1. #1
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    Default SFFD "The Bravest"

    I'm watching tonights episode and SFFD aren't wearing bunker pants in a structure fire. Just wondering why? Also, on their engine units the FF's stand on the truck in the middle. It's all open so when it rains they get soaking wet? Or can they cover it somehow?

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    i thought the same thing. hopefully i missed something somewhere

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    Some one feel free to correct me but as I understand it:

    San Francisco used to (I believe they have now changed) wear wool pants. Wool is inherently fire retardant, thus eliminating the need for bunker pants.

    As for the open riding area, maybe it was an old truck...or maybe they only used it on suny days . Dunno 'bout that one.

    Dave

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    This topic has been thrown around before, the SFFD has the option of wearing bunkers.
    As for the standing, we saw in one episode the squad almost get taken out by someone who blew through an intersection. While it may be fun, cool or whatever they need to be in seatbelts preferably in an inclosed area. (not that I wouldn't enjoy it myself) You just can't argue in favor of standing while responding, or just cruising.

    Since it has been started again, how is Boston's trial going?

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    Yes...this subject was on here before and if my memory serves me correctly a couple SFFD folks came on here and ripped the comments pretty good.

    HFD66Truck is correct. I think we learned that from previous threads and they are not offering an option of bunker pants I believe.

    As far as standing on that "Squad"...I have seen that unit in many different episodes and they always stand in the back. If you look closely at the cab as it leaves the station you will see that is is an old unit. I would wager that when they replace it they will discontinue standing.
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

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    In Late july An order came out, you may wear the following options.

    Full bunker gear, with pants or shorts
    3/4 boots with coat and FR pants
    Steel toe work boots with coat and FR pants.

    I wear the work boot option during the day, and the 3/4 boot at night. We have had no problems with these options.
    ** The opionions are mine and mine alone, they are not that of my dept or the local**

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    Okay, they may be wool pants, but they are thin. If your crawling around in a house or at a car wreck, etc. your going to get cut pretty bad. I guess these kinds of pants are OSHA approved??

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    This topic comes up every time they run an episode, so here's the long and short of it.

    The rig where they're standing is Rescue 2. There is a new unit that will be coming on line soon that will eliminate the outside standing (perhaps it is already in use- I dunno, haven't been down that way in a while.) We only have 2 engines in regular service with open cabs the rest are closed. =no standing.

    Wool pants have been officially banned from fire scenes. We must now take the extra time to get into our turnouts for every bldg alarm, street box, etc. where a fire might be. This is a recent policy change. In my opinion it slows our response time a bit because we have to get out of our station pants and boots and into the bunkers. (ever wear wool under bunker pants?)

    We used to wear wools, mostly during the day, and used turnouts at night because of the ease of getting into them. The wools were great for truck work (climbing ladders, working on steep roofs etc.) because they allowed great mobility. But for interior attack they kinda sucked because you'd be laying in a river of hot water and crawling on debris etc. Your legs could get pretty beat up. HOWEVER, I would really rather wear my wools anyway. It's a total bummer when you have to do 15+ flights in a high rise completely wrapped in turnout gear to find out someone burnt popcorn in the kitchen, or was steam cleaning right under an optical sensor. Or jump into your turnout pants 5 times in a row for a false street box that some kid pulled while walking home from school.

    Oh well. I suppose if I didn't know the difference I wouldn't have anything to complain about. Oh, wait, I don't have anything to complain about- I've got the best job there is.

    Just for future reference- each time "The Bravest" is shown, there is usually a post the next day or two about how "so and so department" does things. A quick search through the archives will usually result in having your questions answered.

    Stay safe.

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    Default Thanks Boney

    Not critizing, just curious. Anyway, thanks for info.

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    Default T H E B R A V E S T

    Things that stuck in my mind after seeing that episode:

    I was astounded to see firefighters standing up in the back of a moving fire truck in the year 2002ish (whenever it was filmed). How is this any different from riding the tailboard? I guess its ok until someone gets hurt...

    Not that I'm a truck co. expert or anything, but if I recall correctly, they weren't wearing packs on the roof. Not that you always have to be breathing air, but I don't think it would be a bad idea to atleast have one on your back--especially if you're the one cutting.

    As far as gear goes... I'd rather show up overdressed and as protected as possible, then to not and get hurt (or waste time putting on gear). You can always shed the excess, but its hard to add what you left behind at the station.

    And the wooden ladders... the benefits are what? Aside from being mostly non-conductive... what else? Honest question.

    I'm not being critical, either... just commenting on what I saw and what my thoughts are.

    The helmets... NOW I'm being critical (lol, maybe I'd better not go there... )

    I'm sure if a crew from THE BRAVEST rode with our department:
    A. You'd sleep through the episode
    and
    2. You'd have dozens of questions as to "why'd they do so-and-so" in the event something actually happened.

    That's what is great about these forums... we get to exchange information on such things.
    Last edited by Resq14; 09-03-2002 at 06:59 AM.

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    It's all open so when it rains they get soaking wet?
    According to Albert Hammond

    "It never rains in California"

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    It pours.....MAN it pours..........

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    Mark Twain: "The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"
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    I am always amazed at the attention the scenes from the Bravest produce. It just goes to show how many differences there are in our industry.

    Resq14, standing up in the rig is no real big deal. It is better than sitting backwards going up and down those hills all day long. It is far less dangerous than going into a house that is on fire. I miss that rig. It was better than the one we have now. But, by the grace of God we are getting a new rig early next year. And yes, don't worry we will be sitting in the enclosed cab with our seat belts securely fastened.

    And, you were correct. We generally don't wear our scotts while doing roof work. Most of out roofs are peaked and we feel it is safer because of the weight and balance problems to keep the pack off while we are doing the work. We don't have the modern trussed roofs that are prone to failure. The trucks have a lot of time to get up there and open up before the roof starts to get ugly.

    As far as the turn-out pants go, you can have them if you want. If you ever have the opportunity to wear wool pants with safety shoes I guarantee you would choose them over the turn-outs. The number of burns caused by the "lack" of protection the wools provided were almost non-existent. More guys have been retired out of the department from back injuries while doing medical calls than from burns caused by the pants. But, without the experience you will have nothing to judge them by.

    The ladders are lighter than the fiberglass/steel and they react much better when exposed to fire. They do not fail nearly as fast. They are very easy to maintain, and they work very well.

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    Thumbs up

    I think BONEY-T pretty much nailed it as far as the cost / benefit of wools v. full turnouts. Oakland also switched to a full turnout policy about the same time SFFD did.
    Given the Choice I prefer wools. While occasionally uncomfortable when advancing a line we have very few serious burns associated with wearing wools.
    As far as masks on roofs are concerned ,given the pitch of many roofs in SF the fall risk may exceed the risk associated with exposure to smoke.
    SF is one huge tinderbox of old buildings they must be doing something right if there is still something to burn.
    peace

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