1. #26
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    FF Skull



    dont you think you are being a little harsh on drkbl?. i think he brings up some good points. in my department some of the officers are a joke!

    we have individuals who should be officers but are not because they don't "fit in"..they are honest people (not butt kissers) who have experience and knowledge but unfortunately don't get a chance.

  2. #27
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    I have to agree with Jnglgym.
    I'm on a newly formed department and half of the officers that were chosen are untrained and inexperienced. They are struggling to lead people on the the team with years of experience. Several experienced people who were trying for the positions quit the team and others are giving less of their time than before. The decision of officers has split our team right down the middle. The experienced have ended up taking over at scenes because the "green" officers are not getting the job done.
    The chief and the fire board know my opinion of the situation as well as others who have expressed concern or outright dissapproval. The fire board sees the problems their decision has caused and I know that they are not happy with the chief over this. All positions are up for review next August and I believe there will be changes forthcoming.
    I think many departments have these kinds of problems and it's usually no secret. I also made reference in my post to dissapproving of our officers and I have no problem with that. It makes me nervous to have a "butt kisser" calling the shots rather than an experienced individual.
    S. Davis
    EMT-B/FF
    Charter Member, Executive Committe Member - Fraternal Order of Paramedics


    Shoot for the moon - even if you miss, you'll still be amongst the stars.

  3. #28
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    80 active members
    1 chief
    1 deputy chief
    2 assn't chiefs
    2 capt.
    4 lt.


    there is one capt and 2 lt at each station

  4. #29
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    Default On going problem

    LandsEnds05

    You hit it right on the head.

    We have a similar problem, we have officers that have extensive knowledge and have been in the service for a long time, but have lack of experience with leadership and people skills and actual hands on fire fighting.

    The problem, if you want to be an officer in our department, 9 out of 10 times, unless you brown nosing or *** kiss certain officers butts, regardless of your qualifications and abilities, your going to be left out in the cold.

    Too try and counter this, I have asked the question with some of the officers if a department has several members running for a position and all are qualified, why not create another slot. My reasoning, your grooming someone for a senior position, your helping with an already over extended tired group of officers, your getting someone else dedicated in providing something more then other members and most important, they want to give something extra to the department beyond what they have already done to this point.

    I am sure you can guest what some of the answers I received:

    We would have only officers responding to calls instead of FF.
    We will have to many officers,
    What will the new officers responsibilities be?
    What if they don't want to run next year and that leaves us with an open officers slot
    We have to many officers already
    We where looking at eliminating an officer's slot.
    And it goes on & on.


    So its come down to: kiss someones butt or continue to butt heads. I am not changing because someone may want me to be a yes man.

  5. #30
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    1 volunteer department comprised of 6 companies.

    350 members in department.

    1 chief.

    10 assistant chiefs

    6 company captains who appoint 2-3 lts and sgts as needed.

    As Captain of Co. #1, I have 3 lts, and 3 sgts.

    I have 45 men in my company. 7 officers, gives me span of control ratio of 6 to 1. That's manageable.

  6. #31
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    Default Officers

    We have: Chief of Department
    Duty Chief
    3 ASST. Chief's
    3 Capt.'s
    1 LT.
    We don't have a Safety Officer, the officers are not up to date yet.


    FTM-PTB-KTF-EGH-RFB
    LEATHER FOREVER

  7. #32
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    We have a Chief, First and Second Assistant Chiefs, Fire Marshall, Rescue Captain, Chaplain, Secretary, and Training Officer.

    We are a combo Department. We have 4 paid men and about 30 volunteers.

    Ed
    I.A.C.O.J.-Member

    "The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits".-Albert Einstien

    "If opportunity doesn't knock, build a door"-Milton Berle

  8. #33
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    My department has seven companys. Five of those companys are fireline and the other two are not. We operate from two stations with about 150 members.

    We have:

    1 Chief
    3 Assist Chiefs
    5 Fireline Captains
    2 Non-Fireline Captains (EMS & Fire Police)
    5 Fireline Lieutenants
    2 Non-Fireline Lieutenants (EMS & Fire Police)

  9. #34
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    Default officers

    we are volly dept. with about 30 members we run about 300 calls and this is what works for us

    1 chief
    1 asst. chief
    2 Capt. one is a training officer
    2 Lt.
    1 rescue Lt.

  10. #35
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    Volunteer, 1 station, 22 members

    1 Chief
    1 Asistanct Chief
    2 Captians

    Administation positions:
    President
    Vice-President
    Secritary/Tresurer

  11. #36
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    Default officer structure

    20 member volunteer department=100 calls per year:

    Fire ground: 1 chief, 1 ***'t chief, 1 capt., 1 lieut.

    administrative: chief acts as pres, ***'t chief as vice pres, secretary, treasurer, training officer.

    all of the above are elected by the membership every two years and constitute the 'administrative board', however the lieut is also the treasurer and others can have one office on each side of the firegroung/administrative fence.

    In the event none of the fireground officers are present at a scene, it's every man for himself OK...maybe seniority figures in there somewhere. It has rarely happened, though.

  12. #37
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    Smile

    1 Chief
    2 Asst Chiefs
    2 Captains

  13. #38
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    Cool How many officers in department

    Our department has the following:

    Paid Positions:

    1 Chief
    1 Fire Marshal
    1 Training Officer
    1 EMS Officer/Admin

    Volunteer Positions:

    1 Assistant Chief (currently vacant, to be filled 2003 by a captain)
    6 Captains (will become 5 after AC position is filled)
    1-5 Lts (depends on candidates and ability to pass all tests)

    The Lts positions are training positions with our department. They are used to fill captains positions when one becomes available. We do not test for captain positions for this reason.

    The Fire Marshal and Training Officer positions are admin officer positions but in the event of an abscence of an officer, like during the day, they may fullfill the officers roll on the apparatus or may be assinged an officers roll on the fire ground/incident scene by the IC.

    The AC and Captains pull duty weeks. In essence the Captains act with the authority of the Fire Chief, just like BC's. The AC is self explanitory in its roll.

    We currently have 40 members including the paid staff but have had as many as 60.

    Our membership size determines how many officers we have for the most part. We do have 3 stations, 1 main and 2 sub, so 3 captains are at the main station and 1 at each sub. The AC resides at the main station also. Span of control is a crucial factor in number of officers. We do not go below 1 Chief, 1 AC and 5 Captains though.

    The Lts are usually paired up with a Captain and after a probationary period and critic of there skills, they may cover an officers duty week in part or full, but are not assigned a duty week themselves.

    Hope this helps.
    Captain Tom Kichenmaster
    Philomath Fire & Rescue
    Philomath, OR.

    *****************************
    Every day brings us new and exciting challenges. It is up to us to either embrace them or let them destroy us.

  14. #39
    Rescuegunr509
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    We have
    1 Chief
    1 Deputy Chief
    1 Batt Chief
    2 Capt's
    4 Lt's (one that acts only as safety officer)

    Total members: 32, 9 Officers

    Lt. Chuck
    Florosa Fire Department
    www.florosafire.com[B]

  15. #40
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    Angry

    I'm from North-Eastern Pennsylvania; and I can tell you from just listening... I know some people have too many officers! DON'T GIVE THEM ALL PORTABLE/MOBILE RADIOS!!!! They are 100% wackers! You can write a freakin book w/ all the talking they do! Totally unnecessary radio-jumble! So I think companies have too wany officers... When there's a fire you hear:
    Nowhereville-1 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-2 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-3 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-4 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-5 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-6 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-7 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-8 enroute to the hall
    Nowhereville-9 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-10 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-11 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-12 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-13 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-14 enroute to the scene
    Nowhereville-15 enroute to the scene

    Nowhereville-1 at the hall
    Nowhereville-2 at the hall
    Nowhereville-3 at the hall
    Nowhereville-4 at the hall
    Nowhereville-5 at the hall
    Nowhereville-6 at the hall
    Nowhereville-7 at the hall
    Nowhereville-8 at the hall
    Nowhereville-9 on the scene
    Nowhereville-10 on scene
    Nowhereville-11 show me on scene
    Nowhereville-12 county show me on scene
    Nowhereville-13 county show me on the scene
    Nowhereville-14 county put me on scene
    Nowhereville-15 county put me on the scene

    Nowhereville-9 to county, we have a once car mav, no injuries
    Nowhereville-10 to control, we have a 90 car potential pile up
    Nowhereville-11 OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-12 we need a chopper
    Nowhereville-13 have rescue step it up
    Nowhereville-14 we need an LZ
    Nowhereville-15 I think it may me a structure fire too

    Nowhereville-1 Diverting to the scene, call AA-ville for a rescue
    Nowhereville-2 Diverting to the scene, Call BB-ville for a tanker
    Nowhereville-3 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-4 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-5 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-6 Diverting to the scene, OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-7 Diverting to the scene, we need a ladder truck
    Nowhereville-8 Diverting to the scene, we need fire police to shut down 50 miles of road in all direction around town.

    Nowhereville-Fire Police-1 responding to Route 1
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-2 responding to route 2
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-3 responding to route 3
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-4 responding to route 4
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-5 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-6 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-7 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-8 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-9 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-10 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-11 responding OH MY GOD
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-12 responding we need mutual aid
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-13 responding we need mutual aid
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-14 responding we need mutual aid
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-15 responding we need an extra flares, I want the space shuttle to see us!
    Nowhereville-Fire Police-16 responding OH MY GOD


    And That's what happens when you have so many officers that have portable radios... Don't believe me? Move to North East PA and buy a scanner... Also some ear plugs... and a note pad and pen. Some of the things you hear you could write book for worlds stupidest things the firemen said on the radio...

  16. #41
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    Capt1GVFD,

    10 assistant chiefs! What do these guys (or gals) do?

  17. #42
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    Do all 10 Asst. Chiefs get cars?
    B Holmes

  18. #43
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    Default

    You have to realize that we have 6 companies in the Department. It's all volunteer. All told we have 5 Class 1 Engines, 1 Truck, 3 Rescues - one of them a heavy rescue, an air truck, a ppv/foam truck, A salvage truck, a water salvage truck, 3 utility trucks, a band truck, a dive truck - and dive team of course, a blood hound team for SAR, a rope team, and equipment cache's for a rope team, special operations teams, trench rescue teams, etc., etc. I'm sure I missed a few.

    On the operations side the company captains are responsible for their respective companies and equipment. The Assistant chiefs are responsible for coordinating all department activities, etc. That's a big task for a volunteer department, so the tasks are spread out over enough people.

    The Asst chiefs get red lights and sirens, I don't really know who buys those, but the city does not purchase them a vehicle. Only the chief gets a city vehicle. A suburban.

    The system works well for us. We usually get a rapid sizeup from someone who has a radio and are able to either cancel unneeded units quickly, or assign them tasks.
    If you can keep your head about you, while those around you are losing theirs, then you will be a man my son.

    Rudyard Kipling.

  19. #44
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    16 member all volunteer rural fire department
    1 Chief
    1 Assistant chief
    2 Captains
    2 Lieutenants
    Thats about a 1 to 2.2 span of control. Officers are elected every year.

  20. #45
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    We have an all volunteer department of about 30 members. We have 5 officers:
    1 Chief
    1 Asst. Chief
    1 Capt.
    2 Lt.

    All of these positions are layed out in our dept. by-laws. The Chief and Asst. Chief have fire ground and administrative duties. Other duties are divided amoung the other officers. App. maintance(Capt.), Station maintance(1st Lt.), PPE/Radios and pagers(2nd Lt.). We have a total of 10 position reserved for officers. Our dept. hasn't felt the need to expand these position any further to this point, but we always have room to do so.

  21. #46
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    By laws state we shall have 40 members, but only have 30 right now protecting a community of 7,000, riverfront, and outlying areas.

    1 chief
    1 asst. chief
    1st captain
    2nd captain
    1st Lt.
    2nd Lt.
    3rd Lt.
    3 trustee's
    President
    Treasurer
    Secretary

  22. #47
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    Default when do you have enough officers

    I come from a small volunteer department. One of my greatest reservations is not how many officers, but what are the qualification and training requirements for these positions? We have a good old boy system of giving the ones with the least amount of formal training and education the positions with the greatest amount of responsibilities. I would give anything for one educated and experienced captain than the one that won the popularity contest.

  23. #48
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    Default OIC

    We have a chief, 2 AC's, 1 Captain, 2 Lt's.
    we have 3 crews. 1 Line officer per crew then they also
    handlethe different bureau..Training,Maint., Arson/Fire
    Prevention, 1 AC takes care HAZMAT, the other Safety.
    Ours are out of necessity.
    AKA: Mr. Whoo-Whoo

    IAFF Local 3900

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  24. #49
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    we currently run 5 stations and have around 100 members we have 1 chief, 2 district chiefs,1 safety officer, 1 training officer,9 captains,10 lt.'s i think its more than enough officers for the amount of members we have.

  25. #50
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    You know you have too many officers when they out number the amount of firefighters!

    My hometown dept(combination with 5 stations):
    Fire Chief (Paid)
    Deputy Chief (Paid
    Fire Marshal (Paid)
    Fire Prevention Officer (Paid)
    Fire & EMS Officers (Paid)
    4 District Chiefs (Volunteer)
    4 Assistant Chiefs (Volunteer)
    14 Captains (6 of them paid)
    7 Lieutenants (Volunteer)

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