted it!"



    "One of the witnesses said he was 'hauling a**,'" Hawkins said. "(Hutchins) told the officer at the scene he was going 20 miles over the speed limit."

    "Hauling A*&!! Admitted to traveling over 20mph over the speed limit. I do not know about in his state, but in Mine, HE WAS SPEEDING AND OUT OF CONTROL OF HIS VEHICLE!!! He admitted it!"


    As we've already established, neither you or I am familiar with his states' laws. I know my state laws, which say that if a Firefighter has his vehicle inspected annually and displays the designated sticker identifying him as a volunteer firefighter and the annual inspection sticker (which are both issued by the State of Ohio Fire Marshal's Office)and his vehicle is properly equipped (at least 1 red or combination red/white light visible to at least 500 feet in front of the vehicle and an audible warning device, which includes sirens, bells and whistles I believe, that is audible to at least 500 feet in front of the vehicle) and he is responding on an emergency run, his vehicle is considered an emergency vehicle, meaning he has the same rights as a fire truck, ambulance or police car. In addition, according to the Ohio Revised Code, there are no speed limits for emergency vehicles, but a driver must have due regard to safety. As the webteam stated, he was driving an unmarked staff car (which, according to my states laws, would not require the annual inspection sticker and the maltese cross decal from the Fire Marshal's Office) and his red lights and siren were being operated at the time..........




    "His wife was in the car with him," Hawkins said of Hutchins

    "Oh boy, not another " honey come watch me play firefighter so you can call me a hero"


    Here you go again, assuming he was trying to show off for his wife....... You know what they say about assuming, and you are doing a fine job of it...... Like someone else said (if you actually read all of the other posts instead of just picking out the bits and pieces you wanted to), How do you know she was not also on the fire department?




    "Thursday evening around 6:30, Julia Vissing was driving east on Utica Pike near Duffy's Landing when she turned left to enter her driveway, according to Clark County Police Department spokesman Lt. John Hawkins. Upon turning, Vissing moved into the path of Michael Hutchins, 22, who was also driving east."

    "They both where traveling from the SAME DIRECTION!!!!!!!! Both traveling EAST. Tells me he hit her from behind, couldn't control his truck and killed a 19 year old women. Like I said in my earlier post...he should be charged to the MAX!!!!"


    I have seen others post on here saying in their state, before making a left hand turn, you are required to check in your mirrors, to make sure there aren't any emergency vehicles coming up beside you.


    Like I said before, you don't have all of the facts, so how can you sit there and say he should be charged to the MAX? I feel sorry for anyone in a trial if you are on the jury......


    I am not saying he did nothing wrong, because I don't know all the facts. I am not saying I agree with everything he did, because I wasn't there. You are entitled to your opinion and so am I. This may just be one of those things the we will have to agree to disagree on.

  7. #32
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    Firenreq77...

    This might be fine in Ohio, but the accident occured in Indiana. As the webteam posted, more facts will be coming out from this incident.

    Career or volunteer, one should report to the scene or firehouse without endangering the lives of the public. If it's a rip-roarer, there will be plenty of fire to go around by the time one gets there. A similar thread on the Junior/Explorer forum about driving at high speed to the firehouse "to make the truck" was started, the "pup" who started it got slammed hard not only by the "crusties" but by his own peers as well.
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  8. #33
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    Try this on for size. In my jurisdiction, quite a few years ago, a police unit was responding to a call, lights and siren...passing vehicles that had stopped or slowed. He was using the left(oncoming) lane to accomplish this. A vehicle suddenly made a left turn in front of the police vehicle and the police unit broadsided the vehicle. The injuries to the woman driver of the POV were minor. The result?

    The woman was charged with failure to yield to an emergency vehicle and careless driving. She had not heard or seen the approaching police unit, turned left into a business entrance, was struck by the police vehicle...and the police alleged that it was her fault. She was the culprit here.

    Is this much different than the incident being discussed here?

    It boils down to perspective. Had the woman died...would the views have been different? That's a $64,000 question.
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    Just as a further update, we will be doing a follow-up story early this week. It does appear it was a department-owned, unmarked vehicle.

    Its not clear yet whether the response was from the firehouse to the boat ramp, or from and to elsewhere.

    We'll continue to post information as we get it.

    WebTeam

  10. #35
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    The webteam has provided us with good additional information.

    So the story changes a bit but the situation is the same. Someone had an accident while responding and killed someone. The fact that it was a staff car or a POV only changes the legal ramifications. It would be interesting to see the code section on responding in either case. I would almost (never 100% certain) that there is a "due regard" clause in the section. So then the question becomes..."Was the driver using due regard for the safety of others?"..... This question should apply to either type vehicle.
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  11. #36
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    Thumbs down disgusting

    heh, this is almost funny! i mean, once again the person that started this hole thing is that same contriversal loud mouth explorer who obviously hasen't learned to put his brain in gear b4 his mouth. ladies and gentalmen, boys and girls. i think those of us who speak of things ASSUMING that they are facts are as bad as the driver in question. HE IS STILL A BROTHER!!!! bfd, were you there?? it sounds like you were. i just say that b/c you seem to know a lot more about it than we do. i'm gonna stop now, i'm obviously pretty burned up about some people here. i will leave with this...THINK BEFORE YOU POST!!! stay safe everyone. peace
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  12. #37
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    Default Seeins as how I'm in Indiana....................

    With the information now available, I will have to OPINION that the victim erred by not checking her mirrors before turning. ALSO, as it was a properly equipped emergency vehicle under INDIANA law, she failed to yield to an emergency vehicle. Was there excessive speed involved? Don't know, thats for the cops to decide.

    He could have been driving with due regard and still gotten into this collision. When the other driver errs like this, and he was operating within the paramaters provided by law, there is only so much he could havedone inthis instance to prevent this tragedy.

    It is a tragedy.
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  13. #38
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    Gonzo- I understand this happened in Indiana. That is why I kept saying, "I don't know his state's laws." Also, I do not condone driving at high speeds going to a call. I wasn't saying that it is OK to drive at high speeds or to drive recklessly. If it came across that way, I apologize, as that was not my intent. I have a little more sense experience than the explorer who posted the other stuff...

    I was just trying to get the point across that people need to have the whole story before they make a judgement....... Call me a devil's advocate.....

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    We should have an update on this story early this week. Still a few facts hanging out there.

    Thanks
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    Post WOW

    Seems like this story changes more everyday. 180 degrees from where this has started. Still one fact remains, a woman is dead and a negitive mark is over the fire department.

    It did spark a good debate on POV responce though.

    We do have a problem yet. It is our duty, responding in POV or department vehicle to protect lives. Somehow, either by our own fault or someone elses, we have failed. My heart is filled greif over the tough anwsers we now face.

    Webteam, we await further info. Thanks. Be Safe, Drew
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  16. #41
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    I just wanted to give y'all something to chew on here.

    I realize that I am in Canada, no where even close to Indiana. I am going to see if I can't pull up some info out of the state law library though. Here in BC, if you turn left, and are involved in an MVA of any kind it is deemed your fault Unless that MVA is with an emergency vehicle, meaning a dept vehicle not a POV, even if you were responding to a call. Any MVA's with emergency vehicles are automatically deemed the fault of the responder because the powers that be figure you should be a better driver then everyone else. Then our emergency vehicles also carry a completely seperate catagory of insurance from all other vehicles, and the drivers have to have a specific commercial licence plus a seperate emergency driving course.

    Second thing is this 19 yr old girl was driving her brand new car, if I am not mistaken, I also have a brand new car, and it came quite nicely equiped with a pretty good stereo. I'm sure that most of us have heard stereo's blasting from give or take 4 blocks away. It is an assumption, but I would tend to think that she probably had her stereo turned up. Which would account for her not hearing him. Of course there are umpteen other possibilities, like she could have been on the phone, new driver with no clue, playing with the stereo etc. The point here is that some of the responsibility of this crash is hers.

    bfd1071

    Hauling A*&!! Admitted to traveling over 20mph over the speed limit. I do not know about in his state, but in Mine, HE WAS SPEEDING AND OUT OF CONTROL OF HIS VEHICLE!!! He admitted it!
    Ahhhhhh... I don't think he was actually out of control of his vehicle until perhaps a split second before he collided with the 19yr old, who (I am assuming here) didn't look in the rear view before turning.

    "She was hurt worse than he was."

    So he almost killed his wife as well???
    The article says that she was hurt worse then he was not that she was next to death. Once again it didn't state whether she whether she was on the same dept or not.

    Please I am not trying to attack you or anything else, but in the beginning of this thread, a good number of us did come down on an explorer for exaggerating. Let's just stick to the facts.

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    Originally posted by Temptaker
    ...Here in BC, if you turn left, and are involved in an MVA of any kind it is deemed your fault Unless that MVA is with an emergency vehicle, meaning a dept vehicle not a POV, even if you were responding to a call. Any MVA's with emergency vehicles are automatically deemed the fault of the responder because the powers that be figure you should be a better driver then everyone else. Then our emergency vehicles also carry a completely seperate catagory of insurance from all other vehicles, and the drivers have to have a specific commercial licence plus a seperate emergency driving course. ...
    Tempie... Also in Canada you need to yeild to moose turning right on a Tuesday and Sasquach holding snowcones...
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  18. #43
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    Drew

    Tempie... Also in Canada you need to yeild to moose turning right on a Tuesday and Sasquach holding snowcones...
    The ones with the snowcones you are ok to go first with, it is the ones with BEER you gotta yield too

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