1. #1
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default One for the good guys ... thank you Pennsylvania!

    The Pennsylvania voters overwhelmingly voted in favor of a referendum to have the state borrow $100 Million in order to fund the state's fire companies. Hopefully, the lawmakers will go through with it.

    Ballot Questions
    Question: Volunteer Firefighter Funding
    Candidate Votes Percent
    Yes 1,807,046 72%
    No 691,580 28%
    Precincts Reporting - 9340 out of 9415 - 99%

    Stay Safe
    Last edited by PAVolunteer; 11-06-2002 at 11:04 AM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Lets just hope this doesn't get mired down in politics, it will help unbelievably!

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    Originally posted by quint1driver
    Lets just hope this doesn't get mired down in politics
    You got that right!!! Maybe it'll help you get rid of that quint and buy a real truck!!!

    Just kiddin' ...

    Stay Safe

  4. #4
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    181

    Default

    The local papers were throwing around a figure around $40k per company, based on how many volunteer fire depts there are in the state. I would guess they would be evenly distributed, like they did 2-3 years ago. If its anything in the $10k range, I can't even begin to imagine the impact that will have for us.
    Get rid of a quint? And become plain old hose hounds? NEVER!!!

  5. #5
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    16

    Default

    From what I saw all counties..with the exception of Cameron County voted for it. Anyone from Cameron County on here. Congrats to the voters..much needed money.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    90Truck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Newtown, PA
    Posts
    259

    Talking yeah baby!!

    maybe we can get s/i leather helmets now?? may much good come from this. and i agree, hopefully the politicians won't muck this one up!!
    Matt G. Warminster Fire Dept. Station 90
    IAFF Local F-106

  7. #7
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Allegheny Co., Pa.
    Posts
    13

    Unhappy

    I don't want to sound discouraging but after 23 yrs. in the fire service in Pa. I find it hard to believe till I see it. I have seen 2 dept.s go out of business in our area in the last few years and there was no public outcry or anything. Maybe I am just getting cranky or something, but I really wonder if people care as long as it is not there home on fire.

    I really hope they go threw with it, we could really use the money but again I can't get excited till I see it.


    Stay safe
    Chief Of Station 21
    Bell Acres, Pa.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    southeast pa
    Posts
    41

    Default

    As we all hold our breath on this one we must remember that this is and was a non-binding referendum which means it is more like an opinion poll which the politicians are not obliged to abide by. After almost 18 years in the volunteer fire service I have to say that I will believe it when I see it. I am trying to hope for the best for all of us but I will not hold my breath because it tends to make you pass out if done for too long.

  9. #9
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    181

    Default

    But look at the numbers, 72% of voters are in favor of it. Granted it may take some time, but do you want to be the representitive that isn't in favor of what 72% of the voters are? I wouldn't be specing the new piece yet, but anything that comes out of this is 100% more than what we got last year. Even if its only 18K......

  10. #10
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Conshohocken, PA
    Posts
    391

    Default Don't count your chickens until they hatch

    Like many on here, I am encouraged by the support of the taxpayers in this Commonwealth, but leary of those who will decide to pass the bond issue to support this referendum. While I am not sure of all that is needed, I suspect that anything will have to go before the new Govn-elect Rendell. He has spoken at length about what he feels is important, prior to the election. Not once did I hear that he felt that emergency services are in need of funds/support. It maybe that he just wasn't asked that question.

    A recent article in the Philadelphia Inquirer, Rendell spoke of his priorities including the large deficit now facing the state. If this is any indication we may be in for a long wait for any of that money. Time will tell.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    Hope for the best ... prepare for the worst.

    At least we know the public is behind us.

    Stay Safe

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    dragonfyre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Birdsboro, PA
    Posts
    967

    Default

    Andy's right in that Rendell will have other priorities to deal with first and don't forget he's not from an area served by volunteers.

    We worked with our state senator and even posed for pictures he used for a flyer he passed out all over Berks County. He told us up front that even if it passed it would still be a long haul to get it funded and up and running.

    What really hurts is that 28% of the voters turned it down. If that was all from the big cities served by paids I could see it, but the West Chester Daily Local reported that 25% voted no in Chester County.

    Good thing we don't pick out 28% of our calls to not respond to.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
    Volunteers are never "off duty".
    http://www.bufd7.org

  13. #13
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Excellent post Oushore. Right on the money.

  14. #14
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    141

    Default

    I was one that did vote for the money, I do feel for the most part if we get any money at all most of the money will be wasted. The fire service in Pa NEEDS a major overhaul. Just how many of the 2900 departments are really needed. Just take my town for example we have 15 engines within a mile and a half from 8 diffrent fire departments, just a bit of overkill I would say. That is 8 insurance bills, 8 air systems, with their yearly bills, I could go on and on but I'll just leave it at this.

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    I tried attaching this Word file, but it didn't work - this is a study done by the Pennsylvania Fire and Emergency Services Institute. It estimates the worth of the services provided by PA VFCo's at about $6 Billion. If anyone would like me to email the file to them, send me a PM.

    Funding for Pennsylvania Emergency Services ...
    ... Beyond 2001

    Pennsylvania Fire and Emergency Services Institute
    223 State Street
    Harrisburg, PA 17101

    Phone: 717-236-5995
    Fax: 717-236-5996
    Email: Fireservpa@aol.com
    Website: www.pfsi.org

    BACKGROUND
    In 1994, the Pennsylvania Fire and Emergency Services Institute produced a funding study detailing how much money Pennsylvania’s taxpayers are saved by volunteer fire and emergency services already at work in their communities. This 2001 report provides an update of that 1994 study.
    Volunteer firefighters and emergency service workers already contribute a great deal of personal time and energy responding to calls, undergoing rigorous training, raising funds for operations and maintaining equipment at their stations.
    Firefighters today respond to not only fire calls but also to automobile accidents, hazardous-materials incidents, threats of terrorism and emergency medical calls -- all requiring intensive training and specific response equipment. Such activity demands a substantial time commitment from volunteer schedules already crowded with work and family responsibilities, particularly in today's more common two-income households.
    Of prime concern lately, however, has been a steep and steady decline in the numbers of volunteers attracted to these vital services in Pennsylvania. Although the number of fire companies has remained fairly stable over the past ten years, the same cannot be said of the number of volunteers. In fact, studies done by the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development put the total number of currently active firefighters at about 70,000, down dramatically from about 75,000 in 1995, a 6 percent decline in just six years. (Because of the fluid nature of the volunteer services, figures used within this project obviously are approximate.)
    As the number of volunteer firefighters continues to decline, logic dictates that raising money to operate fire companies consequently will become more difficult, perhaps requiring increased funding from municipalities, a move likely to result in higher municipal taxes.
    This study was conducted to provide baseline information on what Pennsylvania citizens and their elected officials could face if the number of fire-protection and emergency-service volunteers continues its current downward trend. Although these estimates were compiled with a bias to be as conservative as possible, they nevertheless offer an alarming picture of the potential problem and its ultimate costs.
    Several Pennsylvania-based resources, including the Office of the State Fire Commissioner and the Department of Community and Economic Development (DCED), provided the statistics upon which many of our assumptions have been made. We appreciate their assistance.

    ASSUMPTIONS
    Serving the state's 67 counties are 2,462 fire companies, 2,366 (or about 96 percent) of which are all volunteer. The balance includes 73 "combination" companies (served by volunteers and career firefighters) and 23 fully paid municipal departments. The Department of Community and Economic Development estimates that among volunteer companies now in operation, only about 10 percent are financially sound.
    According to “Supporting Volunteer Fire Services in Pennsylvania” – a report on survey results of House Resolution 67, Governor’s Center for Local Government Services (July 1999), conducted by the Department of Community and Economic Development, ...
    · the average annual cost (including benefits) of one paid firefighter is about $55,000.
    · municipal budget totals (grouped into three categories) also captured the average allocations municipalities make to their fire companies.
    municipal budget fire company allocation
    Ø less than $1 million $15,950
    Ø $1 million to $2 million $22,650
    Ø more than $2 million $91,200
    NOTES
    Municipal budget totals reflect expenses for entire municipalities, not just fire services.
    Among all three budget categories, the statewide average for municipal allocation to a fire company was $43,266.
    In most municipalities, multiple volunteer fire companies share a single municipal allocation.
    A 1999 Statewide Fire Apparatus Survey conducted by the Pennsylvania Fire and Emergency Services Institute further showed that ...
    · the average fire company maintains about four emergency-service vehicles.
    · most fire companies (about 63 percent) reported that emergency responses or company functions typically drew between 11 and 20 active members.
    · independent operating budgets of reporting fire companies were almost evenly divided into four groups:
    Ø 23% with budgets of less than $25,000.
    Ø 23% with budgets of between $25,000 and $50,000.
    Ø more than 27% with budgets of between $50,000 and $100,000.
    Ø about 26% with budgets of more than $100,000.
    The study by the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development also showed that each fire company serves ...
    · an area of approximately 18.4 square miles
    · a total average population of about 3,984
    Based upon a standard developed by the Delaware Auditor General’s Office, one fire company typically can serve about 10,000 citizens. Using that basis, Pennsylvania would need more than the 1,000 fire companies to provide coverage across all 67 counties, based upon current population figures alone. Obviously, numerous economic, political, geographic and historical factors have determined the locations and numbers of volunteer fire companies serving today.
    This report uses that "one-company-per-10,000-citizens" rule of thumb to estimate total costs. Further, we assumed that each active fire company could operate efficiently with a complement of 20 firefighters.
    Our resulting calculations were made based on costs to establish1,500 fire companies and 2,000 fire companies to illustrate the comparative savings provided by volunteers in most Pennsylvania communities.

    FIREFIGHTER BENEFITS AND SALARY COSTS
    From “Supporting Volunteer Fire Services in Pennsylvania” – a report on survey results of House Resolution 67, Governor’s Center for Local Government Services (July 1999), we know that the average career firefighter costs a municipality about $55,000 annually, including benefits.
    That means that the individual staff cost of ... $ 55,000
    to compensate every firefighter in a company ... X 20
    would total up to ... $1.1 million
    Expanding those figures then, would mean that paying staff for ...
    1,500 fire companies would require
    statewide compensation costs of
    $1.65 billion
    and 2,000 fire companies would require
    statewide compensation costs of
    $2.2 billion

    FIRE COMPANY OPERATING COSTS
    Because operating budgets for reporting fire companies were so diverse, we divided them into four categories:
    Ø less than $25,000
    Ø between $25,000 and $50,000
    Ø between $50,000 and $100,000
    Ø more than $100,000
    That being the case, then ...
    if all 1,500 fire companies maintained
    annual operating budgets of then statewide operating costs would be
    $ 25,000 $ 37.50 million
    $ 37,500 $ 56.25 million
    $ 75,000 $112.50 million
    $100,000 $150.00 million
    and if all 2,000 fire companies maintained
    annual operating budgets of then statewide operating costs would be
    $ 25,000 $ 50.00 million
    $ 37,500 $ 75.00 million
    $ 75,000 $150.00 million
    $100,000 $200.00 million
    Using an average of all four operating-budget categories, then ...
    1,500 fire companies would require
    statewide operating costs of
    $ 89.06 million
    and 2,000 fire companies would require
    statewide operating costs of
    $118.75 million

    PERSONAL PROTECTIVE CLOTHING COSTS
    Because firefighters are exposed to extreme temperatures and a variety of other hazards with each call, the protective clothing they wear (both in stations and on fire grounds) must protect them well. Technology has provided the means by which such personnel may be protected, but such equipment generally comes at a high cost.

    According to sources at Moul Enterprises, Inc., protecting the typical firefighter today requires an investment of ...
    air pack $ 3,000
    protective coat $ 895
    protective pants $ 678
    helmet $ 400
    pager $ 400
    boots $ 250
    gloves $ 40
    Nomex hood $ 25
    Total $ 5,688

    That means that the individual cost of ... $ 5,688
    to protect every firefighter in one company ... X 20
    would accumulate to a total of ... $113,760
    Expanding those figures then, would mean that ...
    1,500 fire companies would require
    statewide personal protection costs of
    $170.64 million
    and 2,000 fire companies would require
    statewide personal protection costs of
    $227.52 million

    APPARATUS AND EQUIPMENT COSTS
    Firefighters use apparatus and equipment that accounts for the most costly capital expenditures made by fire companies. The National Fire Protection Association recommends specific portable equipment to be carried on each particular piece of apparatus. Relevant standards currently in use are ...
    Ø NFPA 1901 -- standard on initial fire, rescue and utility apparatus
    Ø NFPA 1903 -- standard on equipment carried on mobile water-supply apparatus and
    Ø NFPA 1904 -- standard on equipment carried on aerial fire apparatus.
    Using those NFPA standards for portable equipment, we added figures obtained from Moul Enterprises, Inc., as resource for approximate costs.
    The following table details a conservative estimate of retail purchase price for each of the following types of apparatus and the minimum portable equipment based on NFPA standards.
    apparatus apparatuscost cost of NFPAstandard equipment Total
    engine $300,000 $18,000 $318,000
    aerial truck $650,000 $35,000 $685,000
    tanker $225,000 $ 7,000 $232,000
    rescue truck $425,000 $18,000 $443,000
    utility vehicle $ 45,000 $18,000 $ 63,000
    brush truck $ 75,000 $ 75,000
    ambulance $115,000 $115,000

    estimated costs to provide statewide equipped apparatus
    equipped apparatus for 1,500 fire companies for 2,000 fire companies
    engines $ 477.0 million $ 636.0 million
    aerial trucks $1,027.5 billion $1,370.0 billion
    tanker trucks $ 348.0 million $ 464.0 million
    rescue trucks $ 664.5 million $ 886.0 million
    utility vehicles $ 94.5 million $ 126.0 million
    brush trucks $ 112.5 million $ 150.0 million
    ambulances $ 172.5 million $ 230.0 million
    NOTE: These estimates DO NOT include ongoing maintenance costs for apparatus, but reflect ONLY the estimated retail purchase values of each emergency-service vehicle.

    summary of estimated costs to maintain statewide fire services
    operating expenses
    cost item for 1,500 fire companies for 2,000 fire companies
    personnel $1,650.000 billion $2,200.000 billion
    operations $ 89.063 million $ 118.750 million
    operating expense to maintain career companies $1,739.063 million $2,318.750 million

    capital equipment expenses
    protective clothing $ 170.640 million $ 227.520 million
    equipped engines $ 477.000 million $ 636.000 million
    equipped aerial trucks $1,027.500 billion $1,370.000 billion
    equipped tanker trucks $ 348.000 million $ 464.000 million
    equipped rescue trucks $ 664.500 million $ 886.000 million
    equipped utility vehicles $ 94.500 million $ 126.000 million
    capital expenses to create career companies $2,782.140 million $3,709.520 million

    TOTAL fire service value $4,521.203 billion $6,028.270 billion

    less personnel expense $1,650.000 billion $2,200.000 billion
    less municipal contributions $ 21.497 million $ 28.662 million

    value of service now provided by volunteers through independent fundraising $2,849.706 billion $3,799.608 billion

    CONCLUSIONS
    This Pennsylvania Fire & Emergency Services Institute study on cost-savings realized by Pennsylvania taxpayers because of volunteer services paints an alarming picture of the potential – and realistic -- costs to fully fund career fire departments across the Commonwealth.
    Upon reviewing the previous Cost Summary table, the amazing contribution made by Pennsylvania volunteers becomes quite clear. Emergency-services volunteers in this state contribute time and money approaching a value of approximately $6 billion to protect our hometowns.
    Of their own volition, volunteers like these have raised nearly $3.8 billion to fund training, emergency-response operations, equipment and apparatus to provide service at a level that most Pennsylvanians take for granted.
    Figure 1 below illustrates that the greatest expenses for volunteer fire companies are attributed apparatus and protective clothing costs. (Personnel expenses generally affect only career companies.) With costs of such goods always on the rise, meeting expenses remains a major challenge for fire companies that lack significant funding from their own municipalities. Such funding shortfalls require volunteers to devote even more personal time to raising funds necessary to maintain their operations.

    Figure 1



    Figure 2 below compares results of the 1994 Fire Institute study to those developed in 2001, revealing that the "real cost" to provide emergency services in Pennsylvania has increased markedly in the past six years.
    The total value provided by Pennsylvania emergency services rose from $4.5 billion in 1994 to about $6 billion, an appreciation of nearly 33 percent. Such a jump illustrates that costs of equipment, apparatus, protective clothing and personnel all have risen steadily.
    The value of service now provided by volunteers through their own independent fundraising grew even more dramatically, more than doubling in just six years from $1.83 billion in 1994 to $3.8 billion in 2001. Such a significant increase we believe reveals that Pennsylvania volunteers, though fewer in number, are working harder than ever to compensate for the lack of any substantial funding by their own municipal governments.

    Figure 2



    For more than 200 years, Pennsylvania's emergency-service volunteers generally have done a remarkable job in protecting our citizens from the ravages of fire and other emergencies ... even without significant financial support of their local municipal officials -- and despite municipal charters that designate local officials as responsible for providing community fire protection.
    The ever-increasing demands on the time of volunteers -- responding to protect their communities, training to maintain proficiency – further is strained when they also must devote even more time to raising funds to do the very jobs they already perform at no cost to the community.
    We believe that "Funding for Pennsylvania Emergency Services ... Beyond 2001" should -- and must -- become a principal responsibility of local municipal governments, particularly in light of the evident savings currently being enjoyed because of volunteer services.
    Now and in the future, local governments must thoroughly apply their planning and budgeting processes to help local fire companies maintain and improve their administrative and operational effectiveness ... both today and beyond 2001.

    This report, "Funding for Pennsylvania Emergency Services ... Beyond 2001," was created by the Pennsylvania Fire and Emergency Services Institute.

    Copy and distribution of this document may be made without charge to any entity so requesting it, so long as the sources of information remain an integral part of the report and so long as its authorship is attributed to the Pennsylvania Fire and Emergency Services Institute.

    Pennsylvania Fire and Emergency Services Institute
    223 State Street
    Harrisburg, PA 17101

    Phone: 717-236-5995
    Fax: 717-236-5996
    Email: Fireservpa@aol.com
    Website: www.pfsi.org

  16. #16
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    68

    Default

    Fella's before we get excited or plan our next purchase a little reality check is in order. Did you ever wonder why the Referendum was on the ballot? Simple. The legislature did not have the guts to vote for funding leglislation on their own. They passed on their responsibilty. The Resolution was non binding. It does not mean a thing. Remember the proposal was to increase the debt cieling for the commonwealth to fund the fire departments. It was a one time shot. If you distribute 100 million to the commonwealth's 2400 fire departments, that means we each get roughly 40,000 dollars. The funds for that distribution would come from the Commonwealth selling bonds. It would be a one time shot. When 2004 comes around they would not be doing it again.

    The long term solution would be a permanent grant program from the state where each year as part of the budget, they distributed 50 million plus. But that is not going to happen any time soon. The fire service simply is not a big enough lobby to influence our legislators that much.

    The Budget proposals for fiscal 2003 are projecting a deficit. No new spending is likely, and the debt issuance to raise funds was the only game in town to stop the fire service from hammering the public officials before the election.

    The true test will be to wait and see what the legislators do now that they have been elected. Probably more of the same.

    Time will tell.

    Lastly, before anyone gets too excited about our new governor elect, consider his campaign proposals to legalize gambling and tax it. How many of your fire stations raise funds through some game of chance or ticket sales? It might be interesting to see what projections if any are made how that will impact our fundraising. Dollars to dounughts, the tax money goes east no matter what was said.

    Wait and see

    Just one mans opinion

  17. #17
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    md
    Posts
    5

    Default

    I agree wtih CHOAD33, the fire service in PA needs overhauling. In the southeastern part of the state there are too many fire companies with too much apparatus. When every town has to have the same or more types of fire apparatus as the neiboring fire companies, why should the taxpayer foot the bill. Maybe time to consolidate companies and have the fire companies learn financial responsibility.

  18. #18
    Junior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    PA USA
    Posts
    6

    Default Of PA and the Referendum

    Interesting that somebody finally noted that there are too many fire companies in PA. The PA fire service is not something we should be proud of, we are a solid 90-110 years behind the rest of the country and everyone but us knows it. Go to a national convention and tell someone you are a fire chief in PA, you'll usually get a chuckle and an "oh, a PA fire chief". PA is the laughing stock of this countries fire service. Nowhere else in the country do fire departments COMPETE for calls by buying special apparatus. Nowhere else in the country will you find 3 fire departments in the same town when one would do. Has anybody else noticed that not a month passes without an article on the FH website about a PA firefighter committing arson? PA has a problem, how ironic that the 2nd state in the union is last in fire protection. The following isn't my opnion, this is fact: TWO insurance companies are leaving PA after this year because of excessive losses. They are tired of PA firefighters saving basements!!!!
    The referendum is not the answer but I never complain without offering a solution so here it is: Each fire department should have the right to tax it's residents in order to survive, a concept called fire protection districts. Unless you approach your state legislators and tell them this is what needs to be done, volunteers will be relegated to calling bingo and other fundraisers till the end of time. The FPD works in many other states, no reason it won't here. The referendum, if it provides money, is only a quick fix to a massive problem. Look far into the future, not just to next week, not just to your next truck, taxation is the only answer. The worst part about the referendum is that the 100 million will cost the state at least another 100 million in interest. Not a good deal when you consider how fast 40G can be spent in a fire department. Kind of like getting a 30 year loan for a new car. Tax money is there, available and only costs a dollar for a dollar.
    One last thing, the report from PFSI that says PA volunteers save 6 billion dollars, please take the time to read that thoroughly, as it includes in that number the cost of replacing ALL fire apparatus as if it's done every year. Anyone can make numbers say what they want, it's your responsibility to read and find the truth. It's also interesting that a unit of time isn't given in the report, it never says 6 billion per year, or per 5 years or per decade. Lots of people ASSUME per year, but that isn't what it says. Have you noticed all the scuttlebutt about Great Britian? GB pays a national fire service, wonder why? Could it be to minimize losses and save insurance companies piles of money? Maybe more than it costs to fund that fire service! Lots of food for thought and l'm sure lots of you hate me now, but that's perfectly ok. Shoot the messenger.

  19. #19
    Temporarily/No Longer Active
    Oushore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    EARTH
    Posts
    86

    Default

    Only problem with the fire service in Pennsylvania is that there are too many people with negative attitudes like you Alto.......

  20. #20
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Jeez, alto, if you're so unhappy with pa firefighting, why don't you follow the insurance companies out of state? And in case you didn't know, doctors are leaving the state at a record pace, citing exorborant malpractice insurance rates. I guess that makes Pa's medical skills the laughing stock of the country?
    But like you said, numbers can say anything you want them to say.

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    141

    Default

    I'ts time I jump back into this. The vote was to "improve the delivery of vol fire service" Who says that the state, (if any money comes about) will give any of it to any fire department. It could be given to the community colleges for free training classes. It could be used to hire more full time staff at the SFA. Who says it will be free, from what I hear there will be riders attached to the funding (If it comes about). You want some cash send in the list of who in the department is FF1 don't have 30% sorry your out of luck. Your fire chief does not have any training sorry. You want some rescue equipment, what is the DOH certification number for your rescue, do not have one sorry no cash for you. All the stuff about don't like then leave, is the attitude that got us in this whole mess to begin with. I have lived here almost my whole life and I'm not about to leave, I would like for things to be better. The three years that I was in Kentucky really ****ed me off. You need 300 some hours of training to get on a fire truck The state has on record every hour of training that every firefighter takes even inhouse stuff. To conduct training at your station the person is a department level instructor (state class you take). The bootlegging pot growing two tooth rednecks down there are light years ahead of this state.

  22. #22
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,702

    Default

    The bootlegging pot growing two tooth rednecks down there
    Ouch!
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    Wow ... with the Pennsylvania Fire Service apparently being so bad, it's a wonder the entire state hasn't burned down yet!

    Stay Safe

  24. #24
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    181

    Default

    Choad, I can't find anything in your post to dissagree with. Personally, I feel requirements in Pennsylvania are too lenient. Thats why my dept does push the firefighter 1 or higher requirement, thats why we require officer 1 for the chief officers. Believe me, it worries me to see some of the pumpkin pumpers that show up wearing turnouts at a mutual aid scene. These are the guys that may have to pull me out? Lots of confidence there.
    I agree, if you are not up to standards, no money for you. More for the departments that do meet requirements! The only thing that burned me up is the sweeping generalizations that firefighters anywhere (not just Pa) are untrained, uneducated, or just ignorant. Im sure they are here, just like they are anywhere, but I would be happy to put some Pennsylvania departments up against some "Professional" departments anyday.

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Originally posted by quint1driver

    The only thing that burned me up is the sweeping generalizations that firefighters anywhere (not just Pa) are untrained, uneducated, or just ignorant. Im sure they are here, just like they are anywhere, but I would be happy to put some Pennsylvania departments up against some "Professional" departments anyday. [/B]

    The point I was trying to get across was that many people look down on the people that live the southern states. The fact is that the Bumpkin Knobb Vol Fire Department having no money, old equipment is required to have the people in their fire department up to a standard. It is funny how we can look down on them and make fun of them but when there is a fire they will all have some clue of what to do. In every industry there will ALWAYS be people doing jobs that they are not trained to do or able to do. I stopped at a house fire last year and was talking to a cop he said that if they would have showed up with 4 people that knew what they were doing they could have saved the house. To reply to the "state burning down comment. I can say yes it is a little here and a little there. There are some very Professional fire departments that I have see make amazing stops (Reading), and there are some departments I can say I do not know of them EVER saving a house. We need to start doing something about that and throwing money at them is not going to fix them

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register