08-13-2002, 11:36 AM #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Teetering precariously close to the edge of the earth.
Training related: Entanglement/Disentanglement simulators?....
I guess it's not really a simulator cause you do get tangled up....
Can anyone direct me to any articles or info on entanglement/disentanglement training...we're looking at building a simulator and run some scenarios, with and without the RIT....I realize it's basically a frame with lots of rope and wire hanging down.....I'd like a little more insight than that.
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated..
08-13-2002, 01:45 PM #2
- Join Date
- Jan 2002
- Butler Pa.
I rember a while ago there was a forum about what do you carry in your gear. I was amazed that people dont carry wire cutters with them!! I carry 2 wire cutters A leatherman (hard for me to use) and a Craftman Accu-cut. (I love it) In a smoke filled condition your first impulse is going to be to yank on what ever is intangling you. Dont do it!!! Just try to remain calm and try to remove it from you. Cut it if you have to. My accu-cut can even cut cable. or rope with one cut. They are a little on the big side, but it is very easy for me to use. In todays techno advanced society. You would be amazed what is up in those suppended ceilings. And is not a pretty picture when one of those comes down on you. In your training exercise, Hoze maze, search and resuece, and RIT training, tie rope, cable, wires ect.... around the the mask man and see how he does. It will leave a very big impact on them if they dont have cutters on them.(the will run out and buy some!!!) Hoped thios has helped you a little
08-13-2002, 10:13 PM #3
Check with the Massachusetts State Fire Academy. They have a great one in their training tower.Steve Dragon
FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
Volunteers are never "off duty".
08-13-2002, 10:30 PM #4
The NY State Fire Academy has a very good mask confidence maze that includes a bicycle and mattress springs at the entrance that are made to slow up almost anyone going through. These are common items found in house fires.
Our training officer at work also likes entanglment drills. He takes a snap hook tied to a long lanyard that hooks to a part of our SCBA and snags us several feet from where we got hooked up. It takes a cool head to follow the line back through the maze to the snag and unhook the SCBA. He usually hooks you up in a way that makes you remove the pack to find where to unhook it from. Added to a low profile exercise this makes a good drill."What makes a person run into a building others are running out of?...Character."- Dennis Smith
08-14-2002, 12:39 AM #5
Really the only limits to a simulator of this type is your imagination. It could be as simple as a frame work box with rope or wire hanging from it to a complex prop that includes rafter simulations, a low profile simulation, etc. I would suggest that instead of wire that you use rope in the simulator, and of course in training make the FF's actually disentangle themselves rather than cut their way out.
08-16-2002, 11:36 AM #6
We build ours as needed in an existing SCBA training maze. We drilled holes through the walls at various heights and threaded wire and rope through at many different angles and left varying degrees of slack. For training, we do not allow cutters to be used and do not use smoke. We use a mask that is covered with wax paper to obscure vision, but allows the instructors to watch and teach. Teaching crews to communicate and work together under stress is necessary. Crews that worked with each other to get through consistently do better than those that worked on their own. The "Rat's Nest" is considered the worst part of the maze, but is followed up by a "ceiling collapse" made out of a number of wood pallets with rope and wire also strung through them.
08-16-2002, 02:40 PM #7
The best and cheapest way is that during a maze/wall breach evolution is to have one or two FFs w/ some lengths of rope and they just "rope" the guys training. They either hook the tank or tie one of the FFs up and make the partner untangle them.Member IACOJ & IACOJ EMS Bureau
New England FOOL
As always these are strictly my own opinions and views
08-16-2002, 03:12 PM #8
- Join Date
- Oct 1999
- Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
there is a thread on www.rapidintervention.com/forums regarding something along this line. it is simply pieces of plywood used to simulate walls and window openings. you can get some good ideas from there hopefully.NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.
08-17-2002, 09:32 AM #9
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
My department hosted a Firefighter 1 class last fall. When the SCBA portion of the class came up, we made a maze on the apparatus floor using tables laying on the side with the apparatus still in the building. After a couple of evolutions we decided to entangle some of the students with rope as they went through. The rope was tied off to the apparatus. About half tried to break whatever was holding them by pulling on it. The rest stayed calm and worked themselves or their partner out of the snag.
This is one area that a strong mind will prevail over a strong back.Another lifetime volunteer proud to serve my community.
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