1. #1
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Lightbulb Ford Crown Vics, new info.

    A lot of fire departments have Ford Crown Victorias
    and I wanted to pass along some info. I got from a
    friend in the California Highway Patrol (CHP)

    As you may know, there have been several rear end
    explosions involving the Ford Crown Vics. The CHP
    is one of the biggest consumers of the police
    vehicles and they get rear-ended weekly with no
    explosions known to date.

    WHY? The CHP modifys the factory delivered car once
    it gets to the state. They shear off two pins near
    the gas tank and add a protective plate. No incidents
    known to date after this modifcation.

    This is just word of mouth info. I highly suggest you
    call or write the CHP automotive section if you want
    more info. www.chp.ca.gov. We should be getting more
    info. on this issue as it comes out. Thanks
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 09-20-2002 at 01:57 AM.

  2. #2
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Post

    This is certainly a topic that should interest us, not only from a firefighting perspective...but, realizing that many departments USE the Crown Victoria as a Chief/Assist Chief vehicle...it becomes a personal safety issue within your department. There are many conflicting reports regarding problems with this vehicle's fuel tank. It depends on which side you listen to. Perhaps those of you having experience in matters relating to this issue, could post some comments in this thread.

    For starts, Crown Victoria Fires

    Let me pose this question....WHY hasn't the technology of FUEL BLADDERS, as used by NASCAR, CART, IMSA...etc., made it's way to the entire consumer automobile industry??? Is it a cost issue?


    Phoenix, AZ apparently took the initiative...and started installing fuel cells in their Crown Vics. Rather than wait for an accident to take the life of one of their own...they decided to be proactive!

    Phoenix Refits

    What are your thoughts? Should fuel cells/bladders be standard on today's automobiles? They've been around for years. I thought that auto manufacturers used racing technology...as a learning tool...and would then apply that technology to the street? Why hasn't that happened with fuel cells?
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    EastKyFF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Posts
    3,090

    Default

    They haven't implemented fuel cells because we're just right on the verge of hydrogen-based fuel technology...giggle! Sorry, I almost got it out with a straight face.

    Detroit (& elsewhere) will never do anything that Uncle Sam doesn't mandate. That's the ugly armpit of the truth.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  4. #4
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Eastkyff - You crack me up. First you're on teh squirty end of the hose and then you try to say that Hydrogen is just around the corner. Pretty soon you'll be trying not to laugh when you tell us Ethanol is cheaper than gas. The eco-nuts hate the truth.

    In addition to not being mandated by the Feds to put bladders and cells in gas tanks, it is a liability thing. If they do this, then they are, by default, saying that the original gas tanks are unsafe (at least this is how the ambulance chasers would see it). Fuel cells are not all that much more expensive to do either, but the beancounters will say that it is too expensive when compared to the cost of litigation.

    The problem here is that this is not just from the new Crown Vics. This problem with gas tanks goes back 2 generations of teh vehicles (if I read the information correctly). There were no corrective measures taken before and the information was known about this. At least a dozen police officers have died in these collisions as well as a number of civilians in their own Crown Vics and Mercury Grand Marquis.

    Looks like Ford didn't learn from the Pinto, the Explorer (along with Bridgestone), or any of the other things that they have encountered when redesigning a vehicle. I know Ford is not the only one to do this either, but eventually you are going to smacked with a HUGE decision that will cost you a fortune for not spending a couple extra bucks. But why should anyone learn things the easy way.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  5. #5
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default OK...

    Ok all. thanks for the feedback. I just found it
    interesting the the biggest comsumer of the Police
    Crown Vic has had NO explosions AND they get
    rear-ended on a weekly basis. (its a big state)

    So, if the CHP is doing this on their own, why
    cant Ford or anyone else follow suit and do the
    same????

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Champaign, IL
    Posts
    23

    Default

    Now that I hit the right button,
    The city garage has making the same modification to our PDs squads. I believe they said it was a recall or something similar, I have not see an actual recall notice though.

  7. #7
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Thumbs up

    I tip my leather to those departments that are making the modifications, even though the outcome of litigations and investigations are pending. It could take years before any headway is made in determining whether they are safe or unsafe. If you are really interested in protecting your personnel...spend the money, time and efforts to insure their safety. It certainly can't hurt.

    My point regarding manufacturers was that their racing programs are "supposed" to be the test track for performance and safety issues. If they have found bladders to be safer than traditional fuel tanks...why not at least OFFER them as options, if not standard equipment. I would think that something like that would be attractive to consumers..a terrific selling point...but apparently, the marketing experts disagree.

    I would certainly consider one...if it were available from the carmaker...from the factory.
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  8. #8
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Post Phoenix, AZ 9/25/02

    Panel meeting to recommend ways to make Crown Victorias safer
    PHOENIX (AP) - A panel is meeting here Thursday to whip up
    remedies to help prevent deadly fires in Ford Crown Victoria Police
    Interceptors.
    Twelve patrolmen nationwide have burned to death in Crown
    Victorias, three in Arizona.
    The panel will look into changes in police procedures and
    vehicle markings that could prevent collisions, as well as at the
    work being done by Ford's Technical Task Force, which is testing
    shields, fire-suppression systems and fuel-tank bladders designed
    to lesson the risk of fire.
    Safety experts and plaintiffs' attorneys say the design of the
    Crown Victoria's vertical fuel tank is the problem.
    In a crash, the tank can be pushed into the rear axle and
    suspension, where it can rupture.
    Ford says the fuel tank is a safe design, but the company has
    agreed to study ways to enhance crashworthiness.
    At least 26 civilians nationwide have burned to death in fires
    in Crown Victorias or similar models.
    The nine-member panel, composed of experts appointed by state
    Attorney General Janet Napolitano and Ford Motor Co., plans to meet
    all day.

    (Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  9. #9
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    44

    Default

    First of all, to Dasharkie, I assume you are talking about the Pinto fires. Pintos meet and exceeded all Federal Safety Standards for collisions when they were built.
    Companies can only do so much to their vehicles to make them safe yet still affordable to people, especially with our salaries.
    The Crown Victorias that were hit also exceeded all federal safety standards. Their are a few reasons for the crashes, fires and ultimatley the deaths. AZ police modify their own vechicles after receipt from the manufactuer. Second, they store sharp objects in trucks as well as heavy objects. Manufactures can only protect against so much. The vechicles were hit at over 80 mph, and at least one by a semi truck. Some of the officers had not pulled off onto the shoulder, some of AZ highways do not have the rumble strip to alert drivers that they are on the shoulder.
    If you want better cars, you have to be willing to pay for it and the federal government must mandate it. Ford Crown Vics exceed federal safety standards. How far past what is required should manufactures have to go to not be blamed for excessive speed accidents.
    Sorry if this comes across a bit witchy, it just seems to me as though sometimes we hold manufactures to an unfair standard for our safety when we dont hold ourselves to the same.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    DaSharkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Posts
    4,713

    Default

    Pintos meet and exceeded all Federal Safety Standards for collisions when they were built.
    Ford Crown Vics exceed federal safety standards.
    Just because a vehicle exceeds the federal standards doesn't mean squat. There are safety recalls all the time for vehicles that exceed standars.

    Secondly. I don't put a hole lot of stock in the federal government's standards. These have been enhanced ro revamped since the eraly to mid 1960s. Technology, materials, teh environment, and a multitude of factors have changed since these standards were put into place.

    I remember a few years ago that Chevrolet and GMC were lambasted because their pick-up's gas tanks ruptured. Again, they exceeded federal safety standards but there was "supposedly" a problem with the gas tank placement. Other than ABC having to literally blow the truck up to demonstrate the "flaw" there wasn't a big to do made over it.

    In addition, many companies do things for vehicles without a federal mandate. GM has had Daytime Running Lights (DRLs) on their vehicles for years (Personally I am a believer in these little gadgets), Dodge put airbags in ALL of their vehicles BEFORE it became a federal mandate, Fuel cells are being researched for a better application in the near future for civilian vehicles, I don't believe that side airbags are mandated for vehicles but almost every car out there offers them or soon will, and in the next few years you are going to be seeing 4-point harnesses in passenger cars for occupant restraints.
    "Too many people spend money they haven't earned, to buy things they don't want, to impress people they don't like." Will Rogers

    The borrower is slave to the lender. Proverbs 22:7 - Debt free since 10/5/2009.

    "No man's life, liberty, or property are safe while the legislature is in session." - New York Judge Gideon Tucker

    "As Americans we must always remember that we all have a common enemy, an enemy that is dangerous, powerful and relentless. I refer, of course, to the federal government." - Dave Barry

    www.daveramsey.com www.clarkhoward.com www.heritage.org

  11. #11
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    44

    Default

    The Federal Government can bot be held responsible for everyones safety in vehicles, but where do you draw the line for manufacturers? The Crwon Vics drivers also have to take some responsibility. When vehicles are hit at over 100 mph by a semi truck, there is only so mcuh a company can do to protect you in situations like that. In MI htere was an accidnet where a Crown Vic was rear ended by a semi in excess of 65 mph while the officer was in the vehicle writing a ticket. The car did not catch fire, and the officer lived. Could the way that AZ troppers are refiguring their trucks have something to do with the fact that they are the state that has the most crown vic fires? Technology is constantly improving, is it fair to hold companies responsible to go back and retro-fit vehicles that were up to stnadards at the time of production? Should they have to put airbags in all vechicles now because they are available? Should they have to equip all vechilces with side airbags becasue they are available? I dont think so, we have to take some responsiblity for our own safety. IF you want side airbags you are going to have to dchoose that option and pay more for it. The officers need to take some responsibility for their safety and pull off of hte highway, stop adapting the truck to a better storage design for them if it compromises the integrity of hte vehicle. Where do you draw the line at how far companies should go beyond federal standards? Daytime running lights, my vehcile is not equipped with them, but you know what, my lights are always on because I take the extra 5 seconds and turn them on myself just like I put my set belt on. It is just a safety feature that s there that you have to take some responsibility for.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    FiremedicMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Central Ohio, USA
    Posts
    374

    Default

    So uh, considering most crown vic's are drivin by the cheif/ac, wouldn't we _WANT_ them to be more likely to explode?


  13. #13
    Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    44

    Default

    Moves me up the ladder.

  14. #14
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Exclamation Please dont lose sight...

    My whole basis of this thread was the fact that the
    CHP modifys their cars once received. AGAIN, they
    but THE MOST Crown Vics out there and anyone else.
    We are talking hundreds and hundreds just in storage.

    SO, they have had NO explosions. NONE after getting
    hit on a WEEKLY basis. I want to bang my head against
    the wall because they are doing something that is
    working while other citys, countys and states mull
    over the issue...HELLO...wake up....we have a fix!

    Thanks for reading...

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Engine101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Monrovia Ca
    Posts
    615

    Default

    Monrovia PD uses Crown Vics No problems with them MPD just got there new order of Crown Vics in last week
    CHP has also started to use camroes now

  16. #16
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Arrow FYI...this just in!

    WASHINGTON (AP) - A 10-month federal investigation ended
    Thursday without finding a defect in the Ford Crown Victoria police
    cars linked to the fiery deaths of a dozen officers.
    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said the car
    exceeds federal standards for fuel system safety and the rate of
    fires was not much greater than with Chevrolet Caprice police cars.
    Each of the 12 officers' deaths since 1983 involved a Crown
    Victoria gas tank catching fire, often after being hit in the rear
    in a high-speed crash.
    NHTSA said the car meets current federal standards that require
    a vehicle to withstand a rear crash at 30 miles per hour without
    leaking fuel. The agency also said the vehicle did not leak fuel
    during a test at 50 miles per hour, which the agency has proposed
    to be the new standard.
    "Clearly, we know the vehicle meets the regulation so it's
    great to see this has happened, but it's not a surprise," said
    Ford Motor Co. spokeswoman Sara Tatchio.
    The agency opened its investigation on Nov. 27, 2001, and has
    found 26 fires that led to 16 deaths and 11 injuries. Four of the
    deaths were from crashes involving civilian Crown Victoria cars.
    NHTSA found that from 1992-2001, vehicles with the Crown
    Victoria's fuel system involved in a rear crash caught fire 8
    percent of the time, compared to 6.3 percent with the fuel system
    used in the Chevrolet Caprice.
    NHTSA said almost all of the Crown Victoria fuel leaks occurred
    after a very high-speed crash and that many high-energy rear
    crashes did not lead to a significant fuel leak. Ford said the
    crashes that led to fires were almost always at speeds higher than
    60 mph with some as high as 84 mph.
    Ford agreed Friday to pay for the installation of shields around
    the gas tanks on Crown Victoria police cars to reduce the chances
    that the vehicles would burst into flames after a crash.
    There are 350,000 Crown Victoria cars used by police departments
    nationwide - approximately 80 percent of police cars on the road in
    the United States.
    Ford officials insisted the Crown Victoria is a safe car, and
    modifications to the consumer version are not necessary because
    most drivers don't put submit cars to the pressures that police
    officers do.
    Former NHTSA administrator Joan Claybrook, president of consumer
    advocacy group Public Citizen, said the agency and Ford are
    irresponsible to avoid a recall of the consumer version. Besides a
    shield to prevent fires, she said the structure needs to be
    redesigned.
    "Consumers drive just as rapidly in most cases as police do on
    open highways and they are at risk," she said.
    NHTSA said it expects Ford's action will reduce the likelihood
    of fires in Crown Victoria police cars, but the fix was not a
    factor in its decision to close this investigation. The agency also
    said it will continue to monitor the performance of the cars and
    will join the International Association of Chiefs of Police to
    study police vehicle safety.
    Ford said it would be happy to work with the coalition to keep
    officers safe.
    ---
    On the Net:
    National Highway Traffic Safety Administration,
    http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov
    Ford Motor Co., http://www.ford.com

    (Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  17. #17
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    36

    Default

    My personal opinion...



    Let the cops keep the P71's, and we can drive areound in our forest units, with the tube bars, and smash into em.
    My personal opinion, I hate the cops, The pd here is now running our ambulance and it sucks, we lost so many calls....

    RECALL ALL THE FD P71's

  18. #18
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Question ummmmm, ok....

    I just gotta ask...What does any of the mean in the
    post above? Smach the police cars and the police run
    the ambulance service....ummm, lay the crack pipe
    down, we are talking about a particular car in here,
    the Crown Victoria.

  19. #19
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Arrow The latest

    PHOENIX (AP) - Shields designed to protect the fuel tanks on
    Crown Victoria police cars will be available to police agencies
    beginning next week, a Ford Motor Co. spokeswoman said.
    Last month, Ford agreed to fund installation of the shields in
    350,000 patrol cars after police departments complained the
    vehicles are prone to burst into flames in high-speed, rear-end
    collisions. At least a dozen officers across the country have been
    killed in fiery crashes in Crown Victorias since 1983, including
    three in Arizona.
    About 80 percent of police cars on the road in the United States
    are Ford Crown Victorias.
    The first 40,000 shield kits will arrive Monday at Ford customer
    service centers across the nation, spokeswoman Kristen Kinley said
    Tuesday. A total of 190,000 kits are to be shipped by month's end.
    Ford expects to have all Crown Victoria police cars fitted by
    the end of the year.
    The repair work will take place at Ford dealerships or in police
    department garages, depending on the department's regular
    maintenance routines, she said. Police departments that are not
    already scheduled to receive the kits may register online or call
    Ford.
    Shields made of plastic and rubber will be installed on the rear
    axle, the differential and underneath the gas tanks. Those
    components have either been faulted in accidents or showed the
    potential to puncture the gas tank in crash tests.
    Ford officials have declined to say how much the modifications
    will cost. But a state government official speaking on condition of
    anonymity last month said it would cost about $50 million to
    retrofit all the Crown Victorias used by police departments
    nationwide.
    "It is a significant cost," Kinley said. "But we know it's
    the right thing to do."
    All new Crown Victoria police cars are being manufactured with
    the shields already built in. The first such cars came off the
    assembly line Monday, Kinley said.
    Ford announced its decision to retrofit the cars last month in
    Arizona, where the state attorney general's office was closely
    involved with the efforts to make the police cars safer. After the
    third Arizona officer died in a fiery crash on June 12, Attorney
    General Janet Napolitano pressed Ford for a recall of all Crown
    Victoria Police Interceptors.
    Ford didn't agree to the recall. Instead, it created two panels
    to study the matter, which led to the recommendation that the cars
    be retrofitted. Ford has maintained that the cars are safe.
    ---
    On the Net:
    Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor site,
    http://www.cvpi.com/
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  20. #20
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default Thanks...

    NJFF- Thank you for the info. I hope the info gets to the
    people in the fire service with Crown Vic as well...Bou

  21. #21
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Unhappy Another tragedy

    DALLAS (AP) - An off-duty Dallas police officer was killed in a
    highway accident when a sport-utility vehicle slammed into the back
    of his slow-moving Ford Crown Victoria squad car, causing it to
    burst into flames.
    Officer Patrick Metzler, 31, died in the early Wednesday morning
    collision. He was an eight-year veteran of the Dallas Police
    Department, and is survived by his parents, brother and sister who
    live out of state.
    Police departments have complained that Crown Victorias are
    prone to catch fire when struck from the rear at high speed because
    the gas tank is positioned behind the rear axle. Metzler's death
    came the same week that Ford officials said new fuel tank shields
    were being sent to dealers.
    At least a dozen officers across the country have been killed in
    fiery crashes in Crown Victorias since 1983.
    Metzler was one of three officers driving slowly along a freeway
    as escorts for a large truck with lighted arrows directing cars
    away from a closed lane, said Dallas Police Department spokeswoman
    Janice Houston.
    Investigators said the driver of the SUV, Jeffrey Goddard, 23,
    of Dallas, swerved in front of the sign truck and struck Metzler's
    vehicle, which was the last of the three police cars.
    Alcohol is suspected as a factor in the crash. Police said
    witnesses reported that the red Jeep had been swerving and
    traveling above the speed limit.
    Goddard and an unidentified passenger were taken to Baylor
    University Medical Center. Goddard suffered a broken hip, and was
    listed in fair condition Wednesday. The passenger suffered minor
    injuries, police said.
    Goddard was booked on suspicion of intoxicated manslaughter.
    Blood alcohol test results will not be available for several days,
    Houston said.
    The fatal collision comes one month after Ford Motor Company's
    announcement that it had concluded a study to determine what
    modifications could be made to police Crown Victoria to reduce the
    possibility of fire in rear-end collisions.
    The study recommended installing a shield kit for certain parts
    along the rear axle to protect the vehicle from puncture sources,
    Ford spokeswoman Sara Tatchio said.
    Ford agreed last month to provide kits for approximately 350,000
    Crown Victorias. The shield kits will start being shipped out
    Monday, Ford spokeswoman Kristin Kinley said.
    She said the shield kits are the first official recommendation
    Ford has made to police departments regarding modifications to
    Crown Victorias.
    However, Dallas police officials said Ford recommended changes
    last October, and that Metzler's vehicle recently had been modified
    in accordance to that recommendation.
    "Basically, the procedural code called for the removal of a
    sharp edge component from the rear axle that could puncture the gas
    tank in a rear-impact collision," said Jennifer Li of the Dallas
    police department.
    The modifications weren't made until September because the
    department did not learn of the recommendation until May 2002, said
    Dallas Police Department Fleet Manager Sgt. Mike Flusche.
    "They didn't advertise it very much," he said.
    Crown Victorias make up 57 percent of the Dallas police fleet,
    Houston said.
    ----
    On the Net:
    http://www.safetyforum.com
    http://www.cvpi.com

    (Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  22. #22
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Post NY Troopers Info

    ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - Ford Crown Victorias that have not been
    retrofitted to prevent fires following violent rear-end collisions
    have been pulled from patrol duty by New York state troopers,
    officials said Thursday.
    State Police Superintendent James McMahon said he has told
    supervisors not to send troopers out in vehicles not retrofitted
    with fuel tank shields.
    There are enough Crown Victorias that have been fitted with the
    shields or non-Crown Victoria vehicles in the State Police fleet to
    keep patrols on the roads throughout the state, the Division of
    State Police said Thursday.
    Earlier in the day, the union representing troopers urged its
    members to refuse to patrol in non-retrofitted Crown Victorias and
    called for all those vehicles to be taken out of service until they
    get shields.
    "It does not seem to be an unreasonable demand for us to say,
    `Park those unsafe cars that are of the type that can explode,"'
    said President Daniel De Federicis of the Police Benevolent
    Association (PBA) of the New York State Troopers.
    The Dec. 19 death of Trooper Robert Ambrose when his troop car
    was rear-ended on the shoulder of the state Thruway in Yonkers may
    have been avoidable, according to De Federicis.
    De Federicis said State Police officials assured the union in
    October that the installation of the fuel tank shields would be a
    top priority. The troop car Ambrose was sitting in when it was
    struck from behind was not retrofitted, however, and De Federicis
    said a large number of other Crown Victorias used by troopers still
    do not have the shields.
    "We do not know if the plastic shield would have ultimately
    saved Trooper Ambrose, but we are outraged that the Division of
    State Police did not take every step to stack the odds in his
    favor," said a letter De Federicis sent to the 3,400 PBA members
    in the State Police force.
    A statement issued by State Police said the whole force mourns
    Ambrose's death.
    "We will not know the answer to the question of whether
    installation of a gas tank shield would have prevented Trooper
    Ambrose's tragic death, until the vehicle is examined by a team of
    independent experts," the statement said.
    Troopers were also sent grievance forms by the PBA to fill out
    if they are ordered to use Crown Victorias that don't have the fuel
    tank shields. Ultimately, troopers would have had to use such
    vehicles if ordered to do so by superiors because to refuse would
    represent an illegal job action under the state's Taylor Law, which
    prohibits strikes by public employees in the state.
    On Christmas Eve, state Sen. Nicholas Spano of Westchester
    County called on police agencies throughout the state to suspend
    purchases of Crown Victorias because of questions about their
    safety.
    At least 13 police officers nationwide have died over the past
    two decades following crashes in which their Crown Victorias caught
    on fire, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety
    Administration. Ford agreed three months ago to install gas tank
    shields on some 350,000 Crown Victorias used in the United States
    as police cruisers.
    De Federicis said the Division of State Police was "furiously
    scrambling" to get the fuel tank shields installed, but that it
    remained unclear what percentage of its Crown Victorias had been
    retrofitted.
    The PBA also called on the Ford Motor Co. to take more
    responsibility for the dangers of rear-end crashes to Crown
    Victorias and to use state-of-the-art technology to improve the
    model's fuel systems.
    Ford spokeswoman Kristen Kinley countered that the Crown
    Victoria is a "safe and effective vehicle for police work."
    "The specific accidents being addressed are rare and extreme,"
    she said. "No one can completely eliminate accidents or take away
    the unpredictability of extremely high-speed crashes. However, we
    believe the enhancements - the shielding kits - will make a
    difference."
    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in
    October that the Crown Victoria exceeds federal standards for fuel
    system safety.

    (Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  23. #23
    Sr. Information Officer
    NJFFSA16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    25 NW of the GW
    Posts
    8,434

    Post New Suit Filed

    NEW YORK (AP) - A police group has filed a lawsuit claiming that
    Ford Motor Co. failed to fix a defect that can cause its Crown
    Victoria police cruisers to erupt in flames when hit from behind.
    The National Police Association, which represents more than
    1,000 police unions around the country, filed the lawsuit Wednesday
    in federal court in New York City.
    Last month, State Trooper Robert Ambrose died on the New York
    State Thruway when a sport utility vehicle rammed into his Crown
    Victoria cruiser. The lawsuit cites Ambrose's death and seven other
    similar accidents.
    Ford denied the cars are dangerous. Company spokeswoman Kathleen
    Vokes told the Daily News the suit was "totally meritless."
    In September, Ford agreed to pay for the installation of shields
    around the gas tanks on police-issued Crown Victorias. Some 350,000
    police cars across the country - about 80 percent of all police
    cruisers - are Crown Victorias.
    The company argues that the real problem, though, is not with
    the car but from the way it is used.
    "(Police officers) are using their vehicles as shields and
    these vehicles are not designed to be shields; they're designed to
    be cars," Ford spokeswoman Carolyn Brown said last month in
    response to a suit filed in Texas. "It's a scenario that spells
    disaster."
    The company said modifications to the consumer version of the
    Crown Victoria are not necessary because most drivers don't submit
    cars to the pressures that police officers do. That argument was
    criticized by former National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
    chief Joan Claybrook, president of the consumer advocacy group
    Public Citizen.

    (Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
    Proudly serving as the IACOJ Minister of Information & Propoganda!
    Be Safe! Lookouts-Awareness-Communications-Escape Routes-Safety Zones

    *Gathering Crust Since 1968*
    On the web at www.section2wildfire.com

  24. #24
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4

    Default Hmm

    IMHO, this is a big stink about nothing. 12 incidents in 20 years of service when hundreds of thousands of the vehicles are on the road is pretty low. Besides, any time you have a container of volatile fuel on board a vehicle and drive into it at 80 mph, what do you think could happen? The deaths are unfortunate and any steps to prevent future ones are great, but I don't think this is a case of Ford building a death trap like I hear everywhere.

  25. #25
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default Give me a break...

    Originally posted by Hooligan
    IMHO, this is a big stink about nothing.
    The deaths are unfortunate and any steps to
    prevent future ones are great, but I don't
    think this is a case of Ford building a death
    trap like I hear everywhere.
    HOOLIGAN- THANKS FOR YOUR OPINION BUT IF FORD
    CAN ADD A PART TO EACH CROWN VIC FOR UNDER
    A MERE $20.00 (HEAT SHIELD) AS A TAX PAYER,
    I THINK ITS WORTH IT. WHAT IF THAT WAS YOU IN
    A FD CROWN VIC AND *YOU* WERE KILLED, SHOULD WE
    THINK THE SAME WAY???
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 02-02-2003 at 06:33 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register