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  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    Default When do you have enough officers???

    I would like to hear back from Depts on how many officers they have and when do you feel there are enough officers on your Dept?


    If there is a limit of officers, explain who established thoses limits and possible why?






  2. #2
    Junior Member
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    Default

    We have a grand total of 10 officers. 1 chief, 2 asst. chiefs, 1 captain, 4 lt's, 1 officer in training, and 1 fire marshall. Our by-laws lay out how many officers we have. Our 40 members our split into 4 companys and each has a lt. Pretty simple and works good.

    Stay safe!

  3. #3
    Senior Member
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    Default

    1 chief, 3 asst chiefs, 1 training officer, 1 rescue captain
    1 District Chief

    All are set by our by-laws.

    This is the fire structure, we also have some admin positions

    President
    Vice-president
    secretary
    treasurer
    Board of Directors (2)
    Remember,

    If you don't respond.....who will

    IACOJ EMS Bureau Member
    IACOJ Member

  4. #4
    iceman4442
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    Default

    We have 1 Chief, 1 Asst. Chief, 2 Captains, & 2 Lieutenants. These are the operational officers - there are also some admin. positions, secretary/treasurer, retirement committee members, etc.

    30 person department, including officers.

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
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    Default

    I volunteer at a 3 service house. Engine/Ladder/EMS. We have 3 line positions for each.

    Chief of Department
    Deputy Chief- Also In charge of EMS
    Assistant Chief- Basic run of the mill Firefighting Chief

    Captain- Engine Co.
    Captain- Truck Co.(Currently vacant)
    Captain- EMS (Currently vacant)

    Lieutenant- Engine Co.
    Lieutenant- Truck Co.(Currently Vacant)
    Lieutenant- EMS (Currently vacant)

    Sergeant- Engine Co.
    Sergeant- Truck Co.
    3rd Sergeant
    Sergeant EMS

    Fire Marshall- Does company stats
    Engineer- Assits the Career Fire Technician with apparatus Maintenance.

    Seems like alot, but really with the amoutn of active members we have, the span of control is manageable.

  6. #6
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Dauphin County, PA
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    Default

    Oh no ...

    Stay Safe

  7. #7
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    West Chester,PA
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    Default

    As set forth by our Company's By-Laws we have:
    1 Chief
    1 Deputy
    2 Assistant Chiefs
    1 Captain
    2 Lt's

    Each of the lower 3 Chiefs are responsible for a
    different area, i.e. training,apparatus maint,
    portable equipment, quartmaster, etc.

  8. #8
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    Default

    Our department has 1 chief, 1 assist. chief, 1 EMS co-ordinator, 1 Captain and 2 LT's.
    It is my opinion that this is too many officers for a 22 member, all volunteer team. It's creating a "too many chiefs and not enough indians" situation. You wouldn't believe the turmoil that is beginning to errupt.
    We are a new district formed this year. I nearly blew a gasket when our board chose all of these officers. I knew it would be too many for such a small department. And get this.....only two of those officers that were chosen have previous department experience and appropriate skills! The others are completely inexperienced and just became first responders this summer, yet they were chosen over experienced members for the positions.
    I have served on other departments that were the same size or larger than ours and they functioned just fine with 1 chief, 1 asst. chief and 1 EMS chief. Several other departments in our area function just fine with minimal officers.
    S. Davis
    EMT-B/FF
    Charter Member, Executive Committe Member - Fraternal Order of Paramedics


    Shoot for the moon - even if you miss, you'll still be amongst the stars.

  9. #9
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    Silver City, Oklahoma USA
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    Default

    We have the Chief, Asst Chief, one Captain and two Lts. We will probably create an EMS Captain or EMS Officer (equivilent to a captain) position next year.

    We have 20 members that are firefighters, and hope to recruit a few more medical-only members next year. We're at about a 5-to-1 ratio, which isn't bad.

    The only position spelled out in the By-Laws are the Chief and Asst Chief.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

  10. #10
    Forum Member
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    Vancouver Island, BC Canada
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    Default

    30 member- 2 hall all Volunteer Department.

    1 Chief, 1 Deputy Chief, 2 Capt's and 3 Lt's.

    Each has certain responsabilities for day to day Op's.

    On the fire ground of course depends on who is there and who has Command.

    7 is a good number, unless we roll during an officers meeting. Funny to watch white and red helmets all barking orders and no one carrying them out!

  11. #11
    Senior Member shammrock54's Avatar
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    Default

    For my on call dept w/ two stations we have

    1 Chief
    4 Deputies (one however is a retired chief and not active in fire ops, just in administrative matters)
    2 Captains (one per station)
    8 Lts (4 per station)
    * my station until Sept had 6 Lts but we lowered the number to more represent the membership.
    Member IACOJ & IACOJ EMS Bureau
    New England FOOL
    "LEATHER FOREVER"
    As always these are strictly my own opinions and views

  12. #12
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    Bristol,Pa
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    Default

    My Dept. 1 Chief,1 Deputy,1 Assist., 1 Cap. and 2 LTs.

  13. #13
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    NW Ohio
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    Default

    we have 35 members including officers and the break down is as follows:
    1 Fire Chief
    1 Asssitant Fire Chief -in charge of EMS
    1 Fire Captain- in charge of all fire training (drills)
    1 EMS Captain- in charge of all EMS training (drills)
    2 Fire Lieutenants
    2 EMS Lieutenants
    this gives us a span of control of about 5 to 1. We are a department where both fire and EMS run out of. Whenever 2 officers of the same rank are on a call then the officer whose "specialty" (Fire or EMS) is related to the call, just lets that officer do his thing.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  14. #14
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    Bel Air, MD
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    Default

    100% volunteer department:

    (1) Chief
    (1) Deputy Chief
    (2) Asst Chiefs (Fire)
    (1) Asst Chief (EMS)

    House #1
    (2) Captains (Fire)
    (4) Lieutenants (Fire)
    (1) Captain (EMS)
    (3) Lieutenants (EMS)

    House #2
    (1) Captain (Fire)
    (2) Lieutenants (Fire)

    These positions are established by our Bylaws. All of our officers are voting for yearly. However, there are specific training and call response criterea spelled out in the Bylaws. For example, to run for Chief, one has to be a Maryland Fire Officer II, certified pump and ladder truck operator, taken a 6hr recert class of fire management or tactics the previous year, and make 20% of the fire calls for the previous year. That is about 400 out of 2,000.

    Each officer has specific administrative duties.

    175 members (we have about 1 officer for every 10 members).

    I am not sure why people have been putting these ratios here, but I did the same. I think the amount of officers you think you need will be determined by your call load, the number of members, and the administrative tasks your department is responsible for. There is really no set number on how many officers you should or should not have. The only recommended practice is to have one officer for every five firefighters on the scene of a fire. This is the recommended span of control. In a volunteer setting you'll need to determine how many captains & lieuts you'll need to assure you have this span of control 24 hrs a day. It will also be determined by how many units your department is responsible for responding to a fire in your district. For example, if your department only responds 2 engines and truck for a house fire (the rest coming from mutual aid), that is different for a department that has to respond 4 engines, truck company, and an ambulance to the same type of call. In other words if the goal is to have an officer on every piece then the one department needs 3 officers and the other needs 5 or 6. Again, it should be the goal to have this on all calls, 24 hrs a day.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Default

    ~75 active volunteers
    Chief
    Deputy
    Assistant
    2 Captains
    3 Lieutenants

    The number is laid out in the by-laws.

    The by-laws also lay out the chain-of-command and delegation of the Chief's authority in his absence going Chief-Deputy-***'t-Senior Captain-Captain-1st Lt-2nd Lt-3rd Lt-Senior Active Firefighter.

    That's a sufficient number of officers for "staff" operations around the firehouse.

    It can be on the light side, especially if we have a fire call with a lot of firefighters but few officers -- I've seen us turn out 30+ firefighters but only 3 officers. Not a big deal, you just end up with experienced firefighters and former officers getting detailed to roles that a Lieutenant would normally handle. Adjusting on the fly is part of the volunteer/call fire service -- for I've also seen calls that were very short-handed early on where two white coats ended up running the Hurst Tool until more troops arrived.

  16. #16
    IACOJ Agitator Adze39's Avatar
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    Default

    Ok, we have defined in the by-laws: Chief, Asst Chief, and Deputy Chief.

    We just created the DC position and lowered the number of Capts positions to 2.

    The by-laws then state that we have a "sufficient amount" of Captains and LT's as the Chief sees fit.

    So we have:
    1 Chief
    1 Asst Chief
    1 Deputy Chief (until last week it was a Captain)
    2 Captains (one's considered the Station Capt)
    8 LT's (We are not going to fill 2 of the positions as they become available lowering the number down to 6).

    The LT's each have a function: Training Officer, SCBA Officer, EMS Officer, Equipment Officer, Communications Officer, Engineering Officer, Public Information Officer. That leaves one LT who doesn't have a function. That spot is commonly referred to as being a "Station LT" but he really has no duties outside of being an officer at an incident or drill.

    The Public Information Officer function was created earlier in the year. Before that, the Chief dealt with the Press. When they don't fill two spots (eventually) they will have one function not filled. I can see them possibly combining the PIO with Communications. Either that or combining PIO with the SCBA officer seeing how the SCBA Officer probably has the lightest duties.
    Last edited by Adze39; 11-20-2002 at 02:27 PM.
    IACOJ Agitator
    Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

  17. #17
    IACOJ Agitator Adze39's Avatar
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    Default

    Not my FD, but a local VFD:

    10 Capts and 18 Lt's.


    Ok Dal, here's your test: How fast can you figure out which Department I am referring to?
    IACOJ Agitator
    Fightin' Da Man Since '78!

  18. #18
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    Angry You never know

    Hey DRKBLRAM:

    You wrote that the officers in your dept. are not always the best for the job. That takes a lot of guts, because you never know who might be reading these forums.

    Do you think you can do better? If you do, maybe you should mention it to the Chief of your dept and see what he says.

    I have read your posts for quite a while. It seems like you have a lot to say. It also seems like you are quite experienced. By what you write, you sound like you would make a pretty good officer. Unless of course, you are simply a probie who likes to shoot his mouth off.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Default

    Geez Adze, give me a tough question.

    You might want to let the readers know that department also runs 5 stations, 5 Engine Cos., 2 Truck Cos., and 2 Rescue Cos., plus a couple ambulances, protecting 28,000+/- residents. 1000 fire/2500 ems calls annually..
    Last edited by Dalmatian90; 11-20-2002 at 07:22 PM.

  20. #20
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    Default

    Okay, here goes...

    In our department we have...

    1 Chief,
    3 Deputy Chiefs
    around 12 Regional Officers (roughly equivelant to a Commander)
    about 30 Operations Officers (roughly equivelant to a Battalion Chief)
    about 1200 Captains
    about 4900 Lieutenants

    Don't laugh, this is seriously what we actually have - but then we have 58,500 firefighters operating out of over 1,300 firestations, with over 2,100 apparatus, protecting 2.5 million people and an area of 58,665 sq. miles - it's all one caring, sharing, loving department - usually!
    Last edited by stillPSFB; 11-20-2002 at 10:32 PM.
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

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