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  1. #1
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Post Follow up to "Florida Firefighers Accused"

    Here is the link to a follow up story relating to the story on the home page of Firehouse.com on Friday. It relates to the 3 Florida Firefighters who were accused committing inappropriate acts at the Florida IAFF Convention.

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/17/He..._defends.shtml

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/17/He...als_kne.shtml#
    ------------------------------------
    Cut and pasted letters to the Editor relating to this thread:
    Letters to the Editors


    Editor: Re: Woman accuses 3 firefighters of rape, Aug. 16 Times:

    I am disgusted by the way the allegations are being handled about the woman who accuses the three Spring Hill Fire Rescue District firefighters of rape. Whether or not the police have been able to prove the allegations up until this point is irrelevant. The allegations should be investigated thoroughly and without bias, which I don't feel has been the case. The detective has stated that it is "basically a he-said, she-said and that it was up to the prosecutors to make the final call.

    How can these men call the woman a liar when they fully admit to having what they call consensual sex with her? Just the fact that all these men had said the same thing (that this woman allegedly had a thing for firefighters) should have been enough to set off an alarm and maybe have them stop and think that being intimate with this woman was wrong. How could they not think that what they were doing was anything but taking advantage of this woman, whether or not it was rape. This alone is grounds for suspension.

    Chief J.J. Morrison admitted there is a clause in the policy manual stating that firefighters should be suspended for "immoral or improper conduct or indecency, on or off the job, which would tend to affect employees' relationship to the job, another employee's reputation, trust or goodwill in the community." Can this be spelled out any clearer? These men admitted to being intimate with this woman at a firefighters convention. And some of us feel it was immoral or improper and does affect their trustworthiness in the community. They are Spring Hill firefighters and their actions have affected this community.

    It seems to be that it matters whom you support in the County Commission race, especially for these three firefighters. One of the men, Lt. John Ferriero, had the union he leads throw support behind candidate Robert Kanner for County Commission. And one of the other accused men is Edward Falk, the vice president of the union. I would hope that everyone in our community takes notice of this and remembers how Mr. Kanner has reacted to this situation. Not with an open mind and a willingness to find out the truth and take proper actions, but with an immature, condescending attitude.

    I don't think we would want Mr. Kanner making comments to the papers such as this immature one: "I mean what was she doing in the hotel with all those firefighters?" Maybe Kanner should ask himself what were the firefighters doing in that hotel with the alleged victim?
    -- Samantha Williams, Spring Hill

    Statement would have been irresponsible
    Editor: Re: Woman accuses 3 firefighters of rape, Aug. 16 Times:

    I wish to take the opportunity to clarify my recent statement to your reporter (in the) story about the investigation of three firefighters.

    The story states that I personally doubted the credibility of the complainant. My intent was to refer to the opinion of the investigating detective, not my own personal opinion. When asked the detective if there was cause for the Spring Hill Fire Rescue District commission to act, he advised me to do nothing because he had concerns about the credibility of the complaint due to what he referred to as "inconsistencies." His statements were reported in the same story.

    My intent was to explain why, as a commissioner, I stayed silent publicly. It was at the advice of Detective Smith. Because there were no criminal charges, it was left to Chief J.J. Morrison to deal with administratively. Naturally, I could never share this privately with fellow commissioners without violating the Sunshine Law. To make a public statement in the middle of an investigation -- when advised against it by the investigating officer -- would have been totally irresponsible.
    -- Robert Kanner, Spring Hill
    Last edited by captstanm1; 08-18-2002 at 09:21 AM.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.


  2. #2
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    It has been proven in the past and is still worth rembering--you can stay out of some"embarrassing"situations by keeping your pants Zipped

  3. #3
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    We will remind users these are only accusations and no one has been charged in this case. Comments like the last and that were in the thread before are not appopriate.

    Thanks
    WebTeam

  4. #4
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    WEBTEAM.... I am not certain what comments in the "thread before" youa re referring to. I did not make the comments...rather I posted "letters to the editor" that related to the story.

    I am in agreement with you though... There have been no charges and the purpose of this post was not to point fingers, rather be informational as to what is happening around the country.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  5. #5
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    Our comments were not directed at the post, but the reply about 'keeping pants zipped'

    WebTeam

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    Default zipped

    Webteam having spent time in the USAF and been around awhile, There's an old statement whether you've been in the tail hook club,around the corner,or anywhere else (and you are a man) I thought it was a good reminder.I did not mean to infer that they were in any way guilty ,they did have sex according to the article. SORRY to have OFFENDED you by my statement.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    Captstanm1

    Thank you for posting the information. I was actually going to ask the WT if it could be reposted after the previous thread was removed.

    Personally I think it is completely reprehensible that these men's names, ranks and IAFF affiliation has been released to the public, while her name is being witheld due to the 'nature of the allegation'. If there is a publication ban placed on an investigation, then it should apply to all parties concerned. I understand it in cases which involve juvenielle's, but that is not the case here.

    These men's lives have been permanently tarnished regardless of the outcome of the investigation.

  8. #8
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Temptaker...I agree...I think the release of the names of the individuals, male or female, during the investigation is premature and inappropriate. Regardless of what may have happened, nothing has been proven and no charges placed at this time.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  9. #9
    Forum Member MOTOWN88's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if the City released the names and affiliation or the Press using the evil little tool called the "Freedom of information act" which they use and abuse a little too much?????
    I.A.C.O.J IRISH TATTOOED-HOOLIGAN

    DETROIT FIRE FIGHTER AND PROUD!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    Motown

    From the original article It appears that it was a FD Chief that released the information to the press, just before the police report was to be released.

  11. #11
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    AFter much hoopla (did I make up that word??) and media attention as well as what "appears" to be political involvement, the three firefighters were suspended with pay pending the outcome of the investigation of the allegations. Additionally, there seems to be talk of a pending Internal Affairs Investigation that will be conducted by a private 3rd party. The scandal emerges as a current Fire Commission Member runs for County Commission and on the brink of a referendum that will give the Fire and Rescue District it's autonomy if approved in November.

    These are related links.

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/20/He...hters_su.shtml

    http://www.hernandotoday.com/MGAVSE1Z25D.html

    http://www.hernandotoday.com/MGATJY2Z25D.html

    http://www.hernandotoday.com/MGA9SW9YZ4D.html

    There was an additional story in the St. Petersburg Times today, where one of the County Commissioners called for the dismissal of the Fire Commissioner who made "inappropriate" comments relating to the charges. This Commissioner had been appointed by the County Commissioners to fill a seat vacated by a recent resignation. I can not find a link to that story....sorry
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  12. #12
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Post UPDATE

    The alleged victim speaks out in support of the Fire Dept.

    http://www.hernandotoday.com/MGAI1QQD45D.html
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  13. #13
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    More from today's news

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/21/He...s_up_uni.shtml

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/21/He..._bosses_.shtml

    CaptStan Thanks for posting the other links.

    I thought that past bad deeds were inadmissible, I'm talking about the domestic violence charges, which were subsequently dropped. If charges are laid, I fail to see how they are going to find a jury that can be objective in their deliberation.
    Last edited by Temptaker; 08-21-2002 at 09:20 PM.

  15. #15
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    Hey captstanm1, this is only my opinion, but I believe you do a disservice to everyone on these forums by continuing to write about, attach copies of or using info obtained from an anti union, anti fire department RAG NEWSPAPER that's not even worth putting on the bottom of a bird cage. They continue to print misinformation, for shock value only, even when given accurate info by a department. When and IF the truth is finally printed it's usually to late to change public opinion. The times forced this story to be made public, causing political decisions to be made based on public opinion, not on public safety. ( It's what they do best). Even when a headline seems sympothetic or supportive, they will go on to attack members who HAVE NOT EVEN BEEN CHARGED, even so much so as to dig into their pasts to the point of where they went to high school WHY ?. I do not work for or with the Spring Hill fire dept. but I do live here in Spring Hill, and do not see how public safety has been achieved by suspending three members, WHO HAVE NOT BEEN CHARGED, of a dept. that alresdy has substandard staffing levels. (but thats another issue). If after a poilce dept investigation, (not the SP.Times investigation), these members are charged with a crime, than dicipline may be in order. Captstanm1 you know where I work, and its a regular target of the Times, which is why i'm so critical of this RAG PAPER and it's campaign of mis information. Its my opinion only .

  16. #16
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    axeyaz

    I don't agree with any of what has transpired and I firmly believe that these guys are getting railroaded and wonder if it could have even been a set up.

    I certainly don't support the views of the paper in this case or other controversial issues surrounding the county departments and the City of Brooksville. But I support Chief Morrison for his suspension with pay. From a supervisors standpoint I look at it this way. Just like in a sexual harassmant charge...these folks have daily contact with the public and they interact with them for medical reasons. There is a certain liability for the department to continue to let them have patient contact due to the nature of the "charges." I am in full support of these guys until they are formally charged, have a trial and the outcome of the trial is final. Innocent until proven guilty....that is the American way. Even if they are charged, tried and convicted...the entire thing smells funny to me and reaks of political stench based on a race for county commission.

    I am just passing on this information to the members of the fire service community in an effort to educate all as to what dangers lie out there....outside of the norm...


    Another article in yesterday's paper indicated the treasurer and secretary of the IAFF Local will be temproarily at the helm until the matter is resolved.

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/22/He..._events_.shtml

    http://www.hernandotoday.com/MGAC1BZU55D.html

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/21/He..._bosses_.shtml
    Last edited by captstanm1; 08-22-2002 at 08:50 AM.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  17. #17
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    Captstanm1 the only thing the fire service community will learn is what is written in that RAG PAPER, regardles if its true or not. As far as the nature of the "charges" as you state, THERE HAVE BEEN NO CHARGES. only allegations. And thanks to the SP.TIMES they have been tried and convicted in the paper. Remember immoral is not the same as illegal. My point is that the SP.TIMES will attack any fire dept. or union as part of their standard practice, and we should not be posting their classless garbage on these forums as a respect to all our brothers who have to deal with the aftermath of such trash reporting. And I dont work for Hernando or Brooksville, i'm with Clearwater ( 48 truck ) Be safe and stay out of the TIMES. Just my opinion.

  18. #18
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Post More Information

    Instead of posting what the paper says, I will just say that the saga continues. Although I do not agree that the paper has prosecuted and convicted the firefighters. I feel the major concern here is how the whole incident was handled. Their problem is with action or inaction by the fire board. I suspect if you were to start a poll and ask how other departments would have handled the initial complaint you would see the response was much different.

    The Fire Board met on Saturday in an Emergency Session to discuss policy for investigating problems with department members in the future.

    Additionally, local news reports today published other information relating to the continued support of the commissioner who is running for County office and there was also a story relating to what led to the accuser being allowed to do a project on the fire department in the first place.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  19. #19
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Post Citizens group wants woman involved in internal investigation

    In today's news a citizens group is asking for a woman to be involved in the investigation. Keep in mind as you read this that THERE HAVE BEEN NO CHARGES PLACED.....ONLY ALLEGATIONS and these brothers are innocent until proven guilty. I certainly do not advocate what happened...but if you go back and follow the entier story...somewhere you will find a political connection. Then entire scenario smells of political stench to me... Additionally, (as AXEYAz has pointed out) it is quite obvious to me that the Newpapers are not friendly to the Fire Departments and are using this opportunity to take shots at the departments. However...it appears to me that the underlying story in each article has "politics" written all over it.

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/28/He...woman_to.shtml

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/28/He...ire_boar.shtml


    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/28/He...uct_not_.shtml
    Last edited by captstanm1; 08-28-2002 at 10:08 AM.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  20. #20
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Post

    Fire Department Developing Policy on Investigations

    http://www.sptimes.com/2002/08/30/He...iry_plan.shtml
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
    ------------------------------
    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
    "Purple Hydrant" Recipient (3 Times)
    BMI Investigator
    ------------------------------
    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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