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Thread: FDNY lawsuit

  1. #1
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    Default FDNY lawsuit

    I would like to know why the vulcan society is going to bring a lawsuit against the FDNY. I filed on june 28th cause I wanted the job, the application period was extended until oct. 31st because they wanted more applicants and that is totally understandable. BUT why is the vulcan society getting upset? If minorites wanted the job that bad they would apply for it like the rest of us did? Whats next 5pts for being a minority? Hope nobody was offended by this post im not directing this to anyone, just want to hear other peoples feelings


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    Why do we actually have to go out and recruit minorities anyway?
    I mean if they want the job they will come to it, just like the
    20,000 or so white people. If they are passed up because of their
    race that is wrong, but I don't think we need to beg them to come
    apply. Why is it the FDNY's fault if a certain number of minorities
    didn't apply. Personally I could care less what color you are, as long
    as you know as much or more than me.

    I hope know one takes this to be a racial thing, because it isn't
    meant to be.

  3. #3
    Member pgvfd1's Avatar
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    Who/what is the vulcan society?

    Why do we actually have to go out and recruit minorities anyway?
    Because it's the politically correct thing to do these day's.
    It's probably cheaper to spend money that could be used for equipment and staffing on recruiting minorities instead of defending yourself in court why the racial makeup of your department does not conform to the locality in which it is in.

    Even if you are in an all white community some moron sitting behind a desk somewhere, who wouldnít do this job for all the tea in China, and who thinks itís their mission in life to make sure all minorities are given preferential treatment will pitch a bitch if you donít have enough minorities in your organization. It doesn't matter that they don't take the initiative to apply on their own. This is nothing new itís been going on for a long time!

    Itís hard enough competing on knowledge, skills and ability, but now you have to compete on race and sex. And being a white, male, makes the playing field a little uneven!

    Although I'm sure someone will take this as racial statements, no racial overtones are intended in this post, just facts based on personal experience!

    Peace and stay safe!
    "When I was a child I spoke as a child, understood as a child, thought as a child, but when I became a man I put away childish things."

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    I have touched on this subject many times. Affirmative action and racial preference are WRONG!!! I don't car if you are black, white, asian, hispanic, woman, martian, purple with green polka dots, or any combination thereof, if you apply willingly, and take the test and recieve a score within the TOP percentile, then you deserve the job no questions asked. To give jobs to those who didn't earn them or don't deserve them simply because of the color of one's skin or gender should be criminal. We are all afforded the opportunity to get what we want in this country. If we work hard at it, educate ourselves instead of waiting for the handout then we ALL would be better off. Currently the Boston FD is practcing this under a Fedral Court decree. They are always hiring minorities near the bottom of the list because the bleeding heart liberal judges want to correct a wrong commited over 135 yrs. ago. EVERYONE in this country has access to education, what one does with it is their business. But when people screw it up and then expect EASY STREET afterward they should be told to take a hike. FDNY has standards and commitment to hiring only the BEST. If you don't get a 95 on the wrtten YOU DON'T PASS. If you don't pass the agility regardless of race or gender YOU DON'T PASS. If you don't have 30 college credits, YOU DON'T GET THE JOB. These men should be proud to accomplish what they have. FDNY if I recall correctly had a BLACK commissioner from 78 to 80 who ironically had moved up the ranks to ACOD. The Vulcan Society should realize that the reason the FDNY is the dept. it is, is that they have always hired THE BEST. You cannot put a gun to someone's head and force them to apply for a job they may not want or may not even be qualified for. If this frivolous lawsuit is won by the Vulcan Society, it spells doom for every hardworking individual out there.
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    Default the vulcan society

    PGVFD1...

    I would love to be able to tell you that the Vulcan Society is an offshoot of the Star Trek Fan Club to appreciate Spock, Tuvok, and T'Pol...butit's not.

    The Vulcan Society is an organization of firefighters of color, specifically, African American.

    Recuiting minorities is a waste of taxpayer's money. Enterance exam dates are posted, if anyone (white, black, green, purple, male, female, gay, straight, bi, Protestant, Catholic, Buddhist, Muslim, Jewish, agnostic, atheist, whatever) is interested, they will apply.

    The lack of response from the "minority community" should signify their interest in getting on the "da job"!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Is there a white firefighter organization? Irish? German? European? Lefthanded? Blonde? Tall? Short?
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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    SPFD;

    Yes!

    Dave

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    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    In New York City you sign-up to take the FD test. You take the test and Pass. Then if you grade is good to be in the top 5000 or so you will be put on a list. When your list number comes up you get hired off that list.
    Nobody begged me to take the test. Nobody gave me money to take the test. Nobody handed me my job.
    EARN IT AND IT WILL BE YOURS.
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    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    -As copied from Firehouse.com front page news:

    By William Murphy. STAFF WRITER

    "After a major recruiting push, about 20,440 people have applied to take the next firefighter exam, and about one in four is a minority, officials said Friday.

    The preliminary percentage of applicants who are minorities - about 24 percent - is slightly lower than when the last exam was given in 1998. Then, with about the same number of applicants, the pool was 26 percent minority.

    The head of a fraternal group of black firefighters said the outcome was disappointing and that a federal lawsuit alleging hiring discrimination would be filed against the Fire Department later this month."

    Now I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but how can an organization sue for hiring discrimination when no one has been hired yet? Worse, who can you sue if a particular segment of the population didn't even apply? This even after a deadline extension...
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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    They are going to sue because thats the only way that they can get their way. It happens all the time and I for one am getting alittle tired of it..... Pass the written, Pass the physical, Get a NYC residence and you'll be hired bottom line. Don't try and take the cheap way out like crying your way on the job.

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    Obviously this job relies on trust.

    People need to look at the fact, that
    it is going to be next to impossible to
    trust the person next to you knowing they
    sued their way onto the dept.

    If you want the job bring your butt out
    excercise, study, earn it, if you aren't
    willing to do that you have no buisness riding
    with any fire dept. in the world.

  12. #12
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    Angry

    Maybe someone should send them a dictionary so they can look up the meaning of "have applied".

    It doesn't make sense that a Fire Department can be sued because people DIDN'T APPLY. Are they supposed to FORCE citizens to apply to take the test????
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    Apparently...., yes.
    Chris Minick, P.E., Firefighter II
    Structures Specialist, MD-TF 1

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    Forum Member firemangeorge's Avatar
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    SPFDRum - Yes

    GAFA -German American Firefighters Association
    http://www.geocities.com/igafa/

    Not a politacl organization, though.

    fg
    See You At The Big One

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    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    The problem here is that post-Civil Rights, governments came under fire to assure there was parity in hiring. Nationally, we are 11% African-American, I think. So it stands to reason that if a particular municipality is consistent with that figure, they should hope for around 11% of their FF's, cops, etc. to be African-American.

    But there is statistical variation in any sampling. If you have 11% minorities in City A, and the CAFD hires 100 new recruits a year, it's highly unlikely that each class will have exactly 11 minority members. Some years 8, some years 12, some years 15. Rarely 11. Flip a coin 100 times. Count your heads and tails, then do 100 more. Repeat until your thumb hurts. I bet you could go all night and never get 50 heads and 50 tails. You'll have 43 and 57, maybe even 31 and 69. I bet never 50-50.

    But politicians like quick fixes, so quotas look good. They can "fix" a problem in two years that really would require seven or eight to be fixed right.

    Quick fix: Mandate parity.
    Effective fix: Get kids involved, go into schools to make FF's and cops role models. When they get older some may apply.

    But that takes ten or twelve years, a.k.a. the span of many elected terms. No time to screw around doing it right; let's do it quick!

    Trouble is, people are satisfied if they see 12-13 recruits hitting CAFD each year, and they're angry if they see 8-9, in both cases because they think those trends are permanent. They're not. It will continue to vary every year.

    This does not cheapen the presence of those 8 or 15 or however many; don't get me wrong. They belong. But they had something in them that made them want to be firefighters, and if we want groups like Vulcan to be happy, we need to find out what that "spark" is and try to instill it in young kids. Then the issue should take care of itself.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
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    Well said.
    Chris Minick, P.E., Firefighter II
    Structures Specialist, MD-TF 1

    These statements are mine and mine alone
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    Let's throw another wrench into things.


    Should the Vulcan Society not accept some responsibility for minorities not applying? Should they not be out promoting themselves as appropriate role models for teens and young adults? Should they not be out saying "Look at us........we are successful........we've worked hard to get where we are........we have beat the stereotypes"

    Seems to me it's a two way street here. The City of New York can no easier force applicants than the Vulcan Society can. So why is it the cities fault? Just what more do they expect them to do in order to get more to apply?

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    Similar times yet again, unfortunately

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    This political correctness and quota hiring is plain nonsense. If society wants every job to reflect the social make up of society, start at the baseline. Every govt job including fire should have approximately 50% women. Is it realistic to expect? No, simply because there are not that many women who are interested in becoming firefighters. I would be very surprised if any dept has more than 10% female members. I will agree with recruiting in the minority community, but for Gods sake, leave the standards where they are so you do get the best of the best. Otherwise, the job will suffer, quality of service will drop, and in the end, the very people pushing this will feel the effects.

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    Here is a great solution to the problem.

    Step 1 - figure out how many applicants of each 'ority' is needed to be a reflection of society. IE, how many Hispanic, African American, Irish etc.

    Step 2 - Goto to the un-employment rolls and pick off enough of each group to fill it out to meet step 1.

    There you go, an equal number for each group.

    While we are at it, I am very concerned about sports. We need to force a more relective view of society on coaches and players. To many white coaches and to many black players.

    Oh wait - people do care if the non-preffered group ends up under-represented

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