Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience

View Poll Results: If given a choice, which would you purchase?

Voters
90. You may not vote on this poll
  • 100' Ladder Platform

    28 31.11%
  • 75' ladder

    4 4.44%
  • 100' Ladder Platform quint

    47 52.22%
  • 75' ladder quint

    11 12.22%
Closed Thread
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 66
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6

    Question Aerial Ladder versus Ladder Platform

    I need a little help here. I would like to know of any comparisons of ladders versus ladder platforms. Our department is sold on the platform concept, but the council is not. Any help would be appreciated, such as advantages/disadvantages. We have very little manpower, only 5 per shift with 2 stations to cover and our argument is that we could utilize the platform for more situations without the need for additional manpower? Any ideas?


  2. #2
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Birdsboro, PA
    Posts
    967

    Default

    You're missing one thing in your poll, AerialScope.

    They don't fit in any of the categories you've listed and to be honest with you I think they perform better than any of them.

    We recently assisted an neighboring company with a fully involved house fire and had it darkened and under control with 10 minutes of set-up. We used it like they do in FDNY with the front door entry method and it proved it's weight in gold.

    Just my opinion but you should look into and AerialScope also.

    Good luck.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  3. #3
    berkut
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question

    I'm kinda curious about how a platform is going to be so much better manpower wise. From what I can see, they both take about the same amount of time to set up, they both require a man at the turntable, a man at the tip, and if applicable, a man at the pump controls. This sounds more like the classic quint vs. straight ladder battle. I personnally prefer platforms b/c that's what works better in our area. We mainly need aerials for master stream operations and venting,w/ an occasional rescue. If you do alot of rescues, go with the ladder. It's much easier to send folks straight down the ladder vs. through the basket and down. Just my opinion and nothing more.

  4. #4
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6

    Default

    We are a minimally manned department and fiqured that we would operate a platform with maybe 2 persons. Moving equipment, manpower, etc. to a roof could be accomplished with one person in the platform. We currently don't use personnel at the pump, the A/O sets it up and leaves. Just doing what we can with limited resources.

    Don't know much about an aerialscope, any additional info would be appreciated.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Posts
    245

    Default

    Dragon-fyre, could you please tell me the differances between the Aerialscope and the catagory 100' ladder tower listed in the poll?
    Last I knew, Aerialscopes are ladder towers made in 75' and 95' (ok, not 100') configurations.

    We had a drill recently with a mutual aid deptartments 95' scope and our 95' Sutphen tower. We found minimal operational differances.
    The only major things we did find was the Aerialscope could flow about 250 gpm more water but the Sutphen has a better turning radius.
    I'm not looking for any bashing here, just objective differances.

    SFD311, here's a link for Aerialscope: www.aerialscope.com

  6. #6
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,655

    Default

    Anyone know of an Aerialscope with handrails on the ladder? How are they for climbing? If there are 4 adults in the window to rescue and 2 members in the bucket already, can you take all 6 or do you leave some behind? Just curious...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  7. #7
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    For rescue I feel the straight stick wins hands down, is much easier to move on/off a ladder than a platform with all its required safety gates (ours has one on each basket door and one at the top of the ladder). However, when it comes to working of the roof the platform comes into its own, the ability to have a "pile" of equipment and tools right at hand is very nice.

    Three features to consider spec'ing on a platform:

    First a work deck. This is a large lip that you can stand on w/o having to step off the platform and still work on the roof or chimney. Our platform did not come with one (there is a 12" step, not big enough to work a saw from) so its tough to reach out and work a chimney fire (due to having to lean over the rails and the 12" step) and nearly impossible to vent a roof w/o stepping onto the roof. A work deck would give you the option of venting what would otherwise be considered an unsafe roof (especially a truss roof).

    Second, an left-right angling platform so you can "square up" with a window or roof. We ran a simulated rescue a few weeks ago and realised how difficult it is to pass a stokes out a window if the stick is not square to the window sill. There can be a huge gap if you come to the window at say a 35 degree angle and a person who you're trying to rescue might take exception to stepping over that gap.

    Third, an articulating fly section (Bronto's Sky Arm comes to mind). This would really compliment a work deck and allow you to work an entire roof w/o having to step out of the basket. I find that most homes higher than 2 1/2 stories you can only reach the first 6' of the roof from the basket, its nearly impossible to hit the peak due to the angle the stick comes up at.

  8. #8
    Forum Member dragonfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Birdsboro, PA
    Posts
    967

    Default

    SFDchief: the last I knew AerialScopes did not have any rails on the boom ladder as Bones stated. A ladder tower is a ladder with a bucket on the end. A Scope has no "usable" ladder. We recently had an aerial class with several different types of aerials in operation and all those who had never scene a scope in operation were impressed with its' operations.

    Maybe it works differently since it has a solid boom instead of the lattice work of a ladder. Whatever it is, we like it and it is different from anything else.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Posts
    245

    Default

    I understand what you mean about a "usable ladder". However, there still is a ladder going up the boom as demonstrated in this picture:

    http://www.aerialscope.com/images/ne...ad12newdel.jpg

    The purpose of the ladder is for emergency egress from the bucket. Our Sutphen does not have a railed ladder either. It does have the escape ladder like the 'scope.

    To take the discusion one step further, a "ladder truck" per NFPA specs, doesn't even need an aerial device. Just like there are aerial devices on many "engines". A ladder truck does need a minimum requirment of ground ladders (I think 115 feet). It also needs a compliment of portable lights, salvage covers and a specific assortment of hand tools just to name a few things. Years ago, New York City ran these city service ladders to get into tight areas that an aerial device wouldn't fit into.
    Last edited by SFDchief; 10-02-2002 at 01:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    6

    Default

    We opened bids this morning on our ladder specifications and it looks like we'll be getting a Quality Manufacturing/RK Aerials 104' Ladder platform on a Spartan Gladiator chassis. It will have a 500 Gallon tank, 2000 GPM Waterous pump, and 450 HP Cummins engine. Any comments good or bad on this apparatus would be appreciated.

  11. #11
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Posts
    245

    Default

    SFD311, good luck on the new purchase. I personanally don't know anyone that had dealings with Quality or RK Aerials so I can't speculate either way on eithers peroformance.

    While I don't know the demographics of the area your in, I would say the 2000 gpm pump is the way to go. The 450hp Cummins is a good choice too. With the new EPA guidelines coming into effect you will not likely get 450hp out of it.
    Last edited by SFDchief; 10-02-2002 at 05:28 PM.

  12. #12
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    sfd311, sounds like a heavy truck. Our tower is close to 73,000 and we have a 500HP in it, some days I wish it was bigger. If you have any hills you may want to consider a bigger engine. Our engine has a 460HP in it and it's the same block as the 500 so very little price differnce (relatively) between the tow models.

  13. #13
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,993

    Default

    Originally posted by Fire304
    Third, an articulating fly section (Bronto's Sky Arm comes to mind).

    CAREFUL! Don't go confusing quality E-One/Bronto with Pierce/Nova... it's the

    Bronto SkyLift

    and the

    Pierce Sky-Arm
    (which, to its credit, does have a side-to-side platform pivoting feature. just don't expect it to stay in the air

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Posts
    820

    Default

    For clarification, the most commonly accepted types of aerial device classifications are as follows:

    Aerial Ladder - Full service climbing ladder of any length with no
    attached platform.

    Ladder Tower - Full service ladder with attached platform (Pierce,
    E-One and Sutphen if it is equipped with full height handrails, otherwise its an emergency escape ladder).

    Tower Ladder - Boom with ladder for emergency escape use only and
    attached platform. (Aerialscope, Sutphen if not equipped with full height handrails).

    Snorkel - 2 Section articulating aerial device with attached
    platform and no attached ladder.

    Quint - Combination of any of the above, in any length, with
    requisite pump, tank, hose bed and ground ladders.

    Squrt - 2 section articulating master stream device with no
    attached ladder.

    Tele-Squrt - Telescoping elevated master stream with
    attached ladder. Collapsable handrails available.

    Bronto / Sky Arm - Damn good question. They have a full service ladder until the articulating fly section so I don't know.

    Just some thoughts.
    Last edited by STATION2; 10-05-2002 at 04:25 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

  15. #15
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Question Sky Pipe??

    A little off topic, but if you have a waterway installed on either the Sky-Arm or Sky-Lift with an articulating last fly section, does the waterway go to the end, or does it stop at the 2nd from last fly section?

  16. #16
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    1,993

    Default

    They can both flow water up to the platform.

    E-One/Bronto SkyLift


    Notice the flexible black piping.


    Pierce Sky-Arm


    Oops wrong picture.


    Here we go. Before it fell from the sky: notice the piping up to the last fly... (kinda hard to see with the other stick there)...appears to be a swivel joint or flex piping.


    A different Sky-Arm, showing that indeed it can flow water from the lofty height of 35ish feet... dunno if it's maxed out there or if she can go higher while flowing. I'm sure there's a PDF file somewhere on Pierce's site with this information...
    Last edited by Resq14; 10-08-2002 at 12:35 AM.

  17. #17
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default Answered my own Q

    Went to Bronto's web site and saw several pic's of basket mounted master streams, so I guess they have a pipe to the tip. Also appears you can have hand rails all the way to the tip, see the photo of a Dallas crash truck below.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  18. #18
    Forum Member Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default WOW

    Check out this set. Notice no outriggers either.
    Bronto makes these things up to 88meters!
    That's 300' for us non-metric types!
    What a stick. Dad, can I have one for Christmas??
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Fire304; 10-06-2002 at 07:16 PM.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2

    Default go platform

    we are a smaLL town fire department with a elevated water need, when i done the research, and explained all the advantages of a platform, for rescue and not just the firefighting aspect it was a easy sell to the city council. by the way we are all volunter dept and shortly after we got the truck we were able to use it to get a person with a medical problem off a two story building with ease and little man power, also made it easy to get parmedics to the man quicker and start treatment better than if we had to use ropes.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Outside Philadelphia
    Posts
    519

    Default

    Holy ***** Batman, almost 7 years!!
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts