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Thread: TIC's

  1. #1
    MembersZone Subscriber
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    Aug 2002
    No. Ferrisburg, Vt.

    Default TIC's

    We just recieved 2 new MSA 4000's, the day of the training we had a structure fire. I had the camera. It didn't work the way I expected. Can you see furniture, doorways, and walls with these things. They say that it quickens a search of a room, I didn't see that. We were also wondering if I had pointed the camera at the windows, would that give me an idea if there was fire in that room. I obviously need some more training to use the camera to its best advantage, and that has been arranged on a company level. Any advice would be helpful.

  2. #2
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001


    I just spent 4 weeks in New York at first line school and received an 8 hour class in TICs ....these thing can be a real good tool to pull out of the tool box...but they can be dangerous if you are not properly trained in thier use. These cameras all basically do the same thing but there can be suttle differences in there operation. The cameras should not be placed in service until you have a little more training than the mgf. pamphlet...Contact the members of FDNY Rescue 3 they are the guys that trained us ...they run some type of training company.
    IACOJ Membership 2002

    Mike IAFF

    The beatings will continue until the morale improves

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 1999


    here is the down and dirty as I understand it...I am sure that someone can give a more "technically" proficient answer.

    We were also wondering if I had pointed the camera at the windows, would that give me an idea if there was fire in that room.
    Yes, but you wouldn't necessarily "see" flames. You would see that the window would appear hotter than other windows. TIC do not see, rather they show infared heat (as technical as I'll get). They also cannot see thru things, rather they detect the difference in surface temperature. So yes you could use it to detect a fire in a room by looking at the window. In fact we were taught about using the camera for exterior size up by that very method.

    Can you see furniture, doorways, and walls with these things. They say that it quickens a search of a room, I didn't see that
    Yes you can, as long as there is a diiference in temperature. However you still have to rely on the methods by which you were trained to search by. Whats happens if the cameras fails? If you weren't on a wall, or using a rope, you would be **** outta luck.

    They are a great tool, in combination with the methods you currently use.


  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber Halligan84's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Blackwood NJ, USA


    You can point at the outside walls of a house to figure out what area the fire is in. From the street you will see more a heat build up around the fire room and this is a good tactic to determine whether the fire has entered the truss space as well while preparing to enter.

    While inside, Thermal imaging cameras, when directed at glass, mirrors or even smooth, shiny painted surfaces will give you a direct reflection back. If the fire was behind you and you looked at a mirror or window you'd see yourself, crew and the fire.

  5. #5
    Protective Economist Jonathan Bastian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002



    You should be able to see furniture in the house, and negotiate the hallways and rooms better/faster. The primary catch is that there is a temperature difference, even slight, among the items and the walls. The shapes and materials of the surfaces will also have subtle, but noticable effects.

    Glass is not transparent to infrared. Therefore, if you look at a window with the TI, you can get one of three things: (1) a reflection of the environment around it; (2) a rough impression of whether the window is hot or not (note, this is not the same as saying their is fire...what if the window was in the sun all day?); or (3) a combination of the two.

    As Halligan84 notes, IR will reflect off most shiny surfaces. Glass and mirrors qualify, as do dry-erase boards, unpainted metal, polished/waxed metal (try your engine or truck), etc.

    As Ltmdepas notes, there is a training company called SAFE-IR (www.safe-ir.com). You can also self-educate at www.thermalimager.com. Let me know if I can be of further assistance.

  6. #6
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Jun 2001
    Bridgton,Me USA


    Not sure of where in VT.you are,but Maine Fire Training has a real good TIC program 16 hrs that will give you a good grasp of TI operation.Contact them via the website as I'm not sure just how the reprocity works but I think you could probably get some people into the class.T.C.

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