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Thread: Do YOU Know????

  1. #41
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Thanks Rev. for keeping things in perspective.


  2. #42
    Forum Member dfdNo9's Avatar
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    Wink Family Ties

    Four things that family member should not do and expect not
    fight over. ie: THE BROTHERHOOD

    Talk about:

    Religion or Politics

    Buy or sell to one another

    Work in the same barn ( LOL )



    Keep the faith (what ever it may be) that keep you going!
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    EastKyFF

    You're right it is completely with his perogative to post that anyone that does not believe as he does is going to hell. I'm assuming from your posts that you agree, and that's fine.


    KParker

    I am not saying who goes to Heaven or not, God is, and ultimately each person makes that decision for themself by either rejecting or accepting Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord.
    That is according to the doctrine that you have been taught. Let's just take that a little step further shall we....salvation according to your doctrine is not a one time thing as you have implied. It is an ongoing process, requiring the blood of Calvary to continually flow.


    And about the Bible, I do not have an exact answer about why the Catholics have the 12 extra books in their bible, and I am certainly not saying that those books are true historically, because they are mentioned in the Bible.
    The 12 extra books were not put into the original KJ translation because they couldn't be confirmed in two of the three languages used for the translation.

    As far as the different traslations goes, that does not mean that the Bible has been changed, if you look at the ancient Greek and Hebrew text you will find that they are the same as the Scripture that we have today. The translations (not paraphrases) are the exact same verses with emphasis added to make them readable to the average joe.
    This is not an accurate statement at all. Several things have been removed and/or changed out of the originally KJ translation, which when it was done, the translation was checked twice to ensure accuracy. If there was an error found the individual who was doing the translation was put to death. You also might want to consider the fact that there was a warning given to all in the front and the back of the book not to change or remove ANYTHING, but then I'm sure you know that, after all it is according to YOUR doctrine.

    The New American Standard Bible had been proved to be the most accurate translation that is available.
    Proved by WHO? Does it contain the differentiation between the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit? If you don't believe me go pick up a copy of the original KJV not the new one, and read oh I don't know Jn 14:16-18, Jn 15:26 - 16:15, Acts 2 (which can also be cross referenced to Is 28:11. They are different you know. As I'm sure you're aware a blaspheme against the Holy Ghost isn't forgiven in this life or the life to come, according to YOUR doctrine.

    In case you haven't figured it out, I became a Christian a long time ago. While I'm sure that you intensions were good, I still do NOT think that this is the appropriate venue.

    That being said, here is something for you to consider, long before Christ ever walked on the earth people lived, people died, people worshipped in their own ways. After Christ was crucifed, the powers that be decided to go on a mission to convert all the 'heathen' people in the land. Those people who chose not to convert were killed. Does that sound like love you to?

    Wars have been raged in the name of god (not capitalized on purpose) on who is right and who is wrong. I have spent YEARS studing many different religions. Fundamentally the majority of them all say the same thing, right down to the "this is the only way". While aspects of the bible have been proven, there are many things claimed by other belief systems that haven't been either way. What about the people who have rememberance of a previous life? Near death experiences? Or have seen Ghosts? According to YOUR doctrine NONE of those things happen. Yet they are documented time and time again. Are those people lying, or delusional? Or could it just be that YOUR doctrine doesn't quite cover EVERYTHING?

    I personally REFUSE to accept the fact EVERY person on the planet will have a chance to hear about Christ before they die (which it also says in the bible, I'll get ya the scripture if you like). It is feasibly NOT possible. Therefore that choice to accept of deny Christ was NEVER given to them. Are you going to tell me they are in hell too? What about the baby that dies shortly after birth, children according to YOUR doctrine are sanctified by the believing mother or father until such a time as they can make their own decision. So are you going to tell me that a baby is going to go to hell because their parents don't believe? Or are you going to fall back on the "we are judged based on what we know" theory? Or the aboriginal people's who have NEVER seen anyone outside of their own tribe (yes they still do exsist), is an angel going to appear to them like Abraham and Lot and minister to them, so they can be converted?

    Are you going to tell me that people who have dedicated their lives to Christ, but might not be born again, therefore are not subscribed to YOUR doctrine are going to hell when they die? Or did your Pastor/minister whatever forget to mention that each person plays a different role, kinda like the boards in the arc. Just like NOT every person is meant to have prophecy, or the gift of tongues (which is different from the baptism of the Holy Ghost), or healing, or faith etc. They all come from the same place, according to your doctrine, that doesn't mean that each person is supposed to have each one. The only thing that EVERYONE according to your doctrine is supposed to have is the "fruits of the spirit" Gal 5:22-26.

    You know a lot of people seem to forget the love part. Witnessing isn't about shoving your belief down someone else's throat, it isn't about broadcasting on network TV or on these forums or anywhere else. It is about LOVE and living by example, and when people want to know they will ask you. You remember that "I have chosen you, you have not chosen me" thing.

    There was some mention about the people who responded to this post who were objecting were afraid or not willing to look at 'life after death'. I take exception to that statement. Nothing could be further from the truth. I became a born again christian 22 yrs ago by my own choice. I was baptized in the Holy Ghost (not water baptism different things) 10 yrs ago, and I walked away from organized religion 5 yrs ago.

    WHY because people who call themselves Christians, born again are the worst btw and often are the most hypocritical, are the most judgemental group on the planet. Assumptions are made and words spoken from a pulpit are taken as law. The very people who are supposed to be reached out to and loved are looked down on, and critized. The most fundamental of all teachings is forgotten, you know that thing Jesus wrote in the sand, the word was GRACE. I'm sorry but I don't see that here.

    According to YOUR doctrine I am going to hell, infact my place in hell will be a special one, because I have been 'enlightened' and walked away. You know what, I'm ok with people thinking that. No one knows the intention of my heart, and that is what it comes down to. I am NOT the least bit afraid of death or what comes after it. The plain truth is NONE of us will know for sure what happens until we are dead.

    Personally feel this should have been put in the "prayers" forum, I suppose then you wouldn't have had you audiance would you? Or you could have worded the subject question a little differently, so people not interested wouldn't be bothered to look, but there again you wouldn't have gotten your audiance. I hope that you are proud of yourself, you can go back to your congregaton and minister/pastor whatever, and tell them that you have been persecuted for your belief. They will pat you on the back, and tell you what a wonderful job you are doing, and how 'lost' the people are that don't susbribe to your belief and have posted their objections here. According to YOUR doctrine that is the way it's supposed to be, right? If you want to reach out and witness to people why don't you try your own neighbourhood, at least then you can take them back to your own church and know what they are being taught, or do you prefer throwing seed on rocky ground?
    Last edited by Temptaker; 11-14-2002 at 12:34 PM.

  4. #44
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    Well I have just gotten back to where I can check this forum, and a little happened overnight I see. EastKyFF thanks for the encouragement, this forum is going to make it I believe.

    1835Wayne, obviously you have some serious anger towards the church, or an religious organization, a religion, or somebody involved in one of the aformentioned organizations. I apologize for this, it happens, but that doesn't make it easier. I do not know what happened, but it was enough to create some serious bitter feelings towards them, and therefore me when I started this thread.

    I have no problem with his staements or beliefs except his statement that if you do not agree with his way, you are going to hell. I find it offensive that this thread has been allowed to continue and have asked the WT THREE TIMES to do something with it. Do we really need to discuss this here? Is this not a personall question that each person has to decide for themselves??
    Once again, I am not the person that said that if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell, He did, and I am merely repeating His words. I am not trying to scare people to Jesus, and I can not see where I am being negative or condemning anybody. I have a genuine love and concern for all of ya'll and I simply do not want anybody to miss out. This is a very personal question, and each person does have to decide in the end for themselves, but they can not decide how they want to go to Heaven, it does not happen that way. The choice that they make is to either 1) Accept Jesus and go to Heaven or 2) Reject Jesus and go to Hell. That's all there is to it, accept or reject. You are not rejecting me, my religion, or anything else other than Jesus Christ. I reckon I will have to continue repeating this over and over, this is a very valid thread in this forum, as it is an Off-Duty Forum, where all can post. I am sorry that you find that offensive. I do not think that this is something that calls for the webteam to lock it down, this is actually pretty mild like the Rev said. Ya'll stay safe out there....

  5. #45
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    KParker,

    Sorry but I don't believe that 1835Wayne has any hostility towards you or church for that matter. I happen to know that he is a church goer. It just happens to be that he doesn't think he's going to hell in a handbasket because he isn't born again.

    Please don't apologize for upsetting anyone, I don't believe that you are really sorry. It was your intention to stir the pot when you started this thread. I don't believe that any of us here are stupid enough to believe that you are so naive you didn't think you would provoke a reaction.

    Why is it exactly that you left my questions unanswered? You keep saying accept or reject, but you aren't fully educating your audiance. If you are going to come on here and use this forum as your own private pulpit and start preaching then you should be ready to answer some hard questions.

  6. #46
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    Temtaker, I am answering your questions, you posted while I was posting my first post, and then it said I had not specified a valid link or something. I am going to respond give me a chance.

  7. #47
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
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    Easy there Tempie, you seem quite fired up about this and I can understand that, religious descussions seem to do that to people. But, just make sure you are not doing to others that which you are accusing KParker of doing. Lets attempt to do what the Padre said and reach understanding, not agreement, or acceptance, understanding.
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  8. #48
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    Not fired up at all, just asking questions and waiting for some answers LC

    I have not told anyone what I believe, nor am I going to, other then the fact that I am ok with death.

    I would ask the same thing of anyone coming on here and telling me that I am going to hell because I don't subscribe to what they believe including the Rev.

    I do understand, all I am asking is that he show the same acceptance and tolerance of other peoples belief's. I am not asking that he agree with them or that he subscribe to them.

  9. #49
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    The choice that they make is to either 1) Accept Jesus and go to Heaven or 2) Reject Jesus and go to Hell. That's all there is to it, accept or reject.
    3) Follow the steps of your own religion.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #50
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    Just a general note.

    I do not have answers for your questions or what it is exactly you are seeking, I will know someday. And then will not be able to give you an answer.

    Yes, I have walked away from organised religion, and from Charismatics / Born Again call them what you will.

    Do I believe in a higher being, call him/her by whatever name you will. That is for myself and those I am close to to know.

    Please take the blinkers off and realise that they are WORDS in a book, The true spirit is within every living thing.

    Can someone please explain if there are animals in your heaven? And how the heck did they get there? Especially as they don't attend many of the churches I have seen. It would be a bloody depressing place without them.

    You worship your way, I will do it mine. You go inside the building and pray for people. I will put on PPE, get on the streets and do something on a personal level to help.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  11. #51
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    Ok gentlemen, every time I go to post it is telling me that I have not followed a valid link or something, so I am going to lunch, and then I will save my post to a Microsoft Word document and then post it. Hold your horses, it is coming...I have some answers....
    -Kris

  12. #52
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    Kiwi,

    Apparently animals are supposed to go to heaven. They don't have souls, only spirit, therefore follow their natural instinct. They were never given free choice that man has, so they don't sin. This is according to some theories.

    KParker,

    You know it's interesting that you can post to tell us you can't post.

  13. #53
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    I, for one, will spend eternity in an urn.

  14. #54
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    Ok, every time I went to post a large post it would not work out for me. So here is what I decided to do. Post a numerical list of the questions that you want answered, in the order that you want them answered, and I will try to answer them and do it with tact and proof behind them. I will then post my answer. All are invited to answer the questions. Please keep the number of questions down as I am only one person without much support. I will answer as fast as possible.
    -Kris

  15. #55
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    I really did try to stay out of this one - honest I did, but sometimes even the quiet guys have to speak out.... so here goes:

    (Take into account, these are my words alone and are spoken from my experiences both at home and abroad in the Mid-East; the Army has wonderful ways of introducing a person to new peoples and cultures)

    What gets me wound up the most about any religion is that when you filter out the hoolllyy goooggle and language scrap, they intrinsically say the same thing. Namely that you "should love your neighbour, repent your sins and if you are a good person you will attain heaven during the afterlife."

    As it happens, in addition to the "good message" they also tell that if another person doesnít flow the same way as you, they must be destroyed - now whatís with that?

    That is the "human intellect" interfering with a social concept, now if we could just switch that intellect "off" then all would be happy in the world.... hmmm not gonna happen anytime soon is it?

    Religious discussion for the sake of discussion is a great way of expressing ideas and trading thoughts, but when you have more than one particular religious group in the discussion, that is how it should stay - A DISCUSSION ONLY.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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  16. #56
    MembersZone Subscriber E229Lt's Avatar
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    1835Wayne, obviously you have some serious anger towards the church, or an religious organization, a religion, or somebody involved in one of the aformentioned organizations.
    Maybe he's tired of holy rollers ringing his doorbell and not taking the hint when we say "no thank you" or "not today".

    Ever heard the expression:

    "That's as rare as a Jehova's Witness in someone's livingroom"

    KParker: No thank you, not today!

  17. #57
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    Just one quick point, be very careful when you tell me what my doctrine believes in....because you do not know what my doctrine even is...therefore you don't know what it says. Oh, and one more thing, how is it that the first thing that I hear when I post is "Don't judge me" "You should be tolerant of others" Well then, what happens is that nobody is tolerant of what I have to say? Why is that? What about someone telling ME what I meant when I posted something? hmm....sounds like maybe some people believe some things only when it is convenient for you...in that case do you really believe that then???
    -Kris

  18. #58
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    Weeeelllll.....This is all well and good, but what I REEEAALLLYY want to know is if that is truly Dinty Moore's thumb print on the top of my can of stew?? If that's real......I mean that's one biiig thumb ...yeeeeessshh!!
    May we never forget our fallen, worldwide.

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  19. #59
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
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    Thank you for the lightening of the mood Stayback! And good to see that you are ok. I was begining to wonder if you were blown somewhere over the rainbow with the weather this past sunday!
    Shawn M. Cecula
    Firefighter
    IACOJ Division of Fire and EMS

  20. #60
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    Last edited by FlyingKiwi; 11-14-2002 at 04:23 PM.
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

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