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  1. #1
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    Question,

    This question is about Resolution 43. I did not put that in the subject to try to avoid a fight.

    If you are going to start bashing anyone DO NOT post.
    This is in no way meant to start a fight.

    I would like to know the exact wording of this resolution.
    I have seen many fights about this and I feel I can not make
    a decision on the issue without knowing exactly what it says.

    If the webteam reads this I request the first time this turns into a
    ****ing match to close this thread. Thank you.

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    I am unfamiliar with Res 43, do you have a URL so I can read about it?

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    Mike W, I can't give you all the legalese wording, but it basically states that if a person is a member of an IAFF Local, they may not volunteer in any jurisdiction that has an IAFF Local. If they choose to ignore this rule, they can be placed on charges and if found guilty by a trial board, they can be dropped from the Local they hold membership in. I also believe that if they wish to continue volunteering, if they don't want to be bought up on charges, they may resign from the IAFF and turn in their union cards.

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    So it says they can not volunteer where there is
    another local. But they can volunteer if there isn't one.

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    Mike, go to WWW.Kentland33.com, they have plenty of info on Resolution 43 and I think they even have a copy of it. This rule was dug out of the IAFF Constitution and By-Laws because a Career Firefighter in PG County had a dispute with a Volunteer Chief who happened to be a DC Firefighter.

    The rule basically says that an IAFF member cannot engage in Labor Practices with any "Rival Organization" and then went to list all Volunteer Corporations in PG County as "Rivals." Now if the IAFF is so hell-bent on this not being a "Volunteer/Career" issue, why is my Volunteer Fire Company listed as a "Rival Organization" to the IAFF and not just the members in question that belong to my volunteer company? The original list of Members being placed on charges by Local 1619 was comical at best. Half of the member listed were no longer active volunteers and a few were not even members of the IAFF. See if you work for DCFD/EMS bureau, you are not an IAFF member...and they had several EMT's and Medics from DCFD listed. This is solely an effort by IAFF local 1619 to rid Prince Georges and Montgomery Counties of volunteer firefighters so the Local can make more money from the people they have to hire to replace us. More Union Firefighters = More Dues collected by the IAFF locals. Its purely political and driven by the greediness of the individual locals and the pettiness of their officials who would love nothing more than to see volunteer firefighters out of the picture in the Metro DC area. It has nothing to do with Labor at all. See what they do not realize, is that if all the Volunteers quit, the Jurisdictions would simply make the remaining career staff work longer hours (Goodbye 24/72, HELLO 24/24!) and close firehouses. Fire and EMS is not a priority in this area and Local Govts do what they can to cut corners.
    You Waste your time, YOUR LINE IS MINE!

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    CW,

    With that reply I thank you for the link, but
    you are boarding on starting a fight. As a volunteer
    also I am trying to find out what this huge fight is
    over. Please refrain from any refrences to the IAFF only
    trying to make more money or any other comment that puts
    them in a negative light. That is not the intention of this
    thread.

    Once again thanks for the link.

    Mike

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    After reading Resolution 43, as it was presented in Chicago
    in 2000. It bothers me to see that we call all firefighters
    brothers but yet refer to them as rivals. I'm sorry guys this
    is not K-Mart vs. Wal-Mart. It does not clearly identify what
    is considered a "rival" organization. Where I am from the city
    is made up of career guys. The county areas are all volunteer.
    The county areas are still considered part of the city, but have
    slightly differant rules as to what they can do. Are these
    organiztions "rival", or I am a volunteer in the next city
    are border is divided by a median, am I part of a "rival"
    organization? Do I have the right to get pi#$ed off when the
    paid guys come into my city and take our calls? I do not consider
    them my "rivals".

    Though I think it is wrong to tell someone what they cannot do while
    they are ofwork. I will agree with the IAFF on this. I agree for one
    reason and one reason only. This job is very physically demanding, doing this job all of the time could become very dangerous for that individual and his fellow firefighters on both sides. For safety sake I agree.

    Sure we have our prblems with paid/volunteer and It has been my experiance that most of the paid guys are arrogant a@#holes. However I have met some very arrogant and probably more volunteers. What I am getting at is this isn't a problem
    between vol./paid it is a pride and arrogance argument. Pride is a
    great thing to have, but it can be very devastating.

    Remember what Abe Lincoln said. "A house divided against itself can not stand" we are that divided house. If we are ever going to better
    the fire service we must put aside our differances and work together.

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    This job is very physically demanding, doing this job all of the time could become very dangerous for that individual and his fellow firefighters on both sides. For safety sake I agree.
    This resolution has nothing to do with safety. What is safer....Running a fire Driver-only or with only One other Career firefighter? Or running one with a Full Crew made up of 2 career Firefighters from PG and 2 Volunteers who happen to be off-duty from the DCFD? If it was a safety thing, the Local should be encouraging volunteer participation because the county is not up to par with hiring Career Recruit Classes on a regular basis. Basically what it boils down to is "you made me mad now I am going to dig up an old rule and get you to stop TICKING in my workplace."
    You Waste your time, YOUR LINE IS MINE!

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    I do see your point, but the point I am making is
    a person can only go for so long and if they just got
    off a very long difficult shift and they are tired then
    there is a potential safety issue. Everyone knows there is
    very little room for error in this job, and like it or not
    tired people make mistakes. It is obvious this issue will
    never be resolved. It is unfortunate that in PG you do not
    have enough volunteers to run calls. Thankfully that is not
    a big problem here. But, if you are running calls with a crew
    like that shouldn't you be calling mutual aid at the same time
    of the call. Obviously that would be a call by call basis, but
    it could be a big help.

    This is a tricky situation. Is there really a right answer here.

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    When working in PG County, if it weren't for volunteers, then the paid staff would simply run short. Which, for me, would bring up this dilemma ...

    Blatently hypothethical situation ...
    I leave work, after my shift is over, knowing that I will be leaving an engine with only three men to do the work of five or six. I do not volunteer in my station due to union-by-laws, etc. That night, while I am at home, in bed, asleep, a working fire with people trapped is dispatched in a garden apartment around the corner from the firehouse. My engine company arrives first, confirms entrapment, and goes to S&R with only two FF's - cheauffer is with the engine. The two FF's take a line w/ them, but it must be left at the door in order to perform a rescue. By this time, the next due engine/truck have arrived, but it is too late. Fire has already cut off the FF's exit, the room flashes, two FF LODD'S.

    For the rest of my life, I would think to myself, "what could I have done?" If I were there, would they have died, or would everyone have gone home? If I would have volunteered, would two men not have died?

    Is this situation a little exaggerated? Of course it is. Is it possible? Absolutely.

    So, do you go against the Union or your brother firemen?

    I'm glad I don't have to make the decision.

    Stay Safe

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    OK, another hypothetical.....

    You are a full time (career) firefighter is Nowhereville, USA. You Department is a combination department of career and volunteer firefighters. In your Station you have volunteers who ride as extra during the shirt, augmenting the Towns below standard manpower. This system works fine....there are plenty of firefighters to handle the calls, the work gets done. Lefty is a career Firefighter from the next town over, East Bumfrig. Lefty decides that he needs to give back to his community, so since he lives in Nowhereville, he talks to the Chief and get on as a volunteer. This is fine, since Stinky, Joe and Pete, who are also career Firefighters in East Bumfrig, do the same thing. Well times get tough, money becomes short....Nowheresville is facing budget cuts like never before. Chief One eye has to make a decision....can he lay off guys without affecting service......sure he can, because Lefty, Stinky, Joe and Pete are off almost all the freaking time(great schedule that union got isn't it), so you get laid off, and the service won't suffer because your "brothers" are there to pick up the slack.

    Yeah I know, I am being a wiseass.....but the rule exists for this reason. Now, as to the reason Local 1619 decided to file Resolution 43, I can't answer that. This brief description was to explain the rival organization rule period.

    *****any similarity to person living or dead is purely open *** luck. No offense was intended, so please don't take any******

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    There has never been, and never will be an instance where a career firefighter will ever be replaced by a volunteer in PG County. The career staffing is mainly supplemental daytime staffing to cover the hours when most volunteers are working.

    . It is unfortunate that in PG you do not have enough volunteers to run calls
    Not the case. We have plenty of Volunteers to run calls, if not, the County wouldn't have pulled career staffing from 5 firehouses. And no hfd66truck , these guys were not fired. They were used to beef up staffing at other stations.
    You Waste your time, YOUR LINE IS MINE!

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    CW,

    I obviously don't know the whole story about what
    is going on in PG. We are lucky enough to not have to
    deal with a problem like this here (yet).

    I hope you guys can get something worked out.

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    HFD66 - I understand your scenario, and that is absolutely a concern. However, any fireman who would continue to volunteer so that a town could lay off paid firemen is a freakin' dirtbag. That is a different story and anyone who would do that is dead wrong every single time.

    Stay Safe

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    CW7704, it seems like you are reading from the Charter document that established the paid department in PG in 1970. The 'supplementing the volunteers' might have been true then, but, as one who has lived in PG since 1957, ah kin assure you it shore ain't so anymore. Removing the career staff from those five stations is a response to a lack of career personnel, not because there is an overabundance of volunteers at those stations. The Fire Chief believes (as do most intelligent observers with fire service backgrounds) that there are far too many stations located within the Beltway, but he is powerless to close them. I think this is his very measured response to that problem.

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    There still has never been and I am sure never will be any occurences of volunteers replacing career staff in this county. I am not sure where you live in PG ( I am assuming Bowie since there are alot of Public Safety employees living there) but down this way, we have a moderately consistent number of volunteers there on a nightly basis. Some nights we may only have the 2 shift people there. But I would say 98% of the time, there is at least Minimum staffing of 4 for the Engine/Truck and 2 for the Meat Wagon. And we actually have a GREAT relationship with our Career staff. Considering over half of them are Volunteers in their hometowns as well, they understand our situation. Just don't tell Tomm McEachin, he might start Butt-F--king his own people after he is through with the DCFD. He obviously has no loyalty to his fellow firefighters in another jurisdiction, so why would he stop there? Oh, I forgot, he isn't even a Firefighter..he is a MEDIC!
    You Waste your time, YOUR LINE IS MINE!

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    This is slightly off-topic, but all this talk about the DC area prompted me to go to dcfd.com. Can anyone tell me why there's so many guys with beards?

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    I could be way off here, and someone please correct me if I am wrong, but ...

    I believe there was a lawsuit/protest/something to that effect where some firemen said that not being allowed to grow a beard was an infringement against their freedom of religion. They won, and are now allowed to wear beards.

    Hopefully, that is at least close to correct.

    Stay Safe

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    PA, they had a few Muslim and Arastafarian (sure I mauled that up) Firefighters who sued for the right to wear beards and long dreadlocked hair. I believe they won. I think as long as your facial hair doesn't interfere with your SCBA mask and you can pass a fit test, you should be able to wear some type of moustache or light beard. Although it wouldn't be a bad idea for the Training Academies to give high and tights upon entry.

    PAVolunteer, Nice AVATAR! GO LIONS!
    You Waste your time, YOUR LINE IS MINE!

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    Hmm, had to log out of my "cw7704" name and ended up registering for this new "member zone" feature.....so this is my new handle.

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    Originally posted by TillerMan25
    Hmm, had to log out of my "cw7704" name and ended up registering for this new "member zone" feature.....so this is my new handle.
    New Handle come with a new attitude? LOL j/k
    IACOJ Agitator
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    Adze, Never know. Stranger **** has happened!

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    Default I don't understand it..It makes no sense

    I read some of this 43 Thing on kentland33.com and I have to say I can't understand it. The whole thing sounds like a fight between Volunteer Firefighters and Career Firefighters which makes no sense. Instead of fighting each other maybe the PGFD could concentrate more on fighting the fires and not worrying about one side thinks of another.

    I herd a story from PGFD a few years back where a Career Captain {I think} from PGFD Co. 9 and a Volunteer Lieut. from PGFD Co. 33 got into a fist fight because the The Career Capt. wasn't fully geared up to enter the structure and the Volly Lieut. was....Anyway from the way it was told to me This Career Capt. demanded the hose line from the 33 guy and when he didn't give it up he punched the guy down a flight of stairs into a smoke filled basement.....Somehow it was all dismissed by the Department as a "Boys will be Boys" thing and a suspensions were handed out ......Totaly un-called for if you ask me totaly un-professional especially in front of the general public possibly even the home owner who while these two knuckle heads were fighting his/her house was burning....How true all this is I don't know 100% but I did hear rumor circulating even after the story was told to me.

    What I gather is this IAFF Local for D.C doesn't want or think it's members should be volunteering as firefighters anywhere....This is of course so they can booster themselves as a Union and make strides to abolish volunteers in the Metro DC Area. Yeah like that will happen...I say if a DC Firefighter wants to Volunteer in Prince Georges County than He/She should be allowed to....What relavance does PGFD have to DCFD ???? aside from backing each other up on occassion nothing .....Now maybe I'm all wrong about this and If I am I appoligize but Thats what I gather just from asking around and viewing various websites on this topic

    I thought I'd never say this but....Thank-God I live in NJ where yeah our air is mostly polluted, our polliticians clueless and car insurance rates are through the roof. But at least for the most part our Volunteer Firefighters {About 85% of the State} and the Career Firefighters {the other 15%} do work well and get along with each other.
    Stratford Fire Company # 1
    New Jersey State Firemen's Convention Champions - 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000

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