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View Poll Results: Should training burns be outlawed?

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  • Yes

    0 0%
  • No

    8 66.67%
  • Yes, with exceptions

    0 0%
  • No, it's good practice

    4 33.33%
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  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    21

    Question Live training burns

    We seem to be killing more and more firefighters with live training burns. Why are departments still doing live burns?


  2. #2
    Senior Member Rascal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    las vegas,NV USA
    Posts
    175

    Default

    i think what needs to happen here is simple.i think the crew that is doing the training should do the training.but i think there needs to be two crews (engine and truck) waiting in case something goes wrong.the engine crew should have a line charged and ready to go before anything is lit.if the fire gets out of hand then the engine company is ready to go in.also,the truck crew should also be ready to go in case something happenes.
    Shane
    Do not fear to step into the unknown...for where there is risk, there is also reward.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Connecticut shoreline
    Posts
    42

    Default With all due respect

    I have been saying that certainly here in the northeast, over the last 25 years the number of fires has decreased so that the level of experiance and experiance has not been allowed to grow, due Mainly to the reason of the fire service in general having to and in some cases feeling they need to justify our existance taking over EMS duties as first responders in many cases, as well as beig overly concerned with extras such as hazmat, confined space, hi-angle etc etc etc.. but forget about the bread and butter stuff... I see it both in my vollie companies as well as on my job, now the guys running the shows have great educations and certifications and were the panty boys hiding in the back yard or cooling gas clouds with a fog nozzle from outside, when they have no idea what they are doing to the interior crews or victims... Also ou see it when you encounter the "moth" syndrome which is feeble attenpts to put out any flame that is exposed and being pushed out of the building...( OMG ITs FIRE HURRY STUFF IN BACK IN THAT WINDOW, it might run out of fuel and we will have to pick up hose !!!)

    Training fires.... I believe that many of the situations have occurred because of stupidity in general, and by inexperiance on the parts of both "instructors" as well as members being instructed....

    the attitudes of some "training" officers is to get it cranking ,,hehehe lets teach em something, Yet it seems they dont know much either, because You dont take a raw newbie and just say here put the fire out... without knowing how he will handle the situation...
    natuarally standby or RIT companies have to be in place, equally so do trained members who can guide and help the new guys along if need be keeping in mind that a open fire in a combustionable building is going to extend quickly...
    and in a concrete building spalling will occurre rapidily as heat builds up.

    How stupid is it to use a multiple story w/f, allowing members above the fire, while you are burning below? Sure we operate above fires and its one of the most dangerous positions to be in... IN any of the burn buildings I have ever been in (12 or 14) we Always burned the upper floors room by room
    after everyone did a walk through prior to lighting it up, which is of course unrealistic but a heck of a lot safer.... with additional back up crews poised and ready to go in... I take that back I recall One burn in a 21/2 frame we had one burn in the kitchen, the temp was in the 90's and air was heavy, quick attack and back out, just to knock it down without wetting the whole place.. the "burn officers"
    made a quick check above as crews changed bottles and were lined up for the next senerio... the attack crew was in place ( thank god) and had water in the line... when the first floor flashedover chasing the two burn officers back up the stairs to the second floor.... I was the pump op for the senerio and was watching as the flashover occurred, I soon noticed one of the brothers stick his head out the window, to see if the porch roof was tenible (it was not... Had I not been watching and seen him, they might have been lost too, I grabbed the 24 and got it to the window and got em both down unscathed,,, but a little nervous... the nozzle man for that attack was a JR
    so , I told the first one down to watch the pump, I ran round front and found the crew making great progress with the single 1 3/4 line
    and smooth bore... as it turns out, that JR today is a proud member on the squad company in the Bronx... he was just a kid , but had had as much exposure as one could get without the real thing... so that when the real thing was there in his lap, he was able to do the job... Training fires Can get out of hand... you cant afford to be lax or stupid and you have to be prepared to do the real thing.. If its the intention to burn a building down then set uup your deck guns and protect the exposures.. if your going to Train to fight fires do it intelligently , methodically and use every bit of common sense you can muster one room at a time, from the top down pre ventilation is safest and set up secondary mean of egress(es) on every side have back up crews in position, masked and ready to jump , along with guys with tools Trucks as well as RIT guys
    monitor the structure and progress made or not and be prepared to back em out , Just like real, cause it is real... think,,, if the room is ready to flashover, wait till it does then tame the monster... HAVE you ever seen a flashover? its a good learning experiance film the burn film the flashover *from outside* duh.... You might learn something.... and you might have a great teaching tool for the future

    well, let me leave this at this point and see what people have to say about it...
    "putting wet stuff on the red stuff over 25 years"

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