1. #1
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    Default Let's see you crib this one!!!

    So, what do you do???

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    Lots (6?) of struts. And when done, could probably go as an advertisement for the strut company.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Good thing I wasn't on this one--I'm just sitting here, looking at the screen going, "Duh.....".

    I'd start witht the camper and crib between it and the road to help stabilize that hitch.

    I don't know much about struts, but could you safely use them on both sides of the SUV to hold it in that position?
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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    Cool!

    Looks bad, but really isn't.

    So... Wadda you know, where could it go, how do you stop it?

    You know that the camper frame is strong enough to support the load. It's the hitch that looks like it could go at any minute. If it goes, the truck will probably drop onto all 4 wheels with an enormous amount of bouncing and shaking, and will probably roll left.

    I'd do this:

    1) Staying out from under the truck, get a ratchet strap, chain, or come-along from a good section of the camper frame down to the truck frame. Try to find a spot on the frame to the right of center so the truck won't flop down on the right front tire if the hitch goes. This strap will also prevent the truck from rolling on that left front tire to the left off of any cribbing or struts. If you can, use 2 straps or chains.

    2) If you have struts or the raw materials to make them, put a pair at the back of the truck with the bases pulling toward each other. This will prevent the rear of the truck from dropping and prevent it from rolling right.

    If you don't have any struts, I'd put your lift jack or crib under the front right of the truck to prevent it ftom rolling right. Then crib as these guys did to vertically back up the strap at the hitch.

    3) If you do have struts, use them instead of the jack or cribbing at the front of the truck to prevent roll and hold the load up in case that left front wheel breaks.

    With that, you should be ok to start extrication. I'd guess a well trained crew could have this stable in about 8-10 minutes.

    The struts at the rear of the truck would look something like the picture below except that a single strap would pull the two bases toward each other. 4X4's could also be cut with a strap, rope, or come-along pulling the bases together.

    Tim

    Last edited by TimatRescue42; 11-21-2002 at 07:23 PM.
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    One ton(or lo-pro)Tow truck on the wheel side of the rollover.One line fron the top of the boom to the top of the frame,one line rigged off the low side of the tow truck to the bottom frame rail.Tighten cables.You now have a controllable "strut"that will give you freedom to make small changes to the vehicle while still giving you a stable platform to work with.Sorry,I don't yet have the ability to post a picture yet.T.C.

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    Hey PA Volunteer,

    Any chance of getting more (and/or larger) shots of this incident ??

    I'm trying to compile a Powerpoint Presentation on Awkward or Special Circumstance stabilization scenarios.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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    Question

    I'll second N2DFire's request. I could us some more photo's of this and if you have any other particulars on this incident.

    Thanks
    Eric J. Rickenbach
    FF/EMT/Chief Engineer/Instructor
    Sinking Spring, PA

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    I see a few options to this one, but the most obvious questions is, "Do we need to stabilise? Is there anyone in the car to warrant it?"

    If the answer is yes, then try the following:

    * Probies- get them to stand under it, on the high side with their hands over their heads and hold it up....

    * The struts or accrow props seem like a feasible option if you have access to them.

    * I've learnt great things from Grandmaster101- I like the idea of a tow truck holding it up, but another option to his one is to to use the flat tray tow truck. Back it up to the high side and use the tray to support it. It also gives you a good working platform for EMS and rescue

    Luke

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    Now that you've thought about it a little more, here are the rest of the pictures. In the end, it turned out to look a lot harder than it actually was. I wasn't actually there, so I can't talk first hand about it. But, as you can see, a few struts and a couple of box cribs did the job.

    LeadMPO51 and N2DFire - if you would like, send me a PM w/ your email addresses and I'll email you the full size versions. I have to shrink the pictures to post them here.

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    ... and the picture you've all been waiting for!!!

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    Well done!
    Luke

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    PA Volunteer, that was a really cool set of shots! Thanks for posting them. I had a small heart failure when I thought I saw a second vehicle stuck in behind the truck, but from the other views, it turned out to be some cribbing (I think).

    I like the way your shots showed the use of the stuts. We are looking at getting a set and photos like your just emphasize their versatility.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

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    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

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    Grasshopper,You have learned your lessons well.A flatbed would be another good choice using the hookup I outlined.Be watching your mailbox,good things come to those who wait.And just in time for the holidays!T.C.

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    Look at that final image. The vehicle is not stabilized were it not for the trailer hitch. The SUV would fall to the driver's side if the hitch failed. The struts would not be supporting the vehicle in that case. They would create an off-center load and actually push the vehicle.

    I agree with Luke. If everyone is out when you get there, it's a tow truck thing!
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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    Lightbulb Everyone out?

    It can be a tow truck "thing"with patients inside.By proper use of bed or boom you have control of the situation that can be matched by no domestically produced strut system that I know of.It requires a trained operator but for this scenerio can be deployed much faster and easier than struts and blocks.By using the functions built into the tow truck you can get stability,lift,tip,all in one system.Plus as Luke pointed out,a flatbed also offers rescuers a work platform.I encourage seasoned extrication techs to attend Big Rig Rescue,it will broaden your horizons.Many of the things I learned I had been doing for years but the program builds in a nice level of finesse.T.C.

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    I agree with the tow truck idea in most stabilization. They are a great resource if you can get them. In this case, a tilt-bed could position the bed to match the angle of the bottom of the truck, back into position under the truck, and strap the truck to the bed. Stablized. You could even cut the hitch and carefully bring the truck to level if you had to. Our problem is that tow trucks are almost never closer than 20 minutes away, and sometimes much longer. We do our best to be self-sufficient, particularly when we keep the knowledge that we in California WILL have another earthquake, and tow trucks won't be available.

    Ron, you are correct that the strut application is incorrect in this picture. If the hitch were to fail, the struts might actually push the truck over on the drivers side off the cribbing stack, and possibly onto it's roof. This truck needs 4 struts; 2 on the bottom as shown here, and 2 on the roof side opposing the others. If purchase points are questionable on the roof side two chains can be rigged from the opposing strut heads to create a pair of "belly bands" to cradle the truck. Straps should probably be positioned between opposing strut baseplates so that the opposing struts are forced in equally, causing the net force on the truck to be vertical instead of sideways. Another problem I see with these struts is that the straps are positioned too high on the truck, weakening their effective strength. Straps should be placed as close to horizontal from the baseplate as possible for maximum strength. It also appears that the right strut has been positioned backwards, with its strap connection point away from the car. This is causing the strap to come off the wrong side of the baseplate and go around the strut to the truck. I'm not sure how well this would hold up if the system were loaded and the strap tried to twist and pull up the base of the strut.

    No, they're not my struts...

    Tim
    www.rescue42.com

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    Ron Moore makes a very good point regarding his suggestion of additional support on the drivers side. I've set this scenario up to illustrate how I would stabilize assuming the camper hitch would be unreliable. In the pictures below you will notice I've placed a total of (4) Res-Q-Jack struts around the vehicle in addition to wood cribbing and restraint straps. Note that without the (3) stands being set as shown at the rear of the vehicle you would have a trapezoid shape which is not a stable shape, the 3rd stand at the lower undercarriage creates a more stable triangle to counteract the ability of the vehicle to pitch. In addition the vehicle is secured forward and rearward using pickets and straps. In lieu of placing an additional stand at the front drivers side, we've tied the undercarriage back to our truck. This keeps the amount of equipment minimal in the working area. The camper, engine, tree, gaurdrail, etc may serve as the pickets in the given situation. The cribbing and the tie back to the truck are redundant here, but I feel they are necessary backups. Struts are wonderful, but don't throw the cribbing out.

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    www.res-q-jack.com

    That was a fun project! This is the part of my job I like.

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    RESQJACK1 - I don't have struts available yet, but have been looking at the different manufacturers (including yours) and have a general question. In your second picture, it looks as though the jack is anchored in the gas fill, not a place I would ever think of sticking the end of a jack. Is that a common practice?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    RESQJACK1, that was a nice bit of work there! Well done re-creating that incident. I have to also echo Bones' question about the anchoring of the rear drivers side strut to the fuel fill neck.

    Just taking my car into account, and the amount of rust that is in and around that area, I am not too sure that it could be counted on as a stable place to put strain on. Is there another location near that you could use instead?
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

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    42,This is often times the grim reality.We are fortunate to have excellent resources available in less than 15 min.Many times I will respond during the winter months with the tow truck in case we need it.I know they aren't your struts.I'm quite familiar with your fine line of essential "accessories".As far as using the area around the filler neck it's as good as any point in the body strength wise.The way the strut is placed in the photo,nothing to damage there either.This is the first year I've used struts to any degree and I can see unlimited uses for them.But in the time it would take ME to set up two struts,I could have the vehicle stable,trailer unhitched,and roof off using a piece of towing equipment.You strut guys on the other hand would be just the opposite.As long as we all continue to bat these ideas around,our customers will be the winners.The thing about these scenerios isn't IF you will have one,but WHEN.T.C.

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