1. #1
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    Default That time of year...

    As the cold moves in and the heaters or wood stoves begin to fire up seems to be when our jobs kick into over drive. Here is the picture and article of todays fire http://www.ludingtondailynews.com/ne...67c9bd4fc8156f .. Seeing what you see how or what would your fire attack on a steel Garage fully involved be.

    We had 2 engines working on this fire one on side a and the other side c (front and back) with 3 engines and 2 ladders on scene at staging. Fire started around 7:00am in a industrial building with dumptrucks and a machine shop involved.. Upon Chief on scene reporting as fully engulfed paged another alarm. The attack which started as 2 cross lay's 1 and 3/4 lines on side a where used initialy and the same for side c. After finding the fire load was more than expected we switch to 2, 2 1/2's and kept the 1 3/4 lines flowing. there was 4 steel over head doors... the K12 saw was used to open the doors to gain entry as all doors were locked. Fire was knocked down shorlty there after.

    Knowing that this building construction of a pole building type and the saftey factors of "light weight trusses" what would your fire attack have been?
    There's an old saying around the firehouse."You
    don't have to watch your back, because you know someone else is watching it for you"

  2. #2
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    Unhappy Where's the help??

    Is the small amount of FD equipment responding on this alarm because of a lack of equipment in your area, or a Lack of desire to call for more?? I am not faulting anyones tactics here, just asking about the availability of resources. In my area this would have been (based on the photo) probably a two alarm fire. A commercial structure such as this would get a MINIMUM of 4 engines, 2 ladders, 1 heavy rescue, and a couple of EMS units. Oh yeah, don't forget the 5 or 6 Chiefs. Each additional alarm gets the same amount. It's never been done, but we think our mutual aid system is strong enough to build a 50 (thats right, fifty) alarm response, plus coverage of vacant stations in about 2 hours time. The photo indicates that this is a ladder pipe and deck gun job, at least for the 10 minutes that it takes to flatten the bulk of the fire. If there is a truss roof, or any roof with significant damage, then almost all of the water will be applied from outside. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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  3. #3
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    Well we had about 40 personel on scene, and a total of 5 Engines, 2 Ladders, EMS, and heavy Rescue. The Structure sat in a hard position to get more than 2 Engines close enough to be effective without running over 400+ feet of 1 3/4 lines. There were only 2 hydrants within the area that was about 500 feet. As all out Engines only have about 500 feet of 5" portable water main. This building was heavily involved and partial roof calapse had been present upon first Engine in. No firemen were sent in as no life was in the structure, and was mearly a defensive mode. With the roof already clapsed and the fire load the contents i am sure was already destroyed. Mutual aid was called but only 2 departments we have a mutal aid system also that could have been placed to 3 other departments witch would have allowed 5 departments on scene. But the chief felt the fire had progressed so fast with the fire load that saving any type of items was gonna be slim. Thanks for you comments woods i like to hear how or what other departments would do and maybe pick up or drop some ideas..
    There's an old saying around the firehouse."You
    don't have to watch your back, because you know someone else is watching it for you"

  4. #4
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    First things first, leave the 1-3/4" on the piece. Big fire, big water. What about a portable deck gun in a door? Was it possible to get an aerial stream into operation?

  5. #5
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    We might have been able to get the 75' E-one stick in there but the power lines over head would have limited the area of swivel. Master streams or deck guns would have been nice but with the steel overhead doors and the flames coming out the eve's could only make openings with the k12 tword the bottom of the doors making it hard to make any type of master stream effective. Maybe pulling 2 1/2 earlier might have knocked it down faster. The first Engine crew working on it (including me) pulled 1 3/4 hoping that entry would have been easier and fire could get knocked down.
    There's an old saying around the firehouse."You
    don't have to watch your back, because you know someone else is watching it for you"

  6. #6
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    my main concern is what exactly were the contents of the building? i read a furnace was in there and the pilot was worked on and relit. also there were tanks for filling propane and acetylene in there. if preplan has any info then i might have gone with the 2 inch right off the bat and gone defensive with no interior attack at all. but it sounds like y'all adapted well and did what y'all could.
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
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  7. #7
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    Thanks ryan, the contents was not really preplaned we work off the volenteer system and our community is growing at such a rate its hard to visit every facility although all newer places are inspected. This guy had been in buisness for 50 some years and had accumulated lots of Metal working Machinery and dumptruck's with the propane and acetylene tanks used for repairing the vehicles at the time there was only 1 dumptruck in that was having the engine replaced. Other contents included 50 gallon drums of oil and some tires. I agree pulling the 2 1/2 right off the bat would have been a better choice but the man power of the first Engine we opt to pull, 1 3/4 to make it look like an attemp was being made with the owner watching us.. as the second Engine arrived 2 1/2 was brought into play. Preplan would have benifited us greatly as the contents would have prepared us for a better attack.
    There's an old saying around the firehouse."You
    don't have to watch your back, because you know someone else is watching it for you"

  8. #8
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    yeah, it sounds like you were behind the 8-ball from the beginning. Out of curiosity, how was the business doing? Kinda raises some flags, owner working on a radiant heater, relights it and goes for coffee. Heater explodes? That would probably account for the partial collapse of the roof though.

  9. #9
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    Yea i dont know exactly how the buisness was doing they contract alot around the area with there services and do alot of plowing but i dont know as to the extent.. Hes does work in a small building tho for the amount of equipment but hey who knows.. lol thanks quint and yea i thought we were behind the 8 ball to start also just was seeing what everybody else might have done.. its interesting to see all the ideas i like this kind of constructive critizizm..
    There's an old saying around the firehouse."You
    don't have to watch your back, because you know someone else is watching it for you"

  10. #10
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    That might have been a good idea drk with the portable monitors... We only have one and the others are truck mounted.. they can be taken off but would take forever to set up. I like the idea of that tho.. thanks.
    There's an old saying around the firehouse."You
    don't have to watch your back, because you know someone else is watching it for you"

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