Leather ?

**WFDjr1** · 08-28-2002, 05:11 PM

I was planning on ordering a leather lid, and our department's bylaws require that the helmet be NFPA approved. Is a Cairn's New Yorker NFPA approved? I was on thefirestore.com and didn't see where it said it wasn't NFPA approved, but I'm just making 100% sure before I order. Thanks.

**Neman13** · 08-28-2002, 07:20 PM

Yes some N5A’s are, If it has the New Impact Dome and Goggles that are NFPA approved your in good shape. This same Question has been asked many times in the past, look back a few weeks and you will get a better understanding.

P.S. This Question will have all the Forum’s Lawyers off and running.

Good Luck

**TC33FF** · 08-28-2002, 07:51 PM

THE N5A IS ONLY OSHA APPROVED. THE N6A SAM HOUSTON IS THE ONLY CAIRNS LEATHER NFPA APPROVED HELMET. I HAVE THE CAIRNS CATALOG IN FRONT OF ME. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE N5A HAS A IMPACT CAP OR NOT. THE NEW OSHA RULES REQUIRE ONE. NFPA REQUIRES A THICKER ONE. GOGGLES DOES NOT MAKE THE N5A NFPA APPROVED EITHER. GO TO MSA'S WEBSITE TO FIND OUT MORE INFO AND SEE THE CATALOG. WFD HAS BEEN MISINFORMED I BELIEVE.
CHRIS

**EUitts** · 08-28-2002, 07:52 PM

A Cairns New Yorker (N5A) is not NFPA approved, however a Cairns Sam Houston (N6A) is NFPA approved.

The major difference is in the impact cap that Neman mentioned. A Sam Houston (N6A) has an extra layer of material to protect against sharp objects penetrating the cap, but the New Yorker (N5A) does not have this extra layer. Either the New Yorker or the Houston are available with a range of eye/face protection options, but to be compliant, NFPA compliant eye/face protection must be on the helmet.

Personally, I don't believe that the Sam Houston is that much safer than a New Yorker because it carries the nod of the NFPA. In the unfortunate event of a piece of building landing on your helmet, I doubt how much of a difference an extra layer of the impact cap will make, and I don't feel that any one means of eye protection is adequate for any and all situations we encounter. However this topic is along the same lines of the debate over colors of fire apparatus...it has been going on for years, and probably will continue for years to come.

**CAFFBOU** · 08-28-2002, 08:16 PM

Do you think having all that extra weight on your
mellon makes you a better Firefighter? Get a
light weight Phenix First Due. It is NFPA approved
and widely used in the western US. Here is the link-

http://www.thefirestore.com/cgi-bin/...nix/xcatalog?z

I am going to catch heat for this, but thats my job.

**blancety** · 08-28-2002, 08:31 PM

.......ignoring the tupperware guy from CA..........

The only difference between the N6A and N5A in that the 6A has an additional layer of kevlar for enhanced penetration protection. The impact caps are the same otherwise. To be compliant it must also have the goggles or full face shield.

Of course the 6A does weigh more than the 5A, so it must provide more protection, right?

Dave

PS...Boucka, all in good fun Brother

**TailboardJockey** · 08-28-2002, 11:40 PM

Leather Forever!

This Californian is a proud N6A wearer! Please disregard my brother from Cali with the pencil neck!

boukca, puhleeeze stop drinking that bong water!

**CAFFBOU** · 08-29-2002, 01:26 AM

Too bad I am forced to wear the Cairns "head bucket"
with Borks (dorks). Hey Explorer, when you figure out
why having all of the extra weight on your head makes
you a better Firefighter, you email me, ok?

Here is the good stuff-

**TailboardJockey** · 08-29-2002, 01:51 AM

**FFMcDonald** · 08-29-2002, 05:06 AM

Hey boukca --

When you figure out why having that Phenix on your head makes
you a better Firefighter, you email ME, ok?

I guess all those FF's in San Francisco must be 'Bad' firefighters because they wear leather; what about Boston?? They must be bad too?? Ohh -- we can't drag FDNY into the fray - they wear Ben Franklin II's....

If it's approved- then it's approved. If the kid wants to spend his money on a leather lid -- well then - it's his money to spend.

I'm glad someone took him under their wing - and led him to the information that he needed, and answered his question. Rather than just flame him.....

**90Truck** · 08-29-2002, 12:34 PM

hey, boukca! open mouth, insert foot! WFD, yes the info above is correct, the N5A is not NFPA, but the houston is. and for the record, i don't where a leather b/c it makes me a better firefighter, i wear it b/c I LIKE IT and I THINK ITS COMFORTABLE!!! i guess i know where to come if i want someone elses opinion rammed down my esophogus........whatever you choose, be it tupperware, cow, or fake cow, they are ALL (repeat) ALL great helmets. its all up to what YOU like. good luck! peace!

**HalliganHook25** · 08-29-2002, 01:43 PM

You know...it's only SOUTHERN California that wears the Phoenix Helemets, and as they say MOST things down there are made out of plastic (or silicone) :-)

Things are just better up here.

The best helmets are G5's, if you cant wear those, then pre-rachet N6's are the next best thing.

**captstanm1** · 08-30-2002, 08:55 AM

LOL...what a discussion over such a simple question. ok...my $0.04 worth....

I have looked at the Phoenix and think they are a poor imitation...sorry boucka..

I just ordered a N6A for my son who is also a Virginia Firefighter. Got his with the Bourque Eye Shields installed and the Goggles...That makes it compliant.. As far as weight...well...as I tell my boss (who hates leather helmets)..."Real Firefighters have enough neck to hold em up!"

**SPFDRum** · 08-30-2002, 10:55 AM

I must be a phony fire fighter, as well as most of us in the midwest, not a lot of leather around here.

**resqcapt** · 08-30-2002, 01:38 PM

as well as most of us in the midwest, not a lot of leather around here.

Don't know about that, plenty of dead cow on heads and feet in this part of the midwest.

Steve

**WFDjr1** · 08-30-2002, 04:30 PM

Boukca... If I wanted a salad bowl, I would be looking in the cabinet, not buying one off the internet.

"Real Firefighters have enough neck to hold em up!" LOL, I HAVE TO AGREE!

If the NY'er isn't NFPA compliant, how about the Ben Franklin II?

**90Truck** · 08-30-2002, 04:40 PM

compliant yes, leather, no!! its a pleather, a fake cow. i have one of those also at the other dept. i run at, and its a very nice helmet. if you REALLY want leather though, try the cairn's houston. THE ONLY NFPA compliant leather helmet (i think??)!!

Boukca... If I wanted a salad bowl, I would be looking in the cabinet, not buying one off the internet.

WFD- ROFLMFAO!!!!! thats rich!!

**WFDjr1** · 08-30-2002, 05:07 PM

Ben-2 + Leather Shield (with the number and rank and all that) + Glo-Flex Tetrahedrons = $261!!! Sounds good to me, I think I'm gonna go for it, even if it isn't leather.

But for one FINAL question (I promise!): What is the difference between the Ben-2 and a Bullard Firedome Freedom?

**STATION2** · 08-30-2002, 05:54 PM

And to think Boukca, you had the %^&* to say that I owe you an apology in another forum on Sutphen apparatus. You OWE everyone who is on here an apology for intentionally subjecting us all to your continual comments for no other reason than to stir the pot. Debate over issues is healthy if done with an open mind and an even head and reason. But yours are done solely to provoke agrument. As for the leather helmet, wear one before you bash them. Owe I forgot, your a vetern of the Northern California fire service blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Half the people on these forums half more time in the fire service than you have on this earth. If you want to discuss and debate than do that. Don't provoke a "not so nice" reply and then cry that everyone is mean to you and owe you an apology. If your a fire fighter (Which I doubt) act like one.

As for the Ben Helmets mentioned previously, they are in fact NFPA approved. An interesting comment on those if I may. My career department issued those and a selling point was that they could be driven over by a chiefs car and pop right back into shape. Now I don't know about you, but I don't want anything on my head that gives with an impact and then rebounds to its original shape because my head doesn't. Additionally, they ride extremely high on your head when wearing a nomex hood and Reed hood. Makes for a very awkward working situation to say the least.

The Ben II, yes they are NFPA compliant.

As for the N6A, it is by far the best helmet on the market. It is costly, but well worth it. My volunteer department still issues N6A's and leather boots to all members. Never seen one fail or compromise the wearers safety. I have seen and helped a few burn, but they last and do the job.

**E229Lt** · 08-30-2002, 07:18 PM

Are you required to buy your own equipment?

Do you have money to burn?

Do you presently not have a helmet?

If you answered yes to any of the above, go get a helmet. If not use what you have.

The key to being a good firefighter is not the helmet you wear but the gray matter the helmet protects. If your department issued you gear, use it. Worst case scenario, you get hurt due to an equipment failure, if you bought it, they wash their hands of you.

$.02 from a cynic.

Most Popular

Thread: Leather ?

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display

Leather ?

Forget the leahter....

Oh geezzz....

ouch

Ben II

A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS AND A POINT

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

Posting Permissions