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Thread: airbags

  1. #1
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    Question airbags

    My department recently had an MVA, where the steering column was dislodged and pointing outward toward the drivers door. It was suggested that we chain up the airbag to prevent deployment. SHould this be attempted? I dont believe so, but could someone email me a paper on this as well as post a response?


  2. #2
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
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    NEVER, I said NEVER, did I mention NEVER?, put anything over an air bag cover. All the manufacturers will tell you that.

    The only thing putting chains over the bag will do is give you possible flying chains should you accidently trip the system. (See Dayton, Ohio)

    Your best bet is to find the battery and disconnect the power. No power=no deployment. Yes you do have to wait for the capacitors to drain but if you go for the battery while you're doing size up, stabilzation and patient assesment that will give you plenty of time for them to drain.

    If you're looking for anything in writting try the American Coalition for Traffic Safety or any of the vehicle manufacturers' web sites. You can either download or request they mail you the info.

    If you're anywhere close to eastern PA contact me regarding teaching the GM Air Bag class in your station.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  3. #3
    FIGJAM lutan1's Avatar
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    Default Here we go again!

    Here we go- another way of asking do we cover bags or not?!

    Hey pcfd502, this is a real hot topic and certainly going to cause lots of controversy, as it has in the past. Check out some of the archives for extra info.

    I'm a firm beleiver in covering an undeployed drivers bag with the Holmatro Secunet. I can assure everyone that a reputable company like Holmatro would never invent and market a device such as this, if it was not safe to use! (Imagine the liabilities if it was proven unsafe... )

    Even with the bag covered, we still use the 5-10-20 rule for the covered bag and any other undeployed bag.

    The only failures I've heard of with the Secunet appear to be as a result of incorrect fitting of the device. I certainly do not condone the use of hard dveices such as the Bagbuster, or as you've queried, chains, longboards or any other hard device....

    Try to read the info in the archives carefully and steer clear of the emotive language and wording that people have used. Contact the manufacturers of protection devices and see what they have to say.
    Luke

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    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Lutan - Interesting comments about the Secunet. My local Holmatro reps are no longer suggesting their use. Me thinks it has something to do with giving people false security feelings. I have never used the Secunet (as we don't use Holmatro tools) but have seen them.

    pcfd502 - A loaded airbag needs to be treated with the same respect whether it is covered with some device or not. Stay out of its area or it may come back to bite you. Disconnect power, stay in safe areas, remember it's there. Even a powerless airbag can be setoff by other powers.

    Anyone notice how an OnStar system still works after an accident? It's own battery. What happens if it's damaged and it charges the vehicle....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  5. #5
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
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    BONES:

    I work for a GM dealer and just spoke with our shop foreman who knows nothing about Onstar having it's own battery. It's probably hooked into the SIR system so that it works off the same capacitor as the bags when power is lost. That way when the bags are deployed Onstar can still dial out.

    As far as knows if you kill the battery you kill Onstar as well. If you've got something in writing from GM or Hughes I'd be interested in seeing it. Thanx.

    As far as the Holmatro bag cover goes I'm still waiting to get a copy of the video showing it flying out the back window of a Park Avenue. It was promised to me several months ago but still haven't seen it yet.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  6. #6
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Steve - good to hear about the OnStar thing. It was something that I had been told at a "New Technologies" class. No, I have no information on it. My bad, should have posed that more as a question than a statement.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    FIGJAM lutan1's Avatar
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    Dragon, if it's the same video we're talking about, I've seen it!

    Robert Walmsley from ICET (Netherlands) showed it at a symposium I attended a few years back. It was put down to incorrect fitting, not a failure of the device.
    Luke

  8. #8
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    showing it flying out the back window
    Enough force to cause injury?

    It was put down to incorrect fitting, not a failure of the device.
    No device, no failure of said device.

    How well does the device secure should there be deformation of the steering wheel?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Birdboro? Holy Cow. My Aunt lives over on 1st Street, across the tracks near the gas station, small world. IM in Western NY, so you stopping by to teach that class is probably out of the question. I just decide to post this question, because it came up in post-response discussion and I just wanted some backup as I was against placing anything over the airbag.

    Robert Moyer
    Assistant Chief, Extrication Specialist
    Perry Center FD
    www.perrycentefd.com

  10. #10
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
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    Lutan: Incorrect installation is the main reason why I am against using anything like that. 2 AM, barely awake, pumped up on adrenaline, human nature being what it is it's just too easy to not install it correctly.

    Also, any manufacturer would love to blame the installation rather than take the blame. The use of that device has been argued in several other previous forums here and will continue to do so in the future.

    I recently taught the air bag class to a company that purchased it, thought twice about tried to send it back, they wouldn't accept it, so it's been sitting in a closet since then.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  11. #11
    FIGJAM lutan1's Avatar
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    Now to really stir the pot!

    Incorrect installation is the main reason why I am against using anything like that. 2 AM, barely awake, pumped up on adrenaline, human nature being what it is it's just too easy to not install it correctly.
    Well I guess based on that, we'd better put the tools back in the truck! Oh, hang on, the truck's not there becasue we might have made a bad judgement call coming through the intersection and might have crashed en route...

    Just stirring you up Dragon! This is definitely one of the hottest and most controversial topics on these forums and I love to see what other people think. Everything we do at a rescue scene has dangers- we're only as safe as we make it....
    Luke

  12. #12
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Nah,you like this subject,'cause it lets you stir the pot.With the new lightweight wheel rims they are coming out with,there is NO WAY I'm going to use a Securnet on 'em.Severe deformation and tool loss are highly likely.If you take the battery cables off the battery and hook the CABLE ENDS together and ground them it will prevent deployment about as well as the 'net.How do they have blasting caps wired until ready to use?Uh Huh with the trigger wires twisted together.See any similarities here?T.C.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber rmoore's Avatar
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    Had a firefighter friend from Virginia tell me of an experience he had regarding airbag containment.

    He was off-duty and came upon a crash scene with a driver trapped. The fire department in that rural area arrived. During the course of the extrication, they took an entire roll of duct tape and wrapped, and wrapped and wrapped the horn, airbag cover area, and steering wheel until they ran out of tape.

    That was their solution to the airbag containment problem.

    You guys make sure nobody else thinks this is a good idea and I'll work on getting in touch with this department to set them straight. OK?
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

  14. #14
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    Thumbs up

    Duct tape? oh goody we carry plenty of that! Just kidding, Im on the side of not restricting airbag deployment, but what Im looking for is something in print(and free,LOL)that I can show the Chief to discourage this practice before it gets started.

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