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  1. #61
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    ROFLMAO !!!!!


    You guys are too much. Some even look for the worst in every post, we have a term for people like that - Pessimist (aka Naysayer, Worrywart, Gloomy Gus).

    What is so hard to comprehend about the fact that 2 or 3 beers is not a problem. Would be just like the person who takes a few aspirin or Ibuprofens.

    I see a large group of people saying you shouldn't drink and respond because they want you to be 100% on top of your game. Yet these same people can't seem to realize there are many other things that affect your ability to perform. It is just like the 20s all over again, for those lacking in history, that was the period of Prohibition in America. And if anyone is wondering, Prohibition was an experiment that failed miserably.

    Duffman: I wish I was in your department where every thing was perfect. Do you mean to tell me you have never had members who try to go above and beyond the call of duty.

    We do the best we can with limited resources. We don't have an SOP (that I have seen) about what state of mind and physical phitness you should be in to show up at a call. The only thing we have in writing is that members who are placed on disability can not show up at calls until they are released by their doctor. The other requirement is that they pass a physical once a year. We have 50 members, 30 of whom are active, 10 are semi active, and 10 just never show. Of the 30 or so active members you will be lucky to get 1/2 at any given call. Start throwing out people who had a beer for lunch, who have a sore leg or back, are on medication, and suddenly you may or may not have enough trained people to do the job.

    Believe me, there have been many times when the tones go off and I just sit home, as do most in the department. We do however listen to the communications and attempt to determine what is going on. A routine EMS call or car accident and we let the other guys handle it. A fully involved structure fire, you will see a few more guys show up. Hell, 2 weeks ago we had a call on a monday night. I had been at the clubhouse and had just gotten in my car to drive home. I went over and opened up the station. I started the rescue rig and pulled it out. I then stood back and waited for someone to show up and go on the call. No way I was going on an EMS call after having a couple of beers. Doesn't give the patient much confidence to smell alcohol on your breath. Of course diabetics give off the same smell.

    I perhaps, at times, push the envelope towards the extreme when posting some of my comments. That is only intended to counter the extremes posted by the opposition.

    Just keeping it real folks.


  2. #62
    MembersZone Subscriber jaybird210's Avatar
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    The trouble with cdevoe's "know your limits" argument is that, when we've been drinking, that limit tends to get pushed back. How much is too much? "I'm good now, I've only had two. Pour me another one and I'll tell you if I'm at my limit yet." How much is too much? Just one more....

    It's deptartments like these that cause volunteer depts. so much grief in trying to loose the "cellar-saver" image. When we banned booze from our house ten years ago, a couple of guys quit. Which ones were they? The ones that never came to training, came to the meetings only to drink and were bumblig fools on a fireground. No, I don't want a partner thats had 4, 3, or even one beer in him/her. And I don't want a bunch of drunks stumbling around my brother's house trying to find his kids in a smokey fire AND get out with them. It's hard enough to remember where you are and where you've been in fire building.

    These comments about volunteer deptartments not being able to meet the same levels of competence are nonsense. I know several vol/POC depts in my area that I would take over some of the career depts. Why? Training and commitment to excellence.

    Cdevoe, have you ever tried to read an NFPA standard? I have, and it's really very easy. I have no college education, and yet, reading 1403, or 1142 is no more difficult than reading the morning newspaper.

    It really is a sad commentary on the motivation of your force when you have to bribe them with booze to get them to train, clean, or critique.
    Last edited by jaybird210; 11-14-2002 at 10:51 AM.

  3. #63
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Originally posted by cdevoe
    What is so hard to comprehend about the fact that 2 or 3 beers is not a problem. Would be just like the person who takes a few aspirin or Ibuprofens.
    What planet are you from again?

    Stay Safe

  4. #64
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    Hold on a minute, I'm sure we would all prefer the guy next to us to be 100%. But isn't a guy at 80% better than none at all? Just food for thought.

    Second thing with the know the limits. How many FF have gone past their limits while fighting the fire? Too many.

    What we must realize is that the effects of alcohol vary from person to person. So while Fire Fighter A can't function after a beer, Fire Fighter B may have no problem.

    I'm not advocating drunks on the scene. But as I have said in another forum here, be consistant. Don't regulate just one aspect of a person's lifestyle. If you are to regulate the health and welfare of the members, then do a complete job, not half assed. How about requireing regular PT? How about outlawing smoking??

  5. #65
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    To answer PA, I am from Earth, not Utopia.

  6. #66
    Forum Member MIKEYLIKESIT's Avatar
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    Default NEWS FLASH

    "Mr" Pfire is actually MS.Pfire..

  7. #67
    IACOJ BOD FlyingKiwi's Avatar
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    Default Good Grief Charlie Brown.

    I had been at the clubhouse and had just gotten in my car to drive home. I went over and opened up the station. I started the rescue rig and pulled it out. I then stood back and waited for someone to show up and go on the call. No way I was going on an EMS call after having a couple of beers
    Had enough beer NOT to go on the call.

    And then get in your car and DRIVE home.

    HALLOOO does anybody else see a problem here?
    Psychiatrists state 1 in 4 people has a mental illness.
    Look at three of your friends, if they are ok, your it.

  8. #68
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    There's the big problem with alcohol in (or very near) the firehouse. When the call comes in, that temptation to respond is too great to let us say, "Hey, I had a beer, I'm off duty."

    I'm really at the point in this argument where my signature speaks for itself.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.Ē
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  9. #69
    MembersZone Subscriber jaybird210's Avatar
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    Good catch, Kiwi!

    Here's a quote from cdevoe in another thread:
    I personally don't smoke. I don't believe it helps the firefighter perform better.
    However, having 2, 3, 6, beers; why that's dern near as good as eatin' a power bar!

    How many fireifghters have gone beyond their limits at a fire? Too many.
    Hmm. Yes, you're probably right about that. It's really pretty much the same to go beyond your limits of physical strength or endurance to save someone's life or property, and go jumpin' in the big red truck so's you can play with the woo-woo lights....

  10. #70
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Default My department and I aren't perfect, but cleary are closer to it than you and yours.

    How about requireing regular PT?
    News flash

    Many departments do require regular PT. We also receive annual physicals. The result. People have been taken off shift until their health improves. Potentially fatal health problems have been discovered.

  11. #71
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    For the record the subject of my last post refers only to cdevoe

  12. #72
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Unhappy WOW!

    I just got done reading the thread.......... Is this guys real name Alan Baird??????? He seems to be doing a lot of "Bairding"!!!
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  13. #73
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    He has got to have one tooth and six fingers.......
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    The beatings will continue until the morale improves

  14. #74
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Duffman: I wish I was in your department where every thing was perfect. Do you mean to tell me you have never had members who try to go above and beyond the call of duty.

    I would like to think that everyone on my department tries to go above and beyond. We don't freelance however. We work as companies and when the company is sent to rehab, they all go.

  15. #75
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    His logic requires that a brain surgeon have a couple before they probe his brain....
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    The beatings will continue until the morale improves

  16. #76
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Default Public Image

    I see a lot of mention on this thread about the public's perception of us (volunteers) as "cellar-savers", "good ol boys drinking", "drunks", etc. While I know 15-20 years ago, that perception was around in my area, I find now that it has vanished. The general public in my area does not think of firefighters in this way at all, in fact, we are very highly respected. I would like to think this is due to our hard work at letting the public know the truth about what we do and making ourselves visible doing it. Are there companies out there who don't put forth their best effort at educating the public about themselves? Are there companies who are not trying show a better public image? Does anyone still have the general poplulation referring to them as cellar-savers and/or drunks and/or just hanging around drinking? Isn't it up to us to clear up these inaccuracies and show a better image?


    PS. cdevoe did not create his fire company, he is a product of what they have been doing long before him. He might not know any other way for a firehouse to run.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  17. #77
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    Duffman must be in a paid department. I can just see us trying to get volunteers to pass a PT test, let alone do regular PT.

    Of course, being in this forum is like talking to the wall.

    No amount of logic will work in here.

    So let's ask this question. Does everyone here believe that every fire fighter is working at 100% at every call. This includes mentally and physically. If you can show me that every firefighter has never worked a call at less than 100% then I will give the no beer thing. Unfortunately, I would be willing to bet that 99.987% of all firefighters have worked a call where they didn't have 100% control of the mental and physical state.

    Everyone has days where they just aren't as sharp as the usually are. Everyone has days when their body is depleted, be it from the previous days activities are just an illness. And I guarantee that nearly every fire fighter has responded to a call in a diminished state. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not telling the truth.

  18. #78
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    Public Image is something entirely new. I believe our department simply goes to the local school during fire week. We also have an open house. As far as promoting the image, it doesn't happen. This is a small community, most in the community at least know 1 fire fighter.

    I have heard of talk of a web site for some time. Every time I ask about, so and so is working on it. I'm still waiting. How does one promote a positive image.

  19. #79
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    Just a little more food for thought here. Does anyone do any drug testing? I'm curious because we do all kinds of test and regulation of alcohol, but nothing seems to get done about illegal drugs or the use of prescription drugs. Everyone seems hell bent on the "evils" of alcohol. Nothing else seems to matter.

  20. #80
    Forum Member BCmdepas3280's Avatar
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    Why ? I don't see where it would matter in your neck of the woods
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    The beatings will continue until the morale improves

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