View Poll Results: Is selling the FDNY/NYPD swag out of control?

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  • Yes.

    17 68.00%
  • No.

    2 8.00%
  • Somewhat, but dying off.

    5 20.00%
  • I dont care, show me the money.

    1 4.00%
  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Making $$$ off of dead Firefighters...

    We had this heated discussion at work. I flat out
    cant take much more of all of this 9/11, WTC
    product advertising. (shirts, bracelets, etc) As
    someone at work said, "These people are making
    money off of dead Firefighters and Cops." Have you
    seen Ebay alone???

    YES, YES, YES, I COMPLETLY UNDERSTAND SOME OR MOST
    OF THIS MONEY IS GOING TO CHARITY AND A GOOD CAUSE.
    But, some people are flat out gettin' paid.

    What do you think? Charity? Commerce? The American
    Way? Maybe you folks already discussed this and I
    missed it. And lastly, I know there isnt much I/we
    can do about this, but I had to say something.

    "I just couldnt let it go Bull!" -Axe, 1991
    Last edited by CAFFBOU; 08-22-2002 at 04:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    boukca-
    I agree 100%!!! Now it's the remembering the anniversery crap that makes me sick!!! And the closer we get to Sept. 11th the worse it's going to get.
    Very few of these companies are giving to charities and if they are they increased the price to cover the loss!!!
    Also do your home work on the charities out there because so many of them are scams.
    IAFF member, Love this job! Remember the oath!

  3. #3
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    I started a thread on this topic about a month ago. Nobody ever responded. I think the event and FDNY have become a sort of "sacred cow." If you question anything to do with it, you are jumped on by every self-righteous firefighter around. I do wonder how many people have made bucks off of the tragedy. Only a few claim to give part of the proceeds to some cause or the other....and then it's only a mere 5% or so. I just can't WAIT for the book sales and movies to start.

  4. #4
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    The thing that REALLY gets me, is that not only are we bombarded in our regular email accounts with these distasteful offers as the anniversary draws near, but recently we also geting promograms from this site too. I just can't believe that only 10% of the sales of the Flag Raising Ceremony posters are going to charity!!! And 10% divided between 3 charities is a measly 3.3% each!!!! You would think that this one group in particular would do the right thing. Surely it doesn't take 80% of profits to produce these posters

    "Show The Stripes Of Our
    Finest Moment In History.

    No other image captures more drama and courage of September 11th than these firemen raising our symbol of freedom. By hanging the flag proudly above the rubble, these men united a nation and made the statement; "Life in America will go on."

    Ten Percent of the proceeds generated by the sale of this artwork will be donated to The Bravest Fund, the North Jersey Media Group Disaster Relief Fund, and the Postal Workers Heroes Fund."
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  5. #5
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    Unhappy It is truly sad..........

    The proliferation of 9-11 memorabilia is outrageous. While some funds are indeed going to deserving charities, there are some real scams out there that do nothing but take your money and pocket it!

    I have to wonder....did people start selling hats, pins, posters, t-shirts, flags...and other items, when Pearl Harbor was attacked? Granted, we immediately got involved in WW 2...but were there scam artists at work in 1941 also? I would like to hear from anyone who was around at the time.

    Today....the only place you really see items being sold that depict the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Arizona, etc., is at the site in Hawaii. And that money goes to preserve the memorials there. It is controlled by the US Park Service, I believe.

    Go visit the area around Ground Hero....and you'll see a variety of "entrepreneurs"...hawking everything you can imagine. And they keep ALL the money. Shameless, greedy little people, that's what they are. And yes....it's only going to get worse, as we approach the anniversary.

    Forgive them brothers...they know not how to honor our heroes. They only know how to make a buck.
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

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  6. #6
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    Unhappy

    Related story

    NEW YORK (AP) - With cameras and binoculars, hundreds of people
    crowd along a chain-link fence at any given time to peer into the
    16-acre World Trade Center site. There is little to see during this
    lull between recovery and redevelopment.
    Yet people still come.
    "The very vacantness of this space is a memorial in itself,"
    Alice Atilla, a publicist visiting from Washington, D.C., said as
    she gazed into the seven-story-deep chasm. "The nothingness
    memorializes the people lost."
    There is work going on now at ground zero, but it involves
    subway and rail service underground, and much is out of sight from
    the street.
    Visitors say the empty expanse helps them to grasp the magnitude
    of the Sept. 11 attacks.
    "This is where it happened. It doesn't matter if there are
    monuments here or it's in a state of reconstruction," said Lance
    Sussman, a rabbi from Cheltenham, Pa., who came with his wife on
    their 25th wedding anniversary. "I'm sure people went to
    Gettysburg before the monuments were built there."
    Almost from the moment the twin towers crumbled to gray dust,
    claiming more than 2,800 lives, crowds thronged the narrow streets
    of lower Manhattan, trying to catch a glimpse of the smoking
    rubble.
    Eventually the city built special viewing platforms and issued
    nearly 1.1 million passes during the six months they were open,
    according to the city's tourism board.
    The fences around St. Paul's Chapel, an 18th-century church near
    the site, are festooned with hundreds of flags, messages of hope,
    patriotic poetry and pieces of clothing inscribed with the
    signatures of volunteer recovery workers from around the country.
    Sidewalk vendors continue to hawk souvenirs and memorabilia,
    ranging from FDNY baseball caps and T-shirts to photo books with
    titles like "Day of Terror."
    For some neighborhood residents, the public fascination is
    hurtful. On a sign reading "No vendors," someone scrawled an
    indignant postscript: "Tourists, stop treating this site like an
    amusement park. It is holy ground. Lives were lost here."
    In response, "Shazmir, Detroit, Mich.," wrote: "We know,
    that's why we come to pay tribute to the lives that were
    sacrificed. Remember, everyone experienced a loss."
    Many visitors are foreign, as eager as Americans to see what was
    shown on television around the world. Languages from Russian to
    Japanese can be heard in the streets.
    "I was last here when the buildings stood," Guillermo Perez,
    of the Dominican Republic, said through a translator. "I'd seen so
    many photographs of what happened here, but now it is clear that I
    didn't really understand. I see great sadness here."
    For the city, visitors are welcome - particularly since tourism
    is only now recovering after tumbling 15 percent after the attack.
    Despite the tourists, lower Manhattan's economy suffers; the
    commercial vacancy rate is around 15 percent, twice the rate of a
    year ago.
    A clothing store that became a draw after the owner enclosed
    shelves of dust-covered jeans and sporting wear behind glass as an
    impromptu museum of 9-11 is set to go out of business at the end of
    September.
    Not all the viewers are tourists. People forced to vacate
    offices close to the trade center are returning, even now. The Wall
    Street Journal moved back into its quarters just last month.
    "I'm coming back to my office at the World Financial Center for
    the first time at the end of the month," said Dow Jones executive
    Jim Ottaway Jr., of New Paltz, N.Y., gazing at the expanse across
    the street. "I wanted to see what it will feel like to overlook
    this every day."
    ---
    On the Net:
    Lower Manhattan Development Corp.: http://www.renewnyc.com/

    (Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  7. #7
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    I think the event and FDNY have become a sort of "sacred cow." If you question anything to do with it, you are jumped on by every self-righteous firefighter around.
    What does this have to do with this subject?

    boukca I agree 100%. I am tiered of people making money off my dead friends.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
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    I agree with you guys totally. If all profits benefit the widows and childrens fund then i would be all for it but the way things are now it's just rediculus.

  9. #9
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    Folks, I'm as sympathetic about this as you are but this is America, (Capitalism, if you will) and unfortunately we can't have it both ways. It will always be unless Socialism takes over completely. Do you really want that?
    Bob Compton
    IACOJ-Proud
    IACOJ-HALL OF FAME-2003

  10. #10
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    Thumbs up Thanks people!

    Glad to get some backing on this one. One thing I
    forgot to mention is that my previous, one station
    department sold FDNY T-shirts and donated 100% to
    a FDNY fund. It was only 6 thousand dollars that we
    donated, but I am glad we made a dent. (little dent)

  11. #11
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    Originally posted by ENG 6511
    Folks, I'm as sympathetic about this as you are but this is America, (Capitalism, if you will) and unfortunately we can't have it both ways. It will always be unless Socialism takes over completely. Do you really want that?
    No, I don't want socialism, just a little respect for the murdered. Anybody who uses our dead brothers to make a buck deserves an asskicking!



    boukca, check your private messages.
    Living the dream...

  12. #12
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    Ok you guys know how I feel about the WTC attacks, my heart still bleeds, I cried rivers of tears for weeks, no months after. I still cry occassionally when I come across an article, website or email that touches me deeply. And with the anniversary fast approaching I will undoubtedly cry a lot more.

    No, I didn't know anyone personally, but I certainly gained a new appreciation and respect for the Firefighters who protect the building and city that I live in, all Firefighters world wide, and not least of all the grieving brothers of FDNY.

    I treasure my new affiliation with the local Fire Community, which came about from my taking a letter of appreciation to the Fire Station I live across from in November (not being able to help in person or financially in those first few weeks tormented me immensely, this was the next best thing) and then later on taking a plea from FDNYRR to the Station for help with the Flag Raising Ceremony Sculpture Petition. On that occasion I was fortunate enough to meet and talk with a Captain that ultimately got me involved with the Calgary Firefighters Museum Society, through which I have gained an even deeper appreciation for all Firefighters, past and present, as well as having the opportunity to meet many new friends.

    Now to the real reason of this post LOL ... as I was catching up on the replies since I posted yesterday I came to a realization ..... yes, these people that purposely, disgustingly sell these items are PIGS, but WHO are they reaping their profits from? Are there actually millions of Joe/Jill America, Joe/Jill Wanna-be/Pretender/Braggart (eg. the imposter in FF gear or the father/son that worked at Ground Hero and took home souvenirs) and tourists from other countries out there that are buying this S**T from the vendors on the streets of New York, or from the internet or from wherever?? These people deserve our derision as well right???

    I'm not including in the above statements firefighters, rescue workers, fire departments and/or civilians who purchase items as a genuine means of honoring the victims, (eg. the Patch suggested I think by a FF in LA, for FF only) IF and ONLY IF they know where (and how much of) the funds are going. Again, I have to go back to what I refered to in my previous post ..... most of them only give 10 MEASLY PERCENT or LESS to the charities/funds they are collecting on behalf of. And what hope do we have, really, of ANY charity distributing the PROPER amount of funds raised to the recipients intended by the person donating, if as my previous post indicated, the three FF that raised our hopes along with the American Flag are a party to such an insult as the 10% indicates????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Well, anyway, I guess that's enough venting (ummm rambling lol) for now, I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say.

    I will never forget.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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    I agree with this post 100 per cent. Coming from a small rural community in Central Illinois, I'm thousands of miles away from Ground Zero but still feel the pain of the loss. I can't believe those that died in the towers that day would have in any way wanted to believe that their death would result in profits for a bunch of wh***s, interested only in making a profit from the tragedy that befell them and their family. Rough words but that's what many people have become over this tragedy. Those that rushed into that building that day were trying to save the life of someone. Trying to save the life of someone who had a spouse or child at home. Trying to save someone from a life of pain and bad memories. They weren't trying to create a profit for some street vendor or a major corporation. I see the advertisements for memoriabilia of 9-11 and feel sad. Not just because of those that gave all but at the thought of the low life that's making a profit from it. My feeling is for some of these major dealers in this merchandise to say that enough is enough. Feel sad...yes. Feel their pain...yes. Feel the pain of those left behind...yes. Make a profit from their death...NO!

  14. #14
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    FF1798 great post. How many times have you just not been able to say all that you want to say on here, and then someone comes along and posts just what you are thinking??!!!

    Too bad everyone couldn't think and act the way most of these forum uses do. Don't you just want to stand up and shout to the world "DON'T BUY THIS **** .... CAPITALISM BE DAMMED WE ARE TALKING ABOUT RESPECT AND DECENCY HERE"

    These VULTURES wouldn't profit if people wouldn't buy from them!!!

    Sigh ......
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

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    To RspctFrmCalgary...

    The sad part of it is that many people have the thought or the good intent that by buying the bracelet, hat, shirt,...etc, that they are actually helping out. Their heart is in the right place, they are trying to remember those fallen. Unfortunately, their money goes into the pockets of the scum making a buck and not to the wife who gave birth to the baby that will never know her father because he died in one of the towers.(Or at least not very much money... I won't add her name to embarrass her). Her story was posted a long time ago.

    I'm somewhat guilty. I have a couple of t-shirts in memory that I bought back in 09-01. I wear them in memory today, proud to be a part of the brotherhood that gave all that day. At the same time, I'm disgusted by the 'Fire Department' that sold them. Not all the profits from that sale went to the widows and children.

  16. #16
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    and therein lies the problem .... Sigh .....

    Hey! you did it again ... saying what I'm thinking but can't seem to get into words

    Do I think you are "bad" for buying those t-shirts ...... NO!!! ABSOLUTLEY NOT!! Wish I knew your first name so I could be more convincing, but FF1798 .... NO!!!!!! You should not feel "guilty" at all. You're probably wondering why I can say that about one person and not the other .... I don't know. Maybe its because you are in the Fire Service (I think). I guess it just really affected me when I read about vendors hawking 9-11 paraphenilia <> on the streets of Manhattan, plus getting all these email ads over the past few months ... hmmm come to think of it, they have never stopped since the attacks. Some legitimate, some heartbreaking (If You Could Only See), some frauds. Its just that on any given day/month (crying .... omg a year .... soon to be years but I will never forget) something I see or hear will affect me differently. But it does affect me. Whether a political announcement like Bush reneging (sp) on the money for the grants (okok they screwed up trying to sneak other crap in on the bill), the new videos brought to light the past few days with all their horrors, the heartbreaking articles on firehouse.com about the widows, fathers, sons, mothers, brothers, funerals, loss, family, mutts, political crap, appropriate memorial, redevelopment, searching endlessly, hopelessly for lost loved ones, some to be found, some not to be, the unspeakable horrors that all the brave FF, rescuers, Ground Hero workers had to endure, survival ...... the brotherhood, the support worldwide, the lessons to be learned from this nightmare (hopefully), the bull***t

    sigh ....... hope you get the picture

    Well anyway, I do agree with you that most of the people that buy something to commemorate or remember the attacks have good intentions and their hearts are certainly in the right place. I guess I'm just being pessimistic tonight.

    Since I seem to be rambling on quite a bit again, if you'd like to continue this conversation by PM instead of here, please feel free.
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  17. #17
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    "I think the event and FDNY have become a sort of "sacred cow." If you question anything to do with it, you are jumped on by every self-righteous firefighter around."

    It seems as if a lot of firefighters or "firebuffs" are wearing the WTC and FDNY tragedy on their sleeves too often. There are guys I know who buy tons of the WTC/FDNY memorbilia without ever questioning where the proceeds go, or how much. Seems like most of the ads I see only donate a meager 5 or 10% to some "fund" or the other. They usually don't even state which fund in particular they are assisting. I have as much sympathy and respect for the firefighters who lost their lives as anyone. I, myself, lost a dear friend and partner battling a housefire this Spring. But, I am tired of people buying FDNY stuff just so they can have the newest Tshirt to wear to meeting night at the firehall this month. Seems as if they are only wearing these things to support their own egos and say, "Hey, look at me! I'm a firefighter, just like the FDNY guys!" Bring up one ounce of constructive criticism about the fire service (which we ALL need from time to time) and these guys go off on some self-rightous tirade. Are there people making big bucks off dead firefighters? Yeah. Are we, as firefighters, the ones buying most of it, without questioning the intentions of the people who make it? Yep. Remember; many firefighters from all around the world have died, and continue to die, in the line of duty. Where are their Tshirts? It's sad that such a terrible incident has been reduced to a trendy fad. I mean, really....even JC Penney is selling FDNY hats and such.

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