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  1. #1
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    Question Should POV's be considered emergency vehicles

    (THESE VIEWS ARE JUST THAT; VIEWS NO NEED ON BEING REPRIMANDED)I like the idea kentucky has. Why is it that we have to be non emergency vehicles when we are trying to save a persons life. Only after taking 3-6 minutes to get to the station can we go wirly giging down the streat in a big red truck. Every minute counts whether it be a ems call of a serius nature or a possible house fire. If your respoinding to the station as a firefighter or anything emergency related where you are not a paid person then you should not have to sit at red lights and wait while the person is having a heart attack or somthing. What if it was your relative. Wouldnt you want the fastest reponse.


  2. #2
    Forum Member EMTfarmer's Avatar
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    Default No!

    The amount of abuse this sort of rule would suffer would never justify the seconds saved. It would be hard to make me believe it would be minutes in most cases. (How far and how fast would you need to drive to make up one minute of time? One for the math wizards!) Not to mention the potential for injury and loss of life due to these abuses.

  3. #3
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Default

    If implemented properly, I see no big problems. Leave it up to individual Chiefs as to the right to run a light. Follow the laws in place as to EVOC. Look at this months mag for the laws.
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  4. #4
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    Talking Kentucky Emergency light Law

    The Kentucky law says that the Chief of the department has to issue you a card to run lights and siren and if stopped you must show this to a police officer. Any vehicle in kentucky legaly running lights fall under the same law if you are responding in a POV you must slow at all intersections to make sure it is clear then proceed with due regard. The same is true with how fast you can run normaly it is 10 to 15 miles over the posted as long as road conditions are good. And all drivers must yield the right of way to all emergecy vehicles yes even POV's. This law has worked here for many years and I don't for see it changing. There has not been many POPV.s across the State involved in MVA's while responding. If someone abuses theability and is reported the card is taken away and the chief makes sure all lights and sirens are taken off their vehicle. At least where I live its the same in most of the State.


    Lt.Firebug
    Last edited by Firebug75; 12-01-2002 at 10:20 AM.
    South Hopkins Fire Department
    Mortons Gap, Kentucky
    firebug75@mchsi.com

  5. #5
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    Default

    For you to save one minute, you would have to drive 1 mile at 60 miles per hour over the speed limit. It is possible however, to save one minute when you pull up to a stop light, and you will be the first car to NOT make it through. If you have your lights on, and by some stroke of luck the planets have aligned, pigs are flying through the intersections as we speak, and everybody in front pulls over, you pull up to the light, then WAIT because it is still red. However, when the light turns green, you will be able to go.
    Any statements I have made are my statements, and my statements alone.

  6. #6
    HNFC FF/President mdoddsjffhnfc's Avatar
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    Default

    This was taken from my states (New Jersey) online Drivers Manual for 2001:

    "Pull over and stop for emergency vehicles

    Police cars, fire trucks and ambulances have sirens and red lights. Private vehicles operated by volunteer fire and rescue squad members (with emergency vehicle identification) responding to an emergency call use blue lights. You must yield to emergency vehicles when you hear a siren or see a flashing red or blue light..."

    If it states about POVs in the state drivers manual responding to calls. Then they should be considered Emergency Vehicles.
    Firefighter, Volunteering since Oct 2001

    CCFA 05-04, best overall class for 2005
    "GOOD GAME!"

  7. #7
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    Default

    I think we need to start a ad campaign that gets people to recognise that of they see a blue light coming up behind them they are to if possible give them the right of way. The biggest problem is that a lot of people dont know what the blue light means so they dont care. If they would pull over and let us by it would be ok. Running red lights i have no opinion. I think no for that one but public awareness that we are trying to save a light when we have our light on would help the volies a ton. To run a blue light we should have to be mandated to take evoc first which has helped me a ton since I have taken it.

  8. #8
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Default

    If someone can not figure out that a flashing blue light in the windshield / roof / grill / etc of a vehicle mean "emergency" in some which way shape or form, then no ad campaign is going to help them.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  9. #9
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    Default

    You would think after the many years we have used blue lights and pulled into the firehouse with them on they would get the idea. I guess they just need a Q siren plus a 200watt siren behind to get them moving. What if it was their house burning you would see them move then.

  10. #10
    Forum Member nmfire's Avatar
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    Default

    Ok, I can't not say this any longer. Tshayes, please do not take this as an insult, bash, reprimand, or in any other way offensive. It is my observation and I would be willing to bet it is the observation of many seasoned (or at least more experienced) responders here that actually drive emergency vehicles and have been doing it a lot longer than you have been playing with a dash light.

    You are a Junior with a blue light who seems to think he knows how it is and how it should be when it comes to responding. Based on this observation and the statements you have made, I am going to offer you a suggestion. Start actually driving real fire trucks that have a siren or two before you start going on about the way it should be. You seem to think that a siren in everyone's personal vehicle is the end-all solution to people not pulling over for flashing lights. When you become a real firefighter and start driving real emergency vehicles you will realize that is the farthest from the truth as possible. Believe me, the same idiots that don't pull over for your personal-vehicle-gone-discotech will not pull over for your Q2B, 200 watt Unitrol and dual grover airhorns.
    Even the burger-flippers at McDonald's probably have some McWackers.

  11. #11
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    Default

    i think its ok to if your the chief of the department or the deputy chief. fire fighters who dont drive there own car to the scean dont need to have all that stuff of there cars.
    never forget 343 FDNY
    in memory of 40 ENGINE/35 TRUCK
    normal people spend their life's avoiding intense situations.....a fireman's life is an intence situation.

  12. #12
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Default

    In the volunteer fire service, there are, generally, three types of responders:
    1. Those who know what they are doing, and are able to actively, and directly participate in emergency operations which could save life and/or property.
    2. Those who are limited to the jobs they can perform on the fire scene (for whatever reason). These persons jobs may be important, but they do not constitute the need for emergency action.
    3. Those who are completely useless on the fire scene, except for maybe keeping the bumper of the engine warm.

    Assuming the above is correct, how do you formulate an arbitrary, objective method to determine which is which? It could be argued that persons who fit into the first category above should be allowed to have their POV's classified as emergency vehicles. However, how do you justify the other two classes as emergency vehicles? Any system which would try to separate the three classes of responders, and deal with them appropriately, would be completely subjective, and virtually impossible to regulate.

    All the volunteer fire service would need is for the #3 type of volunteer to wreck his "emergency" POV on the way to an automatic alarm.

    Stay Safe

  13. #13
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    Default NO

    It is a good idea but the facts are there are always that 5% of the people that would do something stupid or abuse the power of having it. where i am there was a Firefighter that got his job taken away and charged becuase he pulled over a car becuase they were speeding in his own car, or that adrenaline would start pumping and whoops there goes a stop sign or people would be pushing the speed a little to much and the only thing it takes is one screw up and its all gone. plus most of you should know by now that half the time people don't pull over for fire engines, ambulances, or police squads which have about 100 times more lights than you POV would have.

  14. #14
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    Default

    Righto, here's an idea. Go take EVOC, FF1 and FF2, become a licensed paramedic, rise up a few ranks in the department, turn 18, get a few years of real ES work under your belt, THEN go off and talk about turning POVs into emergency vehicles. If I'm correct, you are an explorer/junior/cadet, right? Don't take this as a senior firefighter yelling at you, cause I'm a junior too. Right now, neither you or I has a whole heck of a lot of training and there isn't much we can do at a scene. I'm against POVs running anything more than a blue light. Why? Cause there's that magical 10% who will go and screw up and give all volunteers a bad rap. Even worse if it's a junior who goes and goofs up. You want to be trusted/respected/given a chance to prove yourself? It ain't gonna happen if you, or any kid with sirens and red lights, goes and kills someone while trying to respond to a call.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber Engine58's Avatar
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    Ok..My opinion NO! why? Like mentioned before no matter what you do..how hard you try..no matter what rules you make for these "certain people" theres always gonna be a small amount of those "certain people" to screw things up. Your hearts in the right place..sure...I wanna get to emergencies faster to..and if it was my family I'd want them to get there as fast as possible. I've been in this situation many times...and being on the first aid & fire dept in my town. I know that alot of the people dont use blue lights or whatever in there cars...and people in town have no yet to complain about response times..we still manage to get an ambulance out in under 5 minutes..etc..I knwo what your gona say "WELL YOU GUYS COULD GET OUT FASTER IF YOU RAN LIGHTS" Sure..we could...98% of the time theres light traffic flow on the roads in my town which dont require us going mach 90 to a Fire Alarm activation or a granny fall down go boom call.. I have a feeling this threads gonna be shut down within a week if its gonna go the way i've seen other threads like this go..now im no seasoned firefighter but I've been around for a while and I just turned 18 and moved up to probie last week..im not gonna deny it..I wanted to get to the building as fast as possible when i first joined..but now..I've learned..it dont matter how fast you get to the building...you crash your not help which means other people gotta help you instead of hte original emergency..take it easy..take your time...BE PROFESSIONAL ABOUT IT
    Andrew
    Firefighter/EMT
    New Jersey

  16. #16
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    Default

    You are absolutley right about a few people would ruin it for all. It sounds like youre department has a pretty good crew to be getting out that fast. I j9ust think that we need to relook at our blue light laws. It wasnt untill a little while ago that NY got rid opf the rediculous candlepower rule on blue lights. Keep it modern and have it so it will best suit the people using it not politicians. I hope we keep the post alive. Good comments and talk is what is needed.

  17. #17
    Member smatt2003's Avatar
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    no

    this should only apply if you are on a volunteer fire department
    because then the privlage could be abused wildly.
    FF. EMT-B M. Hesek
    Northborough Fire Dept
    Northborough MA

    NEVER FORGET DECEMBER 3rd '99

  18. #18
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    There are people who abuse the Blue lights now and get punished accordingly. You will have the same problems no matter what. So why not enable the good eggs to respond more efficiently.
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  19. #19
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    There are people who abuse the Blue lights now and get punished accordingly. You will have the same problems no matter what. So why not enable the good eggs to respond more efficiently.
    --------------------------------
    I will assume that the last statement was meant to be a question. The answer is that the bad "eggs" may do more damage than the small amount of good that blue lights cause. This damage can include death to the very citizens that you are trying to protect better with your blue lights.
    If your firefighters are very responsible, and there is a limit to the bad "eggs", as well as the amount of "bad" in the eggs. ie) They turn their lights on for automatic alarms, however drive carefully and saely, obey all traffic laws, and use extreme caution while getting to the station. ...
    Any statements I have made are my statements, and my statements alone.

  20. #20
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    Default

    You are abdolutley right. This is how people should be thinking. Now of the politicians would feel this way.

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