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View Poll Results: Should OH require more training for Volunteers?

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  • Yes - FF1 within 1 year and FF2 within 2 years.

    37 49.33%
  • Yes - FF1 within 1 year.

    28 37.33%
  • No - 1A is good enough.

    10 13.33%
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  1. #21
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    Valley09,
    I've been a volunteer for over 20 years now. I started off before there was even a FF1-A course. It was the 36 hour "T&I" - Trade & Industrial course then. I thought I knew alot once I finished it - couldn't have been more wrong. Fortunately, the dept. I was on had lots of experienced personnel and we had twice a month mandatory training for fire and 1/month for EMS. It was those trainings and actual calls where I learned alot.

    However, that only happened because there were experienced folks to train us. If the whole department has only minimal training and minimal experience, there's no one to learn from.

    That's why education MUST continue. If you can get it from experienced members - that's good. But you're seriously wrong if you think that that's the only way to learn. The classes at Reynoldsburg and other schools have lots of hands on. If you'd been through my last FF1 class you would have pulled hose, raised, climbed, & lowered ladders, taken victims up & down stairs & ladders, and burned a house down.

    Bottom line - you need both the classes and the in-house training to be competent. Then, you need continual practice to stay proficient. This isn't anti-vollie at all. Vollies need scheduling flexibility and accessible training - NOT lower requirements.
    Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.


  2. #22
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    bump..........
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  3. #23
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    Default Rethinking my position on this subject

    As I stated in a thread almost as old as this one (that Josh has not bumped... yet):

    I'm a big advocate for higher certifications for volunteers (even though I haven't made it to I-B or I-C yet) and I started a thread on this very subject back when these state forums were first put up. Since then, I have changed my opinion slightly:

    The Michigan county just to the north of me requires ALL of their firefighters to complete FF II (240) within 2 years of being hired (paid) or joining (volunteers).

    That being said, my department (most of us only have 36 hours) can run circles around some of their departments on the fireground. And I don't mean to sound arrogant when I say that.

    I feel the reason is we have required weekly 3 hour drills that build on what we were taught in the 36 hour class and much of the info taught in FF II is learned that way.

    Yes, the 240 looks great on paper and inititally you will be much better trained than a 36 hour firefighter but you must have continuing education throughout your career.

    FF I or even II would be great for volunteers but I now feel that a continuing education requirement similar to EMS would be even better.
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  4. #24
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Well put, Moe....... Actually I have heard that sometime after we are done with the FF-II class (go figure) there is a strong possibility of the state awarding certifications to people based on their amount and type of training done in-house. This would have to be signed off by an official "school" (can't think of the word I'm looking for!!), but we would most likely go to Oregon to sign off for us......

    Sorry if the post is screwed up and isn't clear what I was trying to say.......

    Had a HUGE brain-fart......
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
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  5. #25
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    They would need to be signed off by certified instructors from a chartered training facility.

    Is that what you were trying to say?

    First I heard of this...
    FTM-PTB-DTRT

  6. #26
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Originally posted by WTFD10
    They would need to be signed off by certified instructors from a chartered training facility.

    Is that what you were trying to say?

    First I heard of this...
    Yeah....... That's it.....

    I think it's still in the discussion phases right now........ Not sure if/when it will actually take place......
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
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  7. #27
    Forum Member fireguy919's Avatar
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    36 is the BASIC class. on top of that you have to get hazmat,nims and what ever else the state or fed gov wants. most of these poeple work 40 hours plus. if we need more trainign then why does the state not require more ce than it does. look at all the state requires for ce. each dept should train there guys past that. sounds like alot of people are not wanting to take the rest of the time to train them according. each area has differant things that need more attention that another. it would do me no good to learn about aerial truck ops when the biggest building we have is 2 floors. by the time we need on would remember enough to safely work with it anyway. does the 240 or ff1 cover anything about farm equipment or silo's. we do not have any of these in our area either. thats why the 36 hour class is in place. step up to the plate and train your guys for what they need not something they dont.

  8. #28
    Forum Member firenresq77's Avatar
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    Originally posted by fireguy919
    36 is the BASIC class. on top of that you have to get hazmat,nims and what ever else the state or fed gov wants. most of these poeple work 40 hours plus. if we need more trainign then why does the state not require more ce than it does. look at all the state requires for ce. each dept should train there guys past that. sounds like alot of people are not wanting to take the rest of the time to train them according. each area has differant things that need more attention that another. it would do me no good to learn about aerial truck ops when the biggest building we have is 2 floors. by the time we need on would remember enough to safely work with it anyway. does the 240 or ff1 cover anything about farm equipment or silo's. we do not have any of these in our area either. thats why the 36 hour class is in place. step up to the plate and train your guys for what they need not something they dont.
    First off, Yes, the Volunteer FF (36 hour) is just the basics required by the State of OH. To my knowledge, there are no FF CE's required by the state at this time. Everyone should be held to a minimum standard of training, which is what the 36 hr is. It is just the basics that EVERYONE should know, regardless of the area you are in. If you need additional training in certain areas, like farm machinery and silo emergencies, it should be provided by your FD or arranged by them.
    The comments made by me are my opinions only. They DO NOT reflect the opinions of my employer(s). If you have an issue with something I may say, take it up with me, either by posting in the forums, emailing me through my profile, or PMing me through my profile.
    We are all adults so there is no need to act like a child........
    IACOJ

  9. #29
    Forum Member fireguy919's Avatar
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    FIRENRESQ77 i agree with what your saaying and my department does cover things in our area. ce's should be looked in to i think. just all in how the state would do it.

  10. #30
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    bump..............
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber mkamann's Avatar
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    What i have heard that come Jan 1 the state is mandating ce's for FF's. I do not know all the details, but I feel that this is a good thing. I personally do not like the 36 cert, but for dept's that are limited on funds than this is a good thing. With training than you can make anyone good at the job. It doesn't matter where you work or how long you have been a FF you still go to training to better yourself and learn new things. You maybe a full time ff, but you don't know it all because you fight fire every shift. The certification you have doesn't make you better than the other guy or gal. I have heard of full time ff's that are in it for the money and have no love for the job. They get on scenes and do as little as they can or can't even do some of the tasks. There are also full time FD's that use Vol. FD's as mutual aid to either help fight fire or cover their district. We are hear to fight fire, save lives and property, help those in distress, and make the community safer. Every ff should be trying to get as much training as he/she can possibly get to make themself better. If you are a 36 than go to school and get your ff1 and than get your ff2. If it take you 10 years so be it, but you are trying to better yourself and your fd.

  12. #32
    MembersZone Subscriber Firedan38's Avatar
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    You have some good points....however what do you do about the members who have the attitude that and I'm quoting here "I dont need any more training...36 hours is enough for me". theindividual that stated that was the Volunteer Safety captain of a Vollie/Part time Department in Marion county, I have since moved on so I dont know if he is even still there or affiliated....we tried to change his attitude but itwas like talking to a wall...and the Fire Chief was no better....he did not even show up to "training" nights.

    I agree that CE are the way to go...I also think that 36 should be a starting point....and that you shpould be mandated to certify as FF1 after the first year and after 3 years be FF2, Florida soes the CE for FF's but Im not sure how it is done. Im still struggling with the EMS crap down here!!!! I wish all Ohio FF's well and good luck!!!!
    Stay Safe
    Any commander who fails to exceed his authority is not of much use to his subordinates. - Arleigh Burke

  13. #33
    MembersZone Subscriber dday05's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Firedan38]You have some good points....however what do you do about the members who have the attitude that and I'm quoting here "I dont need any more training...36 hours is enough for me". theindividual that stated that was the Volunteer Safety captain of a Vollie/Part time Department in Marion county, I have since moved on so I dont know if he is even still there or affiliated....we tried to change his attitude but itwas like talking to a wall...and the Fire Chief was no better....he did not even show up to "training" nights.

    I'd have a serious talk with that member,a attitude like that as far as I'm concerned is'nt welcomed in the fire service and this kind of comment came from a safety capt? WTF is he/she thinking,either get your head out of your *** or show he/she the door.The membership of the dept looks up to the officers and what would that tell a new recruit? That could turn a good ff into a bad ff with that kind of attitude.This is all I will say for the time being.BE SAFE!!!!

  14. #34
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    There has been a lot of good points made here, but as for now the state only requires 36 hours to make you ready to fight fire. Let's be serious, there is no way anyone could possibly learn enough about the world of old man fire in a week long class with no live fire training. The requirements from the state are only minimums, and should be looked upon by everyone in the fire service as just that. I agree the state should increase the hours of training for basic firefighters, and they should have some sort of ce program also because lets face it , if you don't use your skills you lose them. The most important part of this business is the safety of ourselves and the citizens we protect. The best way to accomplish this is through training. Wether mandated by the state or not, we should all be taking the initiative to better ourselves.

  15. #35
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Default Sup bro .........good talking to you yestreday.

    Dear Jethro,
    While I agree with your posts, there is one thing that EVERYONE needs to know. For the Vol FF 36 hour cert, 36 hours is the MAXIMUM you can teach per the State of Ohio, not an hour more. However, after that .............the other classes are just that the minimums.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  16. #36
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weruj1
    Dear Jethro,
    While I agree with your posts, there is one thing that EVERYONE needs to know. For the Vol FF 36 hour cert, 36 hours is the MAXIMUM you can teach per the State of Ohio, not an hour more. However, after that .............the other classes are just that the minimums.

    Now I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but why would you set a MAXIMUM number of hours to be trained? Maybe that's just me, but I think that is stupid. That kind of hinders people or might shun them away from getting more training because.."the state says that I can only have 36 hours of class"
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  17. #37
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    seems mighty odd huh ? I think that winds of change are coming, CE's arent a bad thing for the most part.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  18. #38
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    Default Live fire training...

    Weruj1,

    I also once heard that you must have "card-in-hand" to participate in a live burn. Is this true? Some "Vol. FF" classes have been run in our area where the live burn is scheduled a few weeks after the completion of the class because of this. With many state exams being graded on the spot and temporary cert. papers being issued that day, I suppose it opens the door to catch a fire without ever having the chance to operate a line in "realistic" conditions, and have the all-important fire behavior "campfire talk" in the burn room.

    Obviously I'm not advocating live-fire before you are in training, but it seems that toward the end of class, BEFORE you're let loose in the real world, would be the time. Even with close supervision from a good officer, new firefighters should feel a little heat in a controlled envirionment before potentially needing to feel it for real.

    Any clarification or thoughts??

    On a side note, I've worked as a volunteer, part-time, and full-time firefighter in Ohio. I've seen both sides of the ballgame. I understand very well the idea of time constraints on volunteers, and all that stuff. HOWEVER, I absolutely agree with those who say that the 36 hour cert. should be a thing of the past. It's quite simply not enough to be safe interior firefighters. I understand that many out there get their 36 hr. and then train all the time and get very competent. But those first few months/years after you get your "1-A" and before you get enough additonal training to get "comfortable and competent" could prove to be a deadly time.

    And the whole CE thing for FFs required by the state.... GREAT idea.

    Just my personal opinion. Stay safe.

    Brad French
    Dayton Fire Dept.

  19. #39
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    I took the old T&I 36 hour course in 1977. The first thing the instructor told us was that he was going way beyond those 36 hours. He did 6 hour Saturdays and 4 hour Sundays for 3 months. I didn't learn anything about sprinkler systems, haz-mat, technical rescue or high-rise tactics. I WAS taught hours and hours of hose lines, forcible entry, ladders, mask confidence, search, ventilation, ropes, salvage and overhaul and more basic techniques while using three acquired structures. Three years later, our department did it again. In close to 30 years in the service and being through F/F I, II, and II in Virginia, MFRI in Maryland ,and our rookie school, I never replicated that initial impression and just good old fashioned bread and butter fire instruction with actual fire on a regular basis. Maybe it is too short of a course for today's new firefighter but there are other options.

  20. #40
    MembersZone Subscriber mkamann's Avatar
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    You are right in that you need your 36 cert before you can see live fire. This is a big reason why they need to get rid of the 36. In my Dept we dont let newbee's run until they get more training and experience. If they do get to go on a call there are select FF's and Officers that they can go with. If one of those persons isn't there than they stay behind. The bottom line is TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING.

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