1. #1
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    Default walk in/walk around?

    our department is looking at a new hevey rescue and we are going round and round as to a walk in vs. a walk around. Right now we have a walk in and some of the members feal they are locked in the back and dont know what is going on till they get there. Also with the walk in it gives members a place go get out of the cold to warm up. We also have a custom cab on our 1st due pumper and a lot of the members like the fact thar everybody is together and can see the same things. It also alows for more useable storage space. Both options have a good point. I guess my question is what are some of the pros and cons of each that other people might have or opinions.
    Brian Jenkins
    Morrisville Fire Department N.Y.

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    WHAT DO YOU NEED YOUR RESCUE TO DO. MAKE A LIST OF EVERYTHING IT IS USED FOR. THEN DETERMINE HOW MANY OF THOSE REQUIRE AN ENCLOSED AREA. WE USE OUR RESCUE FOR FIREFIGHTER REHAB., IT HAS A SMALL COMMAND AREA WITH A RADIO AND SPEAKERS IN THE CEILING THE LENGTH OF THE BOX, EMS FOR PT CARE AND MASS CAS. EQUIPMENT. THE BENCH IS DESIGNED TO HOLD 2 BACKBOARDED PT'S. GREAT PLACE TO HIDE THE CASCADE BOTTLES TOO. WATER RESCU EQUIPMENT IS BACK THERE SO WE HAVE SOMEPLACE TO CHANGE. ROPE RESCUE EQUIPMENT IS BACK THERE TO KEEP IT A LITTLE CLEANER AND DRIER THAN THE OUTSIDE COMPARTMENTS. PLUS IT DOESNT GO THROUGH THE CONSTANT TEMPERATURE CHANGES DURING THE WINTER. ECT. ECT..
    SO THERE IS SOME FOOD FOR THOUGHT. IF I DIDNT HAVE SOME OF THESE MISSIONS TO DO. I WOULD HAVE A WALK-AROUND BECAUSE I COULD GAIN A TON OF COMPARTMENT SPACE.

  3. #3
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    My $.02

    If you get a walk in don't get a 4 door cab, because you'll be wasting space. If a shorter rig doesn't matter then use that space for more equipment. I think the new FDNY rescue rigs are a good example of this.

  4. #4
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    Always liked the walk-round better. There always seems to be a lot of vehicles to carry more people, but there never seems to be enough room for the equipment in compartments. I'd go for a walk-around with a cab capable of carrying however many people you plan on staffing it with. An 8 or 10 man raised-roof cab is plenty big enough to serve a a rehab area too. With everybody in the cab, you can communicate enroute to the call better (especially if you have a headset system). It also helps with the "everyone in a seat, with a seatbelt on" issue - walking around or getting dressed in the back of a moving vehicle is just a plain bad idea. Just my opinion - look at what you need for the types of calls you have, and base your decision on that. Stay safe!
    R.A. Ricciuti
    Mt. Lebanon Fire Department

  5. #5
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    My suggestion is to determine what you want the rescue for and go from there. If you're considering having a comand center on it, I would go with a walk in. If you're just looking for a big tool box on wheels, go with the walk around. You will lose alot of compartment space with the walk in.

    I would also recommend having venders bring demos to your station to look at. Another alternative is to look at the trucks at the various trade shows.

  6. #6
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    Cool

    One thing to think about. FDNY went back to small cabs with walkin boxes on their new rigs. They feel the shorter cabs make the rigs more manuverable and I don't believe anyone would question ow much they carry, it's all a question of organization!!

    Just my $0.02

  7. #7
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    You are absolutely right Bulldog, FDNY's rigs give you the best of both worlds. Unfortunately it's not feasilbe (either due to size or finances) for most departments to buy a truck that big. If that were the case, we all might have Orange County, CA USAR tiller trucks.

    The size of the box is something else to take into account. Look at what you are going to put on it. Then leave room to grow. I've seen too many times when a dept specs one out for what they have now. Then when they want that new piece of equiptment, there will be no room for it.

  8. #8
    iceman4442
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    We ordered a new heavy rescue this fall, and we went with a walk around to replace a walk-in.

    Our old truck had a four door cab, which is the staffing it's designed to carry, plus a walk-in rear compartment. The rear compartment was NOT useable while driving for personnel.

    The new truck will also have a four door cab, but with a slightly longer walk around unit. We have a lot of "dead" space inside the walk-in that isn't useable for anything, and have laid out much more equipment storage on the new truck.

    We don't use the rescue for rehab or a command center, we have another truck for that.

  9. #9
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    Like one of the posters said, figure out your needs and work from there.

    I tend to favor non-walk in rescues, in general I don't see a big need for them. But specialized uses (like divers), or in rural areas where you may have extended patient treatment times they can come in handy. My district has walkins to our north and south, so if we need a command post, one of them will be coming in.

    One compromise that's always stuck in my head (I saw a couple years back) is Manchester, CT -- they have a non-walk in equipped with a command desk in the back of the cab. Town of Manchester is almost entirely career, and IIRC this Rescue is just cross-staffed as needed, so not a need for a lot of seats in it.


    http://www.americanlafrance.com/NewDeliveries/Truck/43
    http://www.ci.manchester.ct.us/fire/RescueTruck.htm
    (They're missing most of the good inside shot's -- here's the best
    http://www.ci.manchester.ct.us/fire/images/ICDesk1.jpg

  10. #10
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    Wht not consider a combination walk in/walk around? We run with a combination rescue body and it has worked out well. We still have the interior space for a command area and inside storage, plus, we have the compartmentation for transverse compartments behind the command area. With an eight man crew cab and the fold down belted seats in the command area, we could respond with 14 members on the rig. Any builder can make this truck. KME built ours. Check out their web-site for photos. I hope this helps.

  11. #11
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    This is an age old question. I had the same question about 2 years ago. I ended up looking at the mission of the department and what the function of the vehicle was going to be in the next 7-10 years. The life of the vehicle. Also, you have to be able to leave room for those days in the future when you will need to add more "stuff" to the RS as times and missions change. What is the prime goal of the piece. Is it high angle rescue, tactical rescue, fire support, mass casualty or is it mainly vehicle extrications. Once you have identified the role the unit will play in the area you need to see where your people are in their training. Do they have a desire to advance to the next level or are they not comfortable with that. What future goals has the department set forth and how will this RS be able to assist you in achieving those goals.

    The advantage of a walk-around vs a walk-in is storage space. If you messure the space on an 18 foot box of each you will have more room on a walk-around. People space should be kept in the cab for safety reasons. Do a lot of research and find out what will work for your department before you begin to buy a new rescue.

    Lay out the vehicle so it is the most user freindly thing on the planet. Put all the heavy items on the bottom slef and make the top selves roll out and down. This is such an easier way to do things. It saves the backs of the young and the vertically challenged are able to get to the equipment also.

    Matt

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    Wow, Dal....is it just me or do I see...not one, not two, but three 500W flood lights on the side of that rig?

    Wouldn't you think they'd spec a single 1500 or 2000 watt light per side, have the same or more light and save a bundle?

    Even if they wanted redundancy they could have put in a pair of 1500-2000W lights per side, had loads more light and still saved a few bucks.

    Funny how spec committees think sometimes.

  13. #13
    dazed and confused
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    Originally posted by HFDCLanger
    Wow, Dal....is it just me or do I see...not one, not two, but three 500W flood lights on the side of that rig?

    If my guess is correct, the lights are FRC Focus Halogen lights... I could be wrong though. We went with the same lights on ours, 2 per side.

    These are probably at least 750W, and are of the newer "Focus" style that are nearly as bright as a traditional 1500W. They can go to atleast 1500W and still be half the height of the 1500W'ers.


    http://www.fireresearch.com/lt-focus7.htm

    I was leary of them at first. But when we used them, I had to say I found them to be more than adequate... ALMOST as bright as 1500W traditional style.


    "The FOCUS is a High Intensity Lamphead that does not waste precious light! It re-directs all the light from its halogen bulb toward the action area; Where you NEED the light. It's tough and compact (allowing you to fit them in places where you could not fit traditional lampheads). It's rear fins dissipate the heat quickly. Easy access to the bulb is provided for quick service. A variety of mounting choices are available, including flush and under aerial platform mounting. " FRC Propaganda
    Last edited by Resq14; 12-02-2002 at 12:15 AM.

  14. #14
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    Smile We're looking too.....

    Our 1992 Spartan 10 man cab W/ Marion 20 ft walk around box is wearing out and a replacement is under discussion at this time. (Only the fine quality of work by Spartan and Marion has got us this far) We are looking at another cab to match the current one, a tandem axle chassis, and a walk through box. Rescue 4 in Columbia, PA. is close to what we are looking for. (I think) Note that I said walk THROUGH. Everyone rides in the cabn but there is an interior walkway thru the box, exiting out the rear. Several things will NOT be negotiable, including Tandem Axles, Spartan Gladiator 10 man Cab., Biggest Detroit available, Jake Brake, 40K AMPS PTO Generator. among others. For a look at our current unit see www.gdvfd18.com Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

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    www.gdvfd18.com

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    You absolutely have to decide what you are going to carry and where. But don't forget about what is going to cart this tool-box on wheel around your district. You must FIRST determine your chassis needs. Commercial vs. custom? In commercial, yes you are saving money, but you are also giving-up hosrepower. I believe the largest available engine in either a Freighliner, International or Kenworth is around 330 - maybe 350 HP. That's it! This also depends on what model chassis you pick. Just remember, a custom chassis is built to be a firetruck. When a commercial chassis is being built, if your department does not buy it, then Joe's trucking will. You can get a Pierce Saber or Spartan Metro-Star chassis very reasonably priced. If you need to cut back, do so in the body, not the chassis.

    There are pros and cons to both styles of bodies. I happen to prefer a non walk-in vs. a walk-in model. It gives you more storage room in the body, especially for long items. It usually is more versatile for designing different lay-outs of the body. A walk-in cannot accomodate this. The one draw-back is that you MUST consider the use of roll-out/drop-down trays. The compartments on a non walk-in can be very deep. Don't put an adjustable shelf up high, or even an adjustable roll-out tray, as you will probably need underbody steps to get to everything. Rescue trucks are supposed to be designed to bring everything you might need to a scene. Don't waste the body space to carry personnel. Use the CUSTOM chassis for that, as that is what it is designed for.

    Just my .02 worth!!

    Stay Safe!!!
    GRC063

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    We have a Freightliner FL-112 on order with a 500 HP Cummins engine.

    We chose a 16 foot walk-around body. Take care in your specifications to make use of all available space. The last two rescues delivered into our county have many,many cubic feet of stranded, unusable space within the body.

    In a perfect world, we would have a custom cab, but the money simply wasn't available.

    It is very hard to give up $20,000 to $35,000 of body design or equipment just to get the custom cab. FYI - We are a combination department - this truck will roll out with only a driver 90% of the time.

  17. #17
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    I had written a much nicer (and longer) reply earlier today and then I gacked it somehow and had to start all over, so now you get the short version.
    Code:
        Chassis             Max HP         Front GVWR (Lbs)   Rear GVWR (Lbs)
                                                               Single Axle
    Freightliner FL80        325            Not Given            30,000
    Freightliner FL112       450            Not Given            30,000
    Sterling Acterra         330             12,000              23,000
    Sterling L-Line          600             22,000              19-52,000 *
    International 4400       330             14,000              26,000
    International 7400       330             20,000              26,000
    Kenworth T300            330             14,000              30,000
    Pierce Saber             350             16,000              31,000
    * - No breakdown of GVWR for Single & Tandem Axles
    Note that I attempted to include chassis from E-One, KME, HME, and Spartan for comparison as well, but the above information was not to be found on their web site (which is all I have to reference anymore).

    Stuart basicly beat me to the punch with what I'm trying to say anyway. Customs are nice if you can justify the need for the "special features" they provide, you plan to make a large number of runs with this truck, and/or you have the funds in your budget. Otherwise a large medium duty (Class 7) or a heavy duty (Class 8) commercial chassis will do you just as well.
    Take Care - Stay Safe - God Bless
    Stephen
    FF/Paramedic
    Instructor

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