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  1. #21
    IACOJ Agitator Adze39's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    In a van down by the CT River!


    Originally posted by stillPSFB
    about 4900 Lieutenants
    But do you have enough?
    IACOJ Agitator
    Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

  2. #22
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Aug 2001


    Originally posted by Adze39

    But do you have enough?
    Never, we always seem to have either too many or too few at a fire
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

  3. #23
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002

    Question Thank you for everyones response, now the real question

    If you have a dept of 70 Volunteer Fire fighters, how many Line officers (Capt and Lieutenants) do you think your department should have? We have 1 Chief and 3 Assist Chiefs, 1 Capt and 2 Lieutenants.

    If you think you would need more, please explain why?

    I am working on writing a position paper on why my department should consider additional officers and your help is greatly appreciated.


    We are a single station that has 3 Eng, Truck, Heavy Rescue and several special service units and run on average 800 calls per year. (No EMS)

  4. #24
    Senior Member dmsmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Mabas Div. 4


    1 Chief
    1 Deputy Chief

    3 Captains (Shift Commanders)
    3 Lt's (Assistant Shift Commanders)

    1 Captain strictly for Bureau functions
    Guinness....a meal in a can!
    IACOJ, Flatlander Division

  5. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2001


    we have a fully volunteer fire dept. and emergency squad(ambulance) of somewhere in the area of 100-130 members

    1 Chief
    2 Asst. Chiefs
    3 Captains
    3 First Lts.
    2 Second Lts.
    1 EMS Captain
    1 EMS Asst. Captain
    2 Safety Officers
    1 Fire Police Cheif
    3 Asst. Fire Police Cheifs

    phew i think that's it...

  6. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002


    FF Skull

    dont you think you are being a little harsh on drkbl?. i think he brings up some good points. in my department some of the officers are a joke!

    we have individuals who should be officers but are not because they don't "fit in"..they are honest people (not butt kissers) who have experience and knowledge but unfortunately don't get a chance.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2002


    I have to agree with Jnglgym.
    I'm on a newly formed department and half of the officers that were chosen are untrained and inexperienced. They are struggling to lead people on the the team with years of experience. Several experienced people who were trying for the positions quit the team and others are giving less of their time than before. The decision of officers has split our team right down the middle. The experienced have ended up taking over at scenes because the "green" officers are not getting the job done.
    The chief and the fire board know my opinion of the situation as well as others who have expressed concern or outright dissapproval. The fire board sees the problems their decision has caused and I know that they are not happy with the chief over this. All positions are up for review next August and I believe there will be changes forthcoming.
    I think many departments have these kinds of problems and it's usually no secret. I also made reference in my post to dissapproving of our officers and I have no problem with that. It makes me nervous to have a "butt kisser" calling the shots rather than an experienced individual.
    S. Davis
    Charter Member, Executive Committe Member - Fraternal Order of Paramedics

    Shoot for the moon - even if you miss, you'll still be amongst the stars.

  8. #28
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    central new york


    80 active members
    1 chief
    1 deputy chief
    2 assn't chiefs
    2 capt.
    4 lt.

    there is one capt and 2 lt at each station

  9. #29
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002

    Default On going problem


    You hit it right on the head.

    We have a similar problem, we have officers that have extensive knowledge and have been in the service for a long time, but have lack of experience with leadership and people skills and actual hands on fire fighting.

    The problem, if you want to be an officer in our department, 9 out of 10 times, unless you brown nosing or *** kiss certain officers butts, regardless of your qualifications and abilities, your going to be left out in the cold.

    Too try and counter this, I have asked the question with some of the officers if a department has several members running for a position and all are qualified, why not create another slot. My reasoning, your grooming someone for a senior position, your helping with an already over extended tired group of officers, your getting someone else dedicated in providing something more then other members and most important, they want to give something extra to the department beyond what they have already done to this point.

    I am sure you can guest what some of the answers I received:

    We would have only officers responding to calls instead of FF.
    We will have to many officers,
    What will the new officers responsibilities be?
    What if they don't want to run next year and that leaves us with an open officers slot
    We have to many officers already
    We where looking at eliminating an officer's slot.
    And it goes on & on.

    So its come down to: kiss someones butt or continue to butt heads. I am not changing because someone may want me to be a yes man.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2002


    1 volunteer department comprised of 6 companies.

    350 members in department.

    1 chief.

    10 assistant chiefs

    6 company captains who appoint 2-3 lts and sgts as needed.

    As Captain of Co. #1, I have 3 lts, and 3 sgts.

    I have 45 men in my company. 7 officers, gives me span of control ratio of 6 to 1. That's manageable.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2002

    Default Officers

    We have: Chief of Department
    Duty Chief
    3 ASST. Chief's
    3 Capt.'s
    1 LT.
    We don't have a Safety Officer, the officers are not up to date yet.


  12. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    May 1999


    We have a Chief, First and Second Assistant Chiefs, Fire Marshall, Rescue Captain, Chaplain, Secretary, and Training Officer.

    We are a combo Department. We have 4 paid men and about 30 volunteers.


    "The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits".-Albert Einstien

    "If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door"-Milton Berle

  13. #33
    Forum Member XCAPT1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Suffolk LI,NY


    My department has seven companys. Five of those companys are fireline and the other two are not. We operate from two stations with about 150 members.

    We have:

    1 Chief
    3 Assist Chiefs
    5 Fireline Captains
    2 Non-Fireline Captains (EMS & Fire Police)
    5 Fireline Lieutenants
    2 Non-Fireline Lieutenants (EMS & Fire Police)

  14. #34
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2002

    Default officers

    we are volly dept. with about 30 members we run about 300 calls and this is what works for us

    1 chief
    1 asst. chief
    2 Capt. one is a training officer
    2 Lt.
    1 rescue Lt.

  15. #35
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Oct 2002


    Volunteer, 1 station, 22 members

    1 Chief
    1 Asistanct Chief
    2 Captians

    Administation positions:

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Northwest Indiana

    Default officer structure

    20 member volunteer department=100 calls per year:

    Fire ground: 1 chief, 1 ***'t chief, 1 capt., 1 lieut.

    administrative: chief acts as pres, ***'t chief as vice pres, secretary, treasurer, training officer.

    all of the above are elected by the membership every two years and constitute the 'administrative board', however the lieut is also the treasurer and others can have one office on each side of the firegroung/administrative fence.

    In the event none of the fireground officers are present at a scene, it's every man for himself OK...maybe seniority figures in there somewhere. It has rarely happened, though.

  17. #37
    MembersZone Subscriber
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Wood River IL


    1 Chief
    2 Asst Chiefs
    2 Captains

  18. #38
    MembersZone Subscriber Capt217's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002

    Cool How many officers in department

    Our department has the following:

    Paid Positions:

    1 Chief
    1 Fire Marshal
    1 Training Officer
    1 EMS Officer/Admin

    Volunteer Positions:

    1 Assistant Chief (currently vacant, to be filled 2003 by a captain)
    6 Captains (will become 5 after AC position is filled)
    1-5 Lts (depends on candidates and ability to pass all tests)

    The Lts positions are training positions with our department. They are used to fill captains positions when one becomes available. We do not test for captain positions for this reason.

    The Fire Marshal and Training Officer positions are admin officer positions but in the event of an abscence of an officer, like during the day, they may fullfill the officers roll on the apparatus or may be assinged an officers roll on the fire ground/incident scene by the IC.

    The AC and Captains pull duty weeks. In essence the Captains act with the authority of the Fire Chief, just like BC's. The AC is self explanitory in its roll.

    We currently have 40 members including the paid staff but have had as many as 60.

    Our membership size determines how many officers we have for the most part. We do have 3 stations, 1 main and 2 sub, so 3 captains are at the main station and 1 at each sub. The AC resides at the main station also. Span of control is a crucial factor in number of officers. We do not go below 1 Chief, 1 AC and 5 Captains though.

    The Lts are usually paired up with a Captain and after a probationary period and critic of there skills, they may cover an officers duty week in part or full, but are not assigned a duty week themselves.

    Hope this helps.
    Captain Tom Kichenmaster
    Philomath Fire & Rescue
    Philomath, OR.

    Every day brings us new and exciting challenges. It is up to us to either embrace them or let them destroy us.

  19. #39
    Firehouse.com Guest


    We have
    1 Chief
    1 Deputy Chief
    1 Batt Chief
    2 Capt's
    4 Lt's (one that acts only as safety officer)

    Total members: 32, 9 Officers

    Lt. Chuck
    Florosa Fire Department

  20. #40
    Temporarily/No Longer Active Oushore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002


    I'm from North-Eastern Pennsylvania; and I can tell you from just listening... I know some people have too many officers! DON'T GIVE THEM ALL PORTABLE/MOBILE RADIOS!!!! They are 100% wackers! You can write a freakin book w/ all the talking they do! Totally unnecessary radio-jumble! So I think companies have too wany officers... When there's a fire you hear:
    Nowhereville-1 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-2 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-3 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-4 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-5 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-6 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-7 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-8 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-9 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-10 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-11 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-12 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-13 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-14 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-15 enroute to the scene

    Nowhereville-1 at the hall
    Nowhereville-2 at the hall
    Nowhereville-3 at the hall
    Nowhereville-4 at the hall
    Nowhereville-5 at the hall
    Nowhereville-6 at the hall
    Nowhereville-7 at the hall
    Nowhereville-8 at the hall
    Nowhereville-9 on the scene
    Nowhereville-10 on scene
    Nowhereville-11 show me on scene
    Nowhereville-12 county show me on scene
    Nowhereville-13 county show me on the scene
    Nowhereville-14 county put me on scene
    Nowhereville-15 county put me on the scene

    Nowhereville-9 to county, we have a once car mav, no injuries
    Nowhereville-10 to control, we have a 90 car potential pile up
    Nowhereville-11 OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-12 we need a chopper
    Nowhereville-13 have rescue step it up
    Nowhereville-14 we need an LZ
    Nowhereville-15 I think it may me a structure fire too

    Nowhereville-1 Diverting to the scene, call AA-ville for a rescue
    Nowhereville-2 Diverting to the scene, Call BB-ville for a tanker
    Nowhereville-3 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-4 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-5 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-6 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-7 Diverting to the scene, we need a ladder truck
    Nowhereville-8 Diverting to the scene, we need fire police to shut down 50 miles of road in all direction around town.

    Nowhereville-Fire Police-1 responding to Route 1
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-2 responding to route 2
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-3 responding to route 3
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-4 responding to route 4
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-5 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-6 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-7 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-8 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-9 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-10 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-11 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-12 responding we need mutual aid
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-13 responding we need mutual aid
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-14 responding we need mutual aid
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-15 responding we need an extra flares, I want the space shuttle to see us!
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-16 responding OH MY GOD

    And That's what happens when you have so many officers that have portable radios... Don't believe me? Move to North East PA and buy a scanner... Also some ear plugs... and a note pad and pen. Some of the things you hear you could write book for worlds stupidest things the firemen said on the radio...

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