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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Help w/ new Heavy Rescue

    Greetings from Wisconsin!

    I am in the final stages before pre-construction on a new Spartan/Salsbury Heavy Rescue. This truck was copied pretty much from the Fitchburg WI. rescue.

    http://www.fitchburgfire.com/apparatus/fis1.htm

    Non walk-in, Super command cab w/20" roof, PTO hydrualic tool system, roll-up doors, 40kw pto, front bumper w/2 tool reels and one tool.

    I have a few questions for the masses and am looking for some experienced opinions.


    1. Light Towers: Currently I am specing two 9000 watt quartz vertical 25' towers. Question: For the money, are two necessary? There is 4000 watts of fixed lighting per side, 2000 to the rear plus tri-pod lights and 1500 fixed to the front above cab. Departments with two, how many times do you set both up.

    What about metal halide bulbs vs. quarts? Is 9000 watts of Metal Halide brighter than 9000 watts of Quartz?

    2. Magnafire 12v Metal Halide lights. Any experiences? Cost?

    3. Cascade System fragmentation box. Getting a 6000psi system, however, instead of $5000 fill/fragmentation box, how about quick fill
    system? On a related note, are fragmentation boxes required? (NFPA)?

    4. Front facing arrowstick. Practical? Often used?

    Thanks for your help!

    Daniel Furseth
    Asst. Chief
    DeForest Area Fire/EMS (WI)

    fire3@deforestfire.com



    [URL=http://www.deforestfire.com
    Daniel Furseth
    DeForest (WI)
    Safe And Fast Extrication, Inc.
    www.besafeinc.org

    "Extrication is like jazz. Improvisation based on fundamentals"


  2. #2
    Senior Member apatrol's Avatar
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    I like two light otwers at times if they are aimed at different angles you can reduce shadow and improve safety visibilty. On the flip side I would rather see a light tower on every pumper and the rescue so you can light up the scene from multiple angles....Cant help with the bulbs or frag box question. Many Depts re-fill packs while they are being worn but that doesnt mean its a good idea.

    Enjoy The New Truck,

    Andy

  3. #3
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    I would go with an arrow stick but on the back only. I would mount a 750w quartz light on the brow of the rescue and run it off the generator. I would only go with one light tower and mount at least 4 tri-pod lights on the vehicle.

    The cascade system: I am almost 98% sure that the NFPA requires a frag tank for your cascade system. Good thinking on the 6000 psi. I would add in a quick fill station as well as the frag tanks. One thing you may consider is an on-board refill system for the cascade. It can make all the difference on those over night calls or Haz-Mats.

    Hope this helps

    Matt

  4. #4
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    After speaking with Willburt Co (one of the light tower manufacturers) they state that the metal halide bulbs put out approx. three times the amount of light per watt than the quartz halogen. They do however take two to three minutes to 'warm up'. The metal halide bulbs are usually paired with a halogen bulb...that way the quartz comes on right away and a couple of minutes later the metal halides are up and running.

    Another option might be to get the 'dual tilt' option which lets you face 1/2 your forward, the other 1/2 face the rear of the tower). This option is NOT available with the metal halide lights.

    Our new rescue pumper with light tower is due for delivery in January.

    Your truck sounds great so far!

  5. #5
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    We have been using the two tower setup from Wilburt for six years now. Each tower has two metal halide lamps fixed on the bottom with moveable quartz lights above. In addition the entire mast rototes. We have had very few problems and are very happy with the performance.

  6. #6
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    Originally posted by decou151
    We have been using the two tower setup from Wilburt for six years now. Each tower has two metal halide lamps fixed on the bottom with moveable quartz lights above.
    I would HIGHLY recommend the above setup. It allows you the "instant on" benefits of quartz halogen lights with the much brighter light from metal halide bulbs within 30-60 seconds or so. If it's possible, go for the dual towers with a combination of each type of light per tower.

    Front traffic director... I think the Fallon-Churchill trucks had these. It seemed kind of gimmicky to me, but ya know, it just might make sense. If you often find yourself parked facing traffic in your lane, perhaps it could be worthwhile.

    Magnafire... I don't think they're an acceptable replacement for true 100/220v lights. For situations where you can't run a generator (lack of one, or lack of a hotshift/shift-on-the-fly pto), they truly shine--certainly better than standard 12v lights. It couldn't hurt to have some of these as 12v backups though in case your electrical system failed. They're about $550 a piece though... hardly cheap. But since you're considering duelling light towers, perhaps money isn't an issue! I'd love to see pics/plans...

    Frag boxes/cascades... not my forte, so I'll refrain.

    Best of luck.
    Tony
    Last edited by Resq14; 09-06-2002 at 02:38 AM.

  7. #7
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    I recommend the two light tower set up, as well. If you are using your rescue on a multiple extrication incident ,you know as well as I do, both vehicles don't always stick together. If the vehicles are some distance apart, you can light two different "scenes" with one truck. Have you considered putting your compressor on your rig?? We run our breathing air compressor on our rig and it works out good. We have it wired to a transfer switch so we can run it off a shore line when it is in station or the main generator(75kw) on scene. We have a whelen traffic stick on the rear of our rig, it works out ok until the fire police can get there. The post that recommended putting a light on the front of the rig was dead on. We have a light on the front of the rig , as well as one on either side of the truck, that we can run off the AMPS generator while the truck is in motion. This is nice if you are doing a search on the sides or the front of the rig, until the main generator can be engaged. Good luck.

    you can see our truck at:
    www.resqsquad.net
    Look under featured rigs, Blades Fire Company

  8. #8
    Forum Member TCFD12's Avatar
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    12V Magnafire HID's are top notch. They are probably double the cost of what was previously stated. What we did on our new Rescue/Engines is a Dual Tilt Wil-Burt Light tower with (6) 900W Magnafire Quartz lights. We also spec'd (10) 12V Magnafires that are fix mounted, 2 front, 3 each side and 2 rear. I had the opportunity to test the 12V during our Chassis inspection, with just four of them on it was like daylight. The reasoning behind what we did, was to provide immediate general lighting (all of the HID's are controlled from the cab) when we pull on scene, and then to position the light tower as our specific task lighting. The Dual-Tilt feature allows more that one area to be covered.

    I believe that our trucks will be the first to have this (6) 900W Magnafire/ Wilburt setup and should provide mmore than adewuate light. I have just converted an older Wilburt Tower to (6) 750W Magnafires and the difference was amazing. Can't recommend these lights enough.

    As far as one or two. Personally I think that a second tower may be a waste of money when comparing the cost/benefit factor, but that's something you need to decide.

    12V HID's
    Another shot of the HID's
    "The hero is commonly the simplest and obscurest of men."
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  9. #9
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    Jay - I'm kind of confused. Are the lights on the light tower metal halide or standard quartz halogen?

    And the prices I got were probably way too low... they were off of a discount supplier site. I didn't realize they were that much.

    I can't wait to see the finished trucks. Saulsbury's attention to detail is pretty good, eh?
    Last edited by Resq14; 09-08-2002 at 10:26 AM.

  10. #10
    Forum Member TCFD12's Avatar
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    Sorry for the confusion. Lights on the light tower are standard Quartz lights. Body and cab mounted are HID's.

    Saulsbury's attention to detail and construction practices are top notch. Our trucks should be complete in about a month or so. Can't wait.
    "The hero is commonly the simplest and obscurest of men."
    -Henry David Thoreau

    Visit my dept. at www.TCFD.com

  11. #11
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
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    DFurseth,
    When we were specing out our rescue three years ago we looked at the towers as well. We couldn't justify the expense/loss of storage space and instead put a compartment on the drivers side to store ladders/pike poles and on the passenger side put two "chest" style compartments to store the stuff you need for rescue but don't use that often. A ladder on the rear makes for quick access. For lighting we have two 1500 watt telelites on the front and one fixed 500 watt on the rear and one 500 watt tripod. Two ambulance style side lights per side are used to illuminate the immediate area around the truck. Good luck.
    Last edited by FFWALT; 09-17-2002 at 11:52 PM.
    Train like you want to fight.
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  12. #12
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    Since everyone danced around the frag tubes, I'll give the bad news:

    NFPA 1901, 1999 edition Chapter 23
    23-9 SCBA Fill Station.
    23-9.1
    If SCBA or SCUBA air cylinders are to be refilled from a vehicle-mounted air system, the system shall meet the following requirements:
    (1) The system shall fully enclose the cylinder during filling to contain the fragments if a cylinder ruptures.
    (2) The system shall fully enclose the refill lines to the cylinders.
    (3) The system shall direct the concussive air blast away from the operator and bystanders. A fill station within an enclosed crew area shall have provisions to vent the concussive air blast to the exterior of the vehicle.
    (4) A means shall be provided to prevent SCBA or SCUBA cylinders from being refilled unless the system is in the “cylinder fill operation position.”
    (5) A warning sign shall indicate the hazards inherent in the operation of filling SCBA or SCUBA cylinders.

    There is more to this section regarding cascade systems so you may want to check it out. Most apparatus manufacturers, most notably Saulsbury, will not deviate from 1901 unless its specified in writing.

    Hope this helps and good luck.

  13. #13
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    Fragment boxes are a must have,Our Pierce is set up
    with the bottle enclosur and the bottom has a heavy
    steel grate to let the fragments blow out the bottom.
    I won't be wronged,I won't be insulted,
    and I won't be laid a hand on.
    I don't do these things to other people
    and I require the same from them.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Does anyone know where to buy a single bottle apparatus mounted frag tube? We are having a heck of a time with space issues and are wanting a 1 bottle at a time system.
    FTM - PTB

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    Does anyone know where to buy a single bottle apparatus mounted frag tube? We are having a heck of a time with space issues and are wanting a 1 bottle at a time system.
    Try these guys, American Airworks...


    http://www.americanairworks.com/cas-cont3.html

    Scroll down a bit, they have a single-bottle containment station. We had originally spec'd this for our new rescue/service truck, but due to budget issues, we went with a light rescue instead of a medium, which in turn required us to eliminate the cascade system due to weight considerations . Anyway, might be what you're looking for. They also have a space-saving 2-bottle system on the same page.

    And to echo what Rotoray said, if you request a feature on your rig that is not NFPA compliant, the manufacturer may require you to sign a waiver of liability before they'll install it. We had that conversation too, on a couple of occasions.

    American Airworks also has the not-NFPA-compliant-but-better-than-nothing "Popcan"....

    http://www.americanairworks.com/cas-cont.html
    Last edited by dmleblanc; 10-16-2005 at 08:12 PM.
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    Funny you should mention that you eliminated it when you went with a small rescue.

    We are getting a 12' body on a F-550 and probably a 2 bottle cascade system. Our medium rescue has a 4 bottle system but if MABAS calls for that we have no mobile cascade.

    Thanks for the information, that "Boombox" looks pretty good, just have to get the dimensions of it.
    Last edited by BVFD1983; 02-24-2006 at 01:02 AM.
    FTM - PTB

  17. #17
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Front mounted arrow lights are just as important as rear mounted. We have one on our '02 quint.

    Look at it this way, what percentage of your calls does the rig end up faceing oncomming traffic? 30%, 50%, more? Think about it.
    Fire Marshal/Safety Officer

    IAAI-NFPA-IAFC/VCOS-Retired IAFF

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  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber dmleblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BVFD1983
    Funny you should mention that you eliminated it when you went with a small rescue.

    We are getting a 12' body on a F-550 and probably a 2 bottle cascade system. Our medium rescue has a 4 bottle system but if MABAS calls for that we have no mobile cascade.

    Thanks for the information, that "Boombox" looks pretty good, just have to get the dimensions of it.
    We also have a 12' body on a F-550. With the other equipment we wanted to carry, the cascade system plus the containment system would have been pushing the GVWR envelope a bit. Since we just replaced all our SCBA thanks to a FEMA grant last year, we now have all these spare bottles lying around, so we decided to just make one long pull-out tray that carries 16 spare bottles. That's about as many bottles as you could fill off a 2 bottle cascade, or so our calculations indicated (although they may not have been accurate..... )

    Look again at the very bottom of that page....they have the dimensions shown for the single-cylinder "Boombox"....
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream — and I hope you don't find this too crazy — is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    — C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber BVFD1983's Avatar
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    I just did a little research and found a great picture of what we want, including the treadplate on top of the box: http://www.ponderosavfd.org/equipment/equip62b.jpg

    This one IS NFPA 1901 COMPLIANT
    http://www.breathingair.com/product....,SQ6UJ9A00008W

    http://www.breathingair.com/PDFs/CFSII-1s.pdf
    FTM - PTB

  20. #20
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    Not sure if weight or space is the consideration here, but we put one of these in a light squad with a four bottle cascade, and we're pretty happy with it.

    This rig doesn't carry a whole lot besides the fill station, the cascade bottles, some EMS equipment, four SCBA, and some misc. tools - so your weight limitations may be a bigger issue than it was for us.

    EagleAir Sidewinder

    If you're looking for pictures of the rig or installation, it isn't anything special, but I could snap some.

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