View Poll Results: When do you shut down the road?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Only when it is blocked completely.

    2 15.38%
  • Only the lane that the accident is in.

    2 15.38%
  • The accident lane and adjacent lane.

    5 38.46%
  • We always shut down the road for an MVA with injuries.

    4 30.77%
  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Frederick, MD
    Posts
    37

    Unhappy Shuting down the road

    We recently had a U.S. Park Police officer killed in our area while directing traffic at the scene of an accident, he was struck and killed by a D.U.I. driving by.

    I was wondering what most agencies do, and who makes the decision to shut a road down? It kind of upsets me to think that someone was killed because we didn't want to inconveince the public by shutting down a road.

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    RyanEMVFD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    Why? It's not like you're going to visit me! But I'm near Waco, Texas
    Posts
    2,386

    Default

    if the mvc is on the interstate we will attempt to close down the highway but DPS will not always let us. if the accident is any where else then we close down the road if we can.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA
    Posts
    985

    Default

    We don't really have a policy on closing roads.

    My opinion is you limit access on a road until you have a safe working area for your personnel, whatever that may be.

    The whole "PD refuses to let us shut the road down" thing really baffles me. I have NEVER had an issue with local, county or state law enforcement when needing to shut down traffic lanes for a legitimate reason. That doesn't mean they weren't hovering around, wanting to know the second they could open the road up again.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    SANDSTROMJM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    joisey
    Posts
    251

    Default Forcing the Issue

    Unfortunatly, it takes an act of congress to shut down a road around here, but I wrote an SOP for our Crash Team which has the driver shield the vehicle(scene)and rescuers with the Crash Truck, instantly closing the road.
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ramseycl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Next to the big ditch
    Posts
    489

    Default

    We have never had a problem with shutting down the road. Normally if available the officers rush to the scene to assist. If we need to shut down the road to make the scene safe we do so.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Dalmatian90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    3,120

    Default

    We recently had a U.S. Park Police officer killed in our area while directing traffic at the scene of an accident, he was struck and killed by a D.U.I. driving by.

    I was wondering what most agencies do, and who makes the decision to shut a road down? It kind of upsets me to think that someone was killed because we didn't want to inconveince the public by shutting down a road.


    Shut roads down when neccessary. But not when it's not.

    In my area it's a Fire Department call, and we also handle the traffic control duties. Used to be we only got one Trooper on accidents, now we usually get two -- but still one has to investigate, and it's kinda hard for one trooper to direct traffic or shutdown a highway alone.

    I know it's unusual for the fire service, but in my area it's also not that uncommon for the State Police to request the local volunteer fire departments just to assist with traffic control. We do it once a year or so on incidents we weren't going to otherwise.

    It's not neccessarily an issue of the convience of the public either -- if we can keep traffic moving, it makes it that much faster, safer, and easier for additional units to arrive. Our major roadway carries 17,000 vehicles per day on a two-lane road with no breakdown lanes or shoulders -- if it's closed, additional units have to travel in the opposing traffic lane. That's real fun to do when you're going blind over a hill or around a corner...20mph with lights & sirens going. Much safer to ask for your lane of traffic to be opened up to let you into the scene than travel in the other lane.

  7. #7
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Beersville New Brunswick Canada
    Posts
    16

    Default

    WE always shut the road down . All of the roads around hear are two
    lanes . We found the firefighters running around the rig they seam to forget about the traffic so we shut it down . And when we are done
    we clean up quick . The police seems to be ok with this .

  8. #8
    Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    58

    Default

    Even when you shut down the road you still have to watch out for the real dumb ones. We attended on a fatal MVA (alchol was most definelty a factor in her being hit) where the passenger of a regular cab pick-up was pinned between the "A" and "B" post. While assisting the RCMP with lighting for their collision analyst we had one lane shut down and we were alternating the traffic in the other. We has a guy drive right by all our flares, our rescue truck, around our member in reflective clothing and a visi-vest holding a traffic paddle and a traffic baton, past an RCMP officer and around the actual crash scene until another RCMP officer managed to stop this guy so what the hell his problem was - Guess what? He was ****ed to the gills!! Here we are attending an accident caused be a feaking drunk and another drunk damn near runs down one of my members and an RCMP officer to boot!! Talk about a dumbass!!

    In our area we can shut down the highway if we feel it is neccessary to ensure our saftey. We usually try to keep at least one lane going but sometime it is not possible due to location of the accident.

    Shane

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    NB87JW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    196

    Default

    I have been teaching for years that when we arrive on a MVA (especially on the Interstate) that we block( "close down" ) as many lanes we need to safely operate in PLUS ONE! Giving us a buffer. We stage (park) far enough back from the incident to leave enough room for tools, personnel, transport unit(s) and to protect any "potential" crime scene (debris, skid marks etc...). We block ALL lanes whenever necessary. (I don't even hesitate shutting down lanes if I think we need to) It is "necessary" whenever we land a helicopter on the Highway. Our Troopers hardly ever (on busy days they whine a bit , but cooperate fully) have a problem shutting down the freeway. If we anticipate the need to shut-down the highway we let law enforcement know as soon as we decide we need to to land Airlift. This is a good issue to discuss.

    JW
    Last edited by NB87JW; 08-20-2002 at 02:29 AM.
    "Making Sense with Common Sense"
    Motor Vehicle Rescue Consultants
    ( MVRC@comcast.net) Jordan Sr.

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    80

    Default

    The scene commander has to make sure that not just eveyone at the scene is kept safe but everyone affected by his (or her) decisions is not put at an unacceptable risk either. In many circumstances, closing roads or even lanes on an interstate will cause economic loss that can be predicted and measured and when taken to extreme will cost lives too. Traffic snarl ups affect emergency vehicles too and people with medical conditions who don't have medication with them or assistance available because nobody is moving for five miles in any direction are a problem that needs to be managed too.
    There is more to this thread than I can fit in a quick reply but in general it is no place for egos or an "I'll show them who is in charge" mentality. Get together with your local PD, Highway authority, EMT service, and wrecker companies and sort out protocols and procedures that address everyones legitimate concerns. No one can criticise you for doing things in the best and safest way but as soon as your "always" clashes with someone elses "never" it is time to get qualified advice from the companies who have studied this stuff at national and international level. For those in the States BP Farradyne (I hope I spelled that right) is a great place to start.
    Jim Maclean. IACOJ NZ branch

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Auckland NZ
    Posts
    80

    Default

    shows what happens when you try to do things from memory. It is PB Farradyne and their web site is http://www.pbfarradyne.com/ They sent a guy out here who gave us an excellent seminar series. Good research and facts to back up every suggestion. I am away from my home station but anyone wanting more information can e mail me on jimthefireman@firehousemail.com
    Jim Maclean
    Auckland New Zealand

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA
    Posts
    985

    Default

    [QUOTE]aas soon as your "always" clashes with someone elses "never" it is time to get qualified advice/QUOTE]

    Well said. Communication is paramount.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  13. #13
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Bergen Co, NJ
    Posts
    17

    Post

    The key to many of these interagency issues
    is COMMUNICATION! Emergency services must convey
    their needs, and allow PD's/ State Police to convey
    theirs. More often than not, a little sugar gets
    more results than salt.
    "Now let's be careful out there."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register