1. #1
    Senior Member
    Dalmatian90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    3,120

    Default Heavy Truck...food for thought...

    Worcester, MA yesterday:





    3 hurt as truck falls off ramp
    Wednesday, October 23, 2002

    By Martin Luttrell and Kathleen A. Shaw
    Telegram & Gazette Staff


    WORCESTER-- Three city residents were hurt and traffic in the northern part of the city was snarled yesterday after a tanker truck loaded with plastic pellets plunged off an overpass, landing on two vehicles on Gold Star Boulevard.
    The accident occurred at 11:30 a.m., after the tanker turned from West Boylston Street -- which is the southbound side of Route 12 -- onto the ramp that joins Interstate 190 south, according to Trooper Sean P. O'Brien. The tanker began to roll and went over the side of the overpass, pulling the cab with it.
    The tanker fell 26 feet, landing on a Lincoln Continental and a Toyota RAV4 that were heading north on Gold Star Boulevard, which is Route 12 north.
    The truck cab landed on its roof. A car passing by on Gold Star Boulevard ran over debris from the truck, and the driver of the unidentified car, who was not injured, left after giving a statement to police. He was not identified.
    All three injured people were admitted to local hospitals.
    The driver of the tanker truck, Jose Adorno, 46, of Queen Street, was listed in stable condition last night at St. Vincent Hospital at Worcester Medical Center.
    Yasmin Nizamani of Otsego Road was listed in serious condition last night at the UMass Memorial Medical Center -- University Campus. She turns 43 today.
    Robert Daniels of Tacoma Street, the driver of the Lincoln, was listed in fair condition at UMass last night.
    Phil Harris, who pumps gas at Rick Ramstrom's Chadwick Square Texaco on West Boylston Street, said he went outside, heard a crash, looked around and saw the truck go over a wall of the ramp.
    “I had never seen anything like that in my life,” he said. He ran back into the service station to call 911, while two other service technicians were heading out the door with fire extinguishers.
    Mr. Ramstrom said Steve Ferron and John Desrosiers were among the first to arrive at the accident scene. He said the truck was on its side and the diesel engine was still running.
    “They shot the fire extinguisher into the air cleaner, which stalled the engine,” he said. Mr. Ramstrom said he was busy in the station when Mr. Harris came running in yelling, “Oh my God!”
    Mr. Ferron said that when he got to the accident scene, the truck driver was out of the truck and was talking.
    Mr. Ferron next checked the man in the green Lincoln. “He was within 3 inches of being killed,” he said. The roof had crashed in just behind him and the windshield was down around him.
    Henry Witham of Salem, who works at the nearby Halloween Outlet on West Boylston Street, said he literally gave Mr. Daniels the shirt off his back. Mr. Witham said he was in traffic when he saw what looked like smoke or steam and realized there had been a bad accident.
    He managed to get to the man trapped in the Lincoln, and saw that he was bleeding heavily. Mr. Witham took his shirt off to put it around the victim's bleeding head and others took off jackets to create a barrier between the man and the broken glass around him. He confirmed the description Mr. Ferron gave of the condition of the car.
    Mr. Ferron said he also checked on the woman in the Toyota, and said she appeared to be in better condition and was talking.
    Worcester firefighters used power tools to cut the two cars open to free the drivers. Neither car was carrying passengers, police said.
    State police Lt. Thomas B. Duffy said during a press conference at the accident scene that he heard an initial report that indicated that the truck rolled over after being cut off on the ramp, but that police are not looking for another vehicle in connection with the accident.
    The tanker truck, owned by Giroux Bros. Transportation Inc. on Ballard Street, had picked up a load of plastic pellets and was headed to Fitchburg, according to Lt. Duffy. He did not know why the driver took the route onto I-190 south.
    Trooper O'Brien said the ramp, which curves sharply before passing over Gold Star Boulevard, has not been the scene of many accidents.
    Trooper O'Brien said he interviewed Mr. Adorno, and is looking into the statement that the driver made. He declined to comment further on the driver's statement.
    He did say that investigators were looking into the possibility of another vehicle being involved. “At this time, we don't have any reason to believe there was another car involved,” he said.
    The tanker came to rest on its left side, blocking Gold Star Boulevard. Diesel fuel and coolant that leaked were absorbed by sand and pads and did not enter any catch basins, according to Fire Department District Chief Ronald A. DeFusco.
    “We were initially told that there was a major spill, but that was not the case,” he said.
    The ramp from Route 12 south to I-190 south remained closed during the cleanup, as did Gold Star Boulevard. Traffic was detoured off Gold Star Boulevard at Ruthven Avenue, to go around the accident scene, and officers were posted at several side streets to prevent traffic from approaching Gold Star Boulevard.
    Traffic quickly became gridlocked and police closed off some side streets in the area until the scene was cleaned up. The truck and tanker trailer were righted and towed away, and the road reopened about 7 p.m., police said.
    The ramp from I-190 north to Gold Star Boulevard, which enters Route 12 north of the accident scene, was shut down briefly, said Trooper O'Brien. Other than that, Gold Star Boulevard was open to traffic immediately north of the accident scene, he said.
    I-190 and Interstate 290, about a half-mile to the south, remained open, but drivers on I-190 were delayed by motorists who stopped, some in the breakdown lane, to look at the accident, he said.
    Side streets off Gold Star Boulevard were choked as drivers tried to evade the gridlocked road. At 2 p.m. the three-quarter-mile ride between Gold Star Boulevard and Burncoat Street, via Millbrook Street, took 20 minutes. A police officer was posted at Burncoat and Millbrook to prevent traffic from heading west on Millbrook toward Gold Star Boulevard.
    Some businesses on Gold Star Boulevard saw a slowdown as access was cut off. The lunch hour at Crown Bakery, usually a busy time, saw no more than a few customers at a time, said manager Genie Tsapralis.
    “It's slow. We've had a trickle of customers. Usually it's too busy to talk,” she said to a reporter.


  2. #2
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    WOW, thank God it was not a gas or oil tanker, or something worse!

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA
    Posts
    985

    Default

    Bet it was an interesting ride.

    This struck me as inventive:

    He said the truck was on its side and the diesel engine was still running. “They shot the fire extinguisher into the air cleaner, which stalled the engine,” he said.
    Anybody else ever do this if you can't get to the ignition or battery?
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  4. #4
    Member

    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Cypress Creek, Houston TX
    Posts
    36

    Default

    Whoever was in the green car is a very lucky person. I wonder if the pellets caused any kind of footing problems for the rescuers?

    Andy

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Originally posted by SilverCity4
    Anybody else ever do this if you can't get to the ignition or battery?
    Did it two weeks ago on a Toyota, early 80's model, had 300K miles on it. The engine had over heated and the owner pulled into the local supermarket, shut the engine off and it didn't stop. He poped the hood and the engine had gotten so hot it was melting the plastic that was attached to it, and still running at a reduced RPM. Chief got on scene first and tried to snuff it out with his golved hand, but it was too hot to hold. When I got there with the engine we used a CO2 and it killed the engine in about 2 seconds.

    If you ever have to do this, the CO2 will do the least amount of damage. A dry chem will ruin the engine, very corrosive, and water my cause serious internal damage.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    That had to hurt!In this case where the Eng was still running upside down the Ins. co. is going to "toast" the entire power unit.If you were to view the "hoss" unprighted I'll bet it's one twisted sister.Pellets should have pretty well stayed in the trailer.Why he was on 190 is a bit of a mystery though,not the way I'd go to Fitchburg.T.C.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Dalmatian90's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Posts
    3,120

    Default

    I-190 is the way you'd go north from Worcester to Fitchburg, say you just got a load of plastics from a railyard in Worcester.

    Why he was south on I-190 is a bit of mystery! Makes me wonder if the driver was distracted by suddenly realizing he goofed and took the wrong ramp contributed to the accident. BTW, I've taken that ramp hundreds of times in a pickup, and it's a tight curve for an interstate. Not the worst I've seen, but pushing the limits of good engineering practice.

    Another point I just thought of, what was the fire load!?!? Granted it would be difficult to ignite, but if the trailer had opened up, and there was a car fire or something similiar to start the fire...

  8. #8
    FIGJAM
    lutan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    I come from The Land Down Under!
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    With regards to the use of an extinguisher to stall the motor, as an ex-installer of "fixed fire systems" on heavy vehicles, it's common practice over here in Oz for a Dry Chem system to be plumbed into the turbo's or the air intake to do exactly as was done on this job....

    Other options are for foam deluge systems to be installed in and around the engine bay, but these onloy work for an actual fire or very hot engine- they won't stall the engine as a dry chem in the air intake would....
    Luke

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Dal,Thanks for picking up on my omission.What I had meant was what you mentioned,he was going the wrong way!Fire load?Ooooh lots of BTU's and black smoke.Enough to keep even a Adze happy.T.C.

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Originally posted by lutan1
    it's common practice over here in Oz for a Dry Chem system to be plumbed into the turbo's or the air intake
    Ouch, the engine manufacturers must love that, dry chem into the bearings of a turbo? Wow! Dry chem is extremely corrosive, might as well use salt water with extra salt added .

    Up here we usually install some sort of damper on the intake to shut the air flow off. Was very common on older Detriot 2-stokes, don't see it as much any more since moden engines tend to turn off when you want them to. Some moden fire apparatus have dampers to shut down in the event you end up in a flammable vapor atmosphere, such as down wind of a propane leak.

    Very large engine installations (such as on a ship) usually have fixed systems of CO2 or Halon which are wired to automatically shut down the engine (via fuel solenoid) plus any ventilation systems when fired. If the air intake is in the compartment then that will also kill the engine.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Maybe I should have said "very large by FD standards" although even that's not quite right. I've seen fixed systems on engines as small as 10HP in a sail boat, although that one was not wired to the engine. I have a Fireboy watching over the 250HP Cat I have in the boats I am currently working. It is wired through the fuel solenoid to kill the engine if tripped, and I have a bypass switch in the cab to restart if need be.

  12. #12
    FIGJAM
    lutan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    I come from The Land Down Under!
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    Can you guys still get and use Halon?

    It's highly illegal to own or use it in Australia. All fixed systems are now either CO2 or FM200.

    The only people I know of that can still get Halon manufactured and installed in Australia is the Navy, Air Force and the major airlines due to the effects on either the craft or the people if they were to use Dry Chem Powder, CO2, Water or Foam....

    I beleive fines of upto $5000 for individuals and somewhere in the vicinity of $25,000 for corporations if they don't have permits.

    For those that may not be aware- it's Ozone depleting. It contains CFC's...

    Luke

  13. #13
    FIGJAM
    lutan1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    I come from The Land Down Under!
    Posts
    1,833

    Default

    My reference to it being illegal applies to here in Australia.

    Can't own it, can't use, can't discharge it!
    Luke

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    drkblram, according the the "Halon Users National Consortium" halon may still be purchased (although not manufactured) until Dec 31st, 2002 and existing systems do not need to be decommisioned until Dec 31st, 2003 per the Montreal Protocol. It has been illegal to make or import CFC's since 93 (although there is an exemption for "developing nations" extending their use until 2010).

    When we spec'd replacing the 1301 system in the Corwith Cramer's ER, a single 100lbs bottle of halon needed to be replaced with 6 CO2's. We had not checked into FM200 or Halotron at that time, but they may be considering it now as the drop dead date approaches. It might be a good time to buy stock in halon alternative manufacturers

    The old USNS ship you mentioned, is that the old Maine w/ the steam drive?

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    I'm not gonna dig back through the sites I did last night, but Halons recieved a special extention over other CFC's since they were so useful. There still is another extention allowing their use beyond 03 in aircraft and there is a catch all which allows the military to continue to use Halon, so even after 2003 there will still be some systems in use. I'd be willing to bet there is even some halon systems in use on Aussie military aircraft with US roots.

    I have no experiance with halon alternatives, but from what I've read I'd be very sceptical of claims of equal ability. If there was anything better than Halon the military would have replaced their Halon systems as soon as it proved out.

    I've also seen some AFFF extinguishers being marketed as Halon replacments as well as the water mist systems. I am very interested in those mist systems, sound like a great alternative in sealed engine spaces. One report I read claimed that in a fire on a Carnival ship it even extinguished the burning puddle of fuel under an engine recently. I suppose the trick is early activation. Benifits are no clean up, no corrosion, minimal flooding, no enviromental hazards (other than some steam generation, but that would dissapate quickly). I am hopeful that we will see some version of water mist see its way to shore where it might go a long way to relieve the misplaced fears of flooding, water damage, and high water usage which currently conspire to keep home systems from gaining wide spead acceptance.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    The biggest obstacle to water mist, as I see it, is the need for higher pressures than are normally generated in water system. This is takled on ships with a pressurize water tank and a bottle of gas which pushes the water out through the sprinkler heads. The heads, much like a pressure washer, need several hundred if not over a thousand PSI to produce the propper mist. The system, like the fixed systems it replaces, is a one shot deal.

    Its possible we'll see a pump driven system made with off the shelf pressure washer technology, but I doubt it would hold up to NFPA and ISO tourture testing.

    On the otherhand, flexible hose could be used to connect sprinklers, and it would be much smaller than current pipe required for sprinklers.

    Like you, I think this is the future in sprinkler tech, its a few years out, but once it gains wide spread acceptance at sea, it might crawl ashore.

    No life hazard after activation (CO2 and Halon both create hazardous enviroments), no worries about contamination (Dry chem is highly corrosive and not good around food products).

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Did a little digging around on the web, looks like they are one step ahead of us drkblram...

    http://www.reliablefire.com/portable...nguishers.html
    http://www.h3r.com/products/water_mist.htm
    http://www.nrc.ca/irc/newsletter/v6n...guisher_e.html
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Clermont County, Ohio
    Posts
    569

    Default Required Pressures For Water Mist Extinquishers

    What pressure is required for the water mist extinguishers? Normal pressure-water extinguishers require 100 PSI, which makes in-station recharging easy. Many stations, like mine, add AFFF, cold clean, dish washing liquid, or other agents to improve performance.

    I'm curious if the water mist extinguishers could be recharged in-house. None of the links mentioned operating pressures.

    Thanks.
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    I really don't know, but taking an educated guess...

    The cans shown in the photos look like regular water cans, not any more beefy than normal, and the gauge also looks like a normal gauge. One of the sites claimed an 8 minute application time, much longer than a normal PW, so I would say its probably a 100lbs can.

    The fixed systems that drkblram and I are talking about, however, are much higher flow rates and much higher pressures.

    Here's a link to a USNavy test ship where they are testing new "damage control" technology. There is a write up on the water mist system aboard this test ship(uses a 220gpm, 1000psi pump) and if you click on the "water mist" link on the page it will show a video of the system in use. The video takes a long time to download, but it shows some fire. There is also a video link titled "back draft video" at the bottom, have not yet looked at it.

    http://chemdiv-www.nrl.navy.mil/6180/6186.html

    The photo below is of a typical engine room system from a cruise ship.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Fire304's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    At the Helm
    Posts
    1,174

    Default

    Will look for it!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register