Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Location
    Rozet, Wyoming
    Posts
    38

    Question Flag at half-mast?

    Good morning. At an officer's meeting last night, we discussed plans for Wednesday, September 11th.

    Several of us, (myself included) wish to lower our station flag to half-mast. But others say this is improper as we are celebrating our patriotism and not mourning our loss.

    I feel that it would be disrespectful not to lower the flag.

    What are the rest of you planning to do?

    Thanks,
    A quote from Firefighter Timothy Stackpole, FDNY (borrowed from Bits & Pieces magazine)<br />"The greatest high you can get in life is by helping somebody."


  2. #2
    Forum Member SPIPER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Ours will be half mast. In my opinion we are doing both, celebrating patriotism as well as mourning the loss of our brothers.
    Steve
    Proud member of the IACOJ
    SUA SPONTE
    "I've got no respect for any young man who won't join the colors."
    ~Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA

  3. #3
    Forum Member SPIPER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    649

    Default From the IAFC website:

    IAFC Issues Recommendation for Fire Department Observances of September 11
    Posted Wednesday, August 14

    Washington, D.C., Tuesday, July 16, 2002......The International Association of Fire Chiefs has issued a nationwide call for all fire departments in America to simultaneously commemorate the first anniversary of the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001 and the subsequent losses suffered at the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and in Pennsylvania.

    The intent in issuing the call is to encourage all departments, on a station-by-station basis, to conduct a single nationwide salute to fallen firefighters, law enforcement and civilians alike—and to the extraordinary response of the entire American fire service to tragic events that have changed all of our lives.

    The event has been suggested to coordinate at the exact moment the World Trade Center events occurred and to be marked by two series of bell chimes, one for each of the towers whose collapse took so many lives at 10:05 EDT and 10:28 EDT respectively. While the precise time of the South Tower collapse has been stated as both 10:04am EDT and 10:05am EDT, for the sake of consistency, the IAFC has opted to use the CNN official time transcript for this purpose.

    “The IAFC is calling all fire departments and the communities they serve to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice on that terrible day one year ago ,” said Chief John Buckman, president of the IAFC. “Those fire fighters who lost their lives were our fire fighters, too. Their sacrifice was as heroic as anything we have ever seen, and we owe them all a debt of gratitude.”

    Further, the IAFC has stressed that the loss of so many innocent civilians in the attacks must also be acknowledged and honored for their sacrifice. The commemoration of the 1 year anniversary of the tragedies should serve as a special way for communities to do so.

    The following are guidelines issued by the IAFC as a suggestion format. Fire Departments all across the country have been encouraged to tailor the ceremony to fit their needs. The recommendations include:

    • Lowering the station flag to half mast for the duration of the ceremony
    • Tolling of the Bell ceremony*—timed to coincide with the precise times each of the twin towers collapsed (stations may ring bells, sirens, church chimes or observe a moment of silence)
    • Reading the names of each of the 343 fire fighters from FDNY who died September 11
    • Speech by the chief fire officer, city or county officials, local minister or other designated person, including local community leaders
    • Local minister or FD Chaplain recites Invocation or Firefighters Prayer
    • Recognizing any line of duty deaths the department itself has suffered in the past year
    • Performing any specific regional/department/station traditions for services
    • Fire departments are encouraged to invite local leaders and include members of the local community to participate in their remembrance plans as a way of providing them the opportunity to remember the lives lost on September 11.

    *Tolling of the Bell History

    Long before the Internet was invented, or telephones and radios were used across our great nation, fire departments used the telegraph to communicate - using special codes to receive fire alarms from those once-familiar red fire alarm boxes which stood on practically every street corner of America.

    When a firefighter was killed - or in the language of the military and public safety - fell - in the line of duty, the fire alarm office would tap out a special signal. This would be tapped out as five measured dashes - then a pause - then five measured dashes - then a pause - then five more measured dashes.

    This came to be called the Tolling of the Bell and was broadcast over the telegraph fire alarm circuits to all station houses in the vicinity. Heard outside on the streets - with the fire department’s windows open, the resonating echo was similar to that of fire stations of old where fire alarm gongs sounded the locations of thousands of emergencies throughout the history of our growing country.

    This was done for the purpose of notification, and as a sign of honor and respect for all firefighters who had made the ultimate sacrifice in service to their communities. Such symbolism has been a time-honored fire service tradition and is repeated at each service of a fallen firefighter.

    Tolling of the Bell Instructions

    Tolling instructions - to be toned on bell - NOT TO BE READ:

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone

    -longer pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone

    - longer pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone pause (wait - one thousand one, one thousand two)

    tone
    Steve
    Proud member of the IACOJ
    SUA SPONTE
    "I've got no respect for any young man who won't join the colors."
    ~Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, CSA

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    The flag on our quarters will remain as it's been all year, At Half Mast

  5. #5
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    Niagara Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    1,924

    Default

    Not to change the subject, but, I have noticed the NYSP flags at half staff for the last week and was wondering the reason. I do not believe it to be related to 9-11-01.

    Our flag was raised to full staff on the date that the president stated it to be done. Out of respect and rememberance for the brothers that were murdered on that day I will be requesting that the flag be lowered once again. As for other services, I do not know of anything being planned.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Wheaton IL
    Posts
    1,765

    Default

    The US Code: Title 36, section 175 prescribes how the flag of the United States shall be flown. Curently the only set day that the flag shouldn't be at the peak of its pole is from dawn till noon on Memorial Day. The flag shall also be at halfstaff on Peace Officers Memorial day, unless that day is also Armed Forces Day. The flag may be flown at halfstaff in the event of the death of a present or former official of the government of any state, territory, or possession of the United States
    It is up to the President or a state's governor to proclaim that the National flag be flown at half staff on any other day.

    While I completly understand the desire to fly the flag at halfstaff for the 11th, we need to be the example and fly the flag according to the rules of our country. During a cerimony for our brothers I don't see a problem with momentarily lowering the flag to half staff, but it should be returned to the peak after the cerimony is over.

    God bless the United States of America

  7. #7
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Malingering
    Posts
    3,640

    Default

    Our Flag

    Here at the CAVE we have been half mast all year. We still are missing member's...
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Loco madidus effercio in rutilus effercio.
    Posts
    12,837

    Default

    As a guy who follows with tradition pretty closely, both in a family way and also in a public way (Military etc), it seems to me that a Halfmasting of Flags is an appropriate method of both Rememberance to Fallen Comrades, and a show of Patriotism.

    Even "up Here" in the Great White North, we observed a lowering of flags after 11 Sep last year. As far as I am aware (nothing in writing that I have seen) for the Emergency Services, I think that this practice will continue for this year as well.

    My Station hasn't a flag pole set up yet, but our trucks still wear black bunting tied to the mirrors and radio antennas.

    As a sign of mourning and patriotism, it seems to me that the "Right Thing to Do" would be halfmasting - it JUST FEELS RIGHT to do that.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  9. #9
    Sr. Information Officer NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Arrow Flag

    The US flag in front of my personal residence will be half staff on the 11th, with a specially designed 9/11 memorial flag directly under it. I believe we need to honor those who died, and those who are still missing.
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,719

    Default

    The US Code: Title 36, section 175 prescribes how the flag of the United States shall be flown.
    I read somewhere that this applies only to federal government buildings and facilities.


    While I completly understand the desire to fly the flag at halfstaff for the 11th, we need to be the example and fly the flag according to the rules of our country. During a cerimony for our brothers I don't see a problem with momentarily lowering the flag to half staff, but it should be returned to the peak after the cerimony is over.
    It is my opinion that flying the flag at half staff on this and every September 11th is "the example" to show respect for our fallen Brothers and to make sure that Nobody Ever Forgets the sacrifices they made on that day.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  11. #11
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Door Village, IN
    Posts
    1,128

    Default

    The Flag will be at half mast all day for us.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  12. #12
    Forum Member SCOOBY14B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Posts
    359

    Default

    The United States Congress has declared September 11th as Patriot Day. Part of the declaration calls for flags to be flown at half staff on this date.

  13. #13
    Senior Member FDNYRR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Posts
    336

    Thumbs up

    ...."a patriot need not obsess, nor be forced to show their alligience, true patrism comes from the heart!" Patrick Henry

    I believe a show of respect from those of us still living, toward those of us who met their dimiss...At the World Trade Center, At the Pentagon, At the Feild in Pa............justifiably over-rules any pre-determined concept as to "when" and "when-not" to mast the Flag of our Nation!

    As for myself........the thoughts of my long gone friends will remain, Flag or not.
    "All gave some...Some gave all!"
    9/11/01 Lest we forget!
    FDNYRR

  14. #14
    Junior Member firefighter598's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Scottsbluff, Nebraska
    Posts
    11

    Default

    I do not know if my department will fly the flag at Station 1 at half mast but the one at my house will be. I know that we are not going to put black bands on our badges but we will be celebrating the Day not grieving
    Dave W. Butcher
    Firefighter
    Scottsbluff Fire Department

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Weiner, AR, USA
    Posts
    99

    Default

    Personally, I feel that it doesnt matter just as long as people are flying their flags. If at half or full staff, lets just make sure that no one ever has a chance to forget what happened that day, the civilians that perished and our Brothers that gave all.
    By the way, I am suprised someone hasnt corrected some of the folks on here. It is Half-STAFF on land and Half-MAST on water vessels.
    But we all know what is meant,
    Stay Safe !!!!
    Tyler

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Location
    Westchester Co., NY USA
    Posts
    567

    Default

    In my heart the flag will always be at half-mast. I've thought about this time and time again for the past few months. Part of me wants to fly it at half-mast and mourn again, and then part of me wants to fly that flag as high as it will go for all of them and us. Being that I was there, and have lost several friends and a few colleagues, Wed. will be one of the longest days of my life.


    Scooby, can you give me any info where I can confirm the stipulations to the patriot day declaration?

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    15

    Default

    I will fly my flag at half mast from dawn to dusk on September 11th and when I see it fly, I will also remember and glorify all that perished on that day. I will give praise to our heroes that serve to protect this great country of ours. I will never forget what the flag means to us and what it has been through since our great nation was born. May it stand and fly high forever as we live in the greatest country on earth.
    May we also remember all the men and women who are giving their all in our military so that our flag can fly high and show we are still free and a united country.
    Thanks from another C.O.J
    GOD BLESS AMERICA

  18. #18
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Door Village, IN
    Posts
    1,128

    Default ttjjss

    FYI- Those of us with Naval or Marine Corps service will always refer to it as half mast. It's just the way we are. Every once in a while I still say"I gotta make a head call." LOL
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts