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  1. #1
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Ladder truck w/pump+tank (pictures)

    I know you guys dont like this concept, but with
    funds getting tighter and more demands for service,
    I think we'll be seeing more of these. A truck
    company aka ladder with a tank and pump.

    I personally like the idea. Get a basic contents
    room fire or vehicle fire and you are making some
    progress vs. telling a "customer" aka citizen
    "We dont carry water, sorry."

    Anyways, heres the photos, sorry about the lighting.
    Attached Images Attached Images  


  2. #2
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Picture #2

    Picture #2, Please let me know what you think.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  3. #3
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Here, I have an idea! Why don't we take 2 pieces of apparatus - an engine and a truck - sell them both, and buy one of these! Take 4 of the 8 guys who were on the original engine and truck, put them on this piece, make them do twice the work with half the people, and we'll fire the other four! That way, we'll save money on salaries, we won't have to raise taxes this year, and we can screw the firemen once again!

    Stay Safe

  4. #4
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    While I have to agree with PA Volunteer, that is a very nice looking truck!

    *Mark
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  5. #5
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Thumbs down PA Volunteer...open your mind...

    Guess we have had different experiences or
    backgrounds in the quint area. I think you
    need to relax and open your mind.

    As far as I know (and this is only me) the
    truck companys aka "ladders" have ALWAYS
    been there and in service. Yes, no one has
    been fired.

    THE CONCEPT (not new either)- Just adding a
    pump and tank to an already existing, in-service
    truck. ANOTHER TOOL TO BE USED TO SERVE THE PUBLIC.

    This actual truck is the perfect example. The
    apparatus that was PREVIOUS to the new one was
    ALWAYS in service but just old and needed to be
    replaced. It was a typical ladder with NO pump.
    THEN it was replaced with a NEW truck and an extra
    bonus. Nothing changed except a new truck...Get it???

    I think you get the picture now. AGAIN, no one was
    fired, no taxes raised. You can remove foot from mouth.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 10-15-2002 at 03:25 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member 90Truck's Avatar
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    Exclamation yep

    that is a very mean lookin truck, but i too must agree with PA. i do like the truck though!
    Matt G. Warminster Fire Dept. Station 90
    IAFF Local F-106

  7. #7
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    Default

    The bottom line here is you put water and a pump on a ladder truck and it becomes a quint. Now instead of dispatching 2 engines and a truck on a fire, you get an engine and a quint. Where I come from you go from having 9 people to having six (3 per unit). I would rather have a truck with no pump or water to keep the extra 3 guys on scene. I think that is what PA Volunteer is really getting at, not that the apparatus would be sold to purchase this quint.
    I still think it is a good looking rig.

    *Mark
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  8. #8
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Hmmm....

    1. I am glad you guys like the truck. Since you do,
    I will try to make a special trip there again to
    get a better shot just for you. (I didnt plan on
    taking pics of the truck this trip, just their new
    engine..look for it in the apparatus section soon)

    2. PLEASE UNDERSTAND WHAT I AM SAYING. I think things
    are just different out here in the West Coast
    because Ladders having a pump and tank is NOT to
    "kill manpower, etc". It is just and enhancement to
    an existing apparatus.

    PLEASE TELL ME IF I AM NOT SAYING IT CORRECTLY.
    I DONT THINK YOU GUYS GET WHAT I AM TYPING. THANK YOU.

  9. #9
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Hey Bouk - there is no need for me to remove any foot from any mouth. Furthermore, you are the one who needs to relax, my comments were not directed at you personally. I have no idea how that piece of apparatus is being used.

    The quint concept has been used over and over again to justify the downsizing of fire departments. That is what is wrong with the quint concept - and its application. If you disagree with that, you need to get out more.

    Used in the correct manner, I have nothing against the quint concept. The best fire departments have firemen dedicated to doing one task, while having skills that will enable them to do that task safely. A quint with 10 personnel has the ability to be a great piece - as long as you have 5 guys dedicated to doing engine work, and 5 guys dedicated to doing truck work.

    Almost exclusively, however, the quint is manned with 4 or 5 firemen, who have the task of doing whatever job is needed when they happen to arrive on scene. They end up doing a bunch of jobs pretty well, instead of excelling at one job. It waters down all the skills found on the fire scene. All too often, it forces firemen to do twice the work with half the personnel.

    Glad to hear that this piece was not used to consolidate an engine and a truck company. Hopefully, it will be used in the correct manner.

    Stay Safe

  10. #10
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Ugh....

    Originally posted by PA Volunteer
    Hey Bouk - there is no need for me to remove any foot from any mouth. Furthermore, you are the one who needs to relax, my comments were not directed at you personally. I have no idea how that piece of apparatus is being used.
    Geez-I dont know how many more times I would need to type
    this. I have explained already how it was used, didnt
    you read? I will break it down for you more so you can
    understand. (grunt, grunt)

    Step #1- Both engine and OLD ladder (no pump) both
    in service, FULLY MANNED, good. (ugh, ugh)

    Step #2- Ladder truck broke, no workie. This Bad!

    Step #3- Department orders new Ladder with pump.
    (New toy- yeeeaa!! This make happy)

    Step #4- Again, both engine and NEW ladder (w/pump)
    in service, FULLY MANNED as before. (This is good,
    Fireman smile, do the "happy dance".)

    I think that is pretty clear, right? YES, I understand
    YOUR Chief/Bean-counter/fire the Firefighters concept.
    (That bad) But that didnt happen here AND IT IS NOT THE
    STANDARD FOR EVERY PLACE. (That good)

    Oh- I think the tractor was built by HME and the trailor was
    Westates. (happy dance again)

    Thanks...
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 10-15-2002 at 04:36 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default

    (GRUNT)
    Mark understand, understood from first explanation...
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  12. #12
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ugh....

    Originally posted by brettbouk
    I dont know how many more times I would need to type
    this. I have explained already how it was used, didnt
    you read. I will break it down for you more so you can
    understand. Geez...
    That is why I said this.
    Originally posted by PA Volunteer
    Glad to hear that this piece was not used to consolidate an engine and a truck company. Hopefully, it will be used in the correct manner.
    Want to explain it for us again?

    Stay Safe

  13. #13
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Ugh again...

    Hopefully, it will be used in the correct manner.
    Always was used in correct manner. Now with a bonus!

    Bro- I think every one caught my point the first time around
    except you. I thought my explaination of the whole purchase
    was pretty clear.

    The bottom line- I like the concept (with no one fired). More
    often than not, the ladder might be the only unit to respond
    to working house fire and that little 200-300 gallon tank of
    water might be the difference in saving a life and thats
    why we (or atleast me) are here. (Grunt, me Fireman now stand,
    pick knuckes off of ground and cheer!)

    Ugh, ugh, me tired now. Knuckles dragging up from ground
    to type make Fire-Cave-Man hungry. Time to smoke peace
    pipe and hug......
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 10-15-2002 at 04:32 PM.

  14. #14
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Default

    My point was ...

    A lot of things start out as good ideas, with good intentions, are very innocent ... down the road, those intentions can be twisted, and when something powerful falls into evil hands, the safety of the free world is at stake (overdramatization for effect)!

    Hence ... Hopefully, it will be used in the correct manner.

    I understand what you are saying. Hopefully that will remain true for years to come. That is my point.

    Stay Safe

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber SIGNAL99COM's Avatar
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    Angry Wait A Minute!

    brettbouk - Nice truck, nice photos, all Truck companies should have a pump, hose, and at least 300 gal. of water.

    PA Vol - I agree with you when it comes to a career department. In career departments, the apparatus should remain seperate. Never do away with a true Truck Company and replace it with a Quint, bad move!

    As for Mark440 - SUICIDE COMPANIES RIDE WITH (3) PERSONNEL! Engine Companies and Truck Companies should both be manned with a minimum of (4) personnel. There is a reason why fire apparatus comes with a minimum of (4) seats. My department rides with (6) on the Engine and (6) on the Truck. Three man companies should be illegal in the US!
    Chris Shields
    Lieutenant / EMT
    Haz-Mat Technician
    East Syracuse Fire Dept
    Onondaga County, NY

  16. #16
    Jolly Roger
    Firehouse.com Guest

    Question Specifications

    How about more specifications on the truck?
    • How big is the stick?
    • How many of what size ground ladders does it have?
    • How much of what sizes of hose does it carry?
    • How big is the tank?
    • How big is the pump?
    • How is it staffed?
    • What other equipment does it have?

    I'd like to see more pictures if you have time.
    Thanks,
    Ken

  17. #17
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    Default

    Well put.

  18. #18
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    Default

    I think it is a good idea to have a pump with the truck. For this reason--

    You all know the day will come when you have an engine company on a box alarm in the next district/town and you have a couple of emergenices of your own. Well guess who can do some work now? The truck can put out fire! YAYAYAY

    But seriously, this just opens the options for 'Just in Case' circumstanes
    Not necessarily the views of my dept., village, nor residents.

  19. #19
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Wow...

    All I wanted to do was just share these photos with
    you guys, not stir up the hornets nest. To Jolly Roger-
    here is their website- http://fire.ucdavis.edu . I will
    try to get more pictures for you and everyone else!

    Also, I think the Huntington Beach, CA Fire Dept. was
    the first to add a tank to a tiller ladder truck.
    (I might be wrong) They might be able to give you some
    insight as well.

    Thanks, Brett

    PS- I am with Mark on the issue. I dont know why/where
    there has to be 4 people on a truck. 3 Firefighters
    work just fine. And Marky, I like RED too, but I am
    not a Chief yet either.
    Last edited by CALFFBOU; 10-16-2002 at 03:21 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Wait A Minute!

    Originally posted by SIGNAL99.COM
    As for Mark440 - SUICIDE COMPANIES RIDE WITH (3) PERSONNEL! Engine Companies and Truck Companies should both be manned with a minimum of (4) personnel. There is a reason why fire apparatus comes with a minimum of (4) seats. My department rides with (6) on the Engine and (6) on the Truck. Three man companies should be illegal in the US!
    When you grow up and become my Chief, you can feel free to lecture me on stuff that is plainly obvious everyday I go to work! But until then have a "Spoonfull 'O shut the hell up". You don't think I know what I ride isn't safe? Thanks for stating the obvious! You'll make a great Chief someday, but why don't you break the mold and kindly show me (and the rest of my department and every other department in this country) how to put 4 men on a company with the finances we already have. You think I'm getting paid extra to ride short? Maybe you think my Chief is keeping that extra 4 mens' salaries' for himself. Hmmm, maybe next year he will hire you to run our website with the money he is saving by only running 3 man companies.

    I still think the truck in the picture is good looking, be better if it was RED.

    -----> I have to add one last thing, if "there is a reason fire apparatus comes with a minimum of (4) seats" then please tell me, Mr. 99 Fire Chief wannabe, how come you can order a two door commercial chasis fire apparatus with only (Hold onto your keyboards here) THREE (3) seats? Whats up with that? I wonder if the apparatus makers know you aren't approving of this concept! But wait, who cares what you think?

    Thanks Brett!

    *Mark
    Last edited by mark440; 10-16-2002 at 06:51 PM.
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

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