Hi all, I am wondering if any of you would be good enough to state your piece on Spartan and or Pierce chassis. Marion and or Custom Fire Apparatus bodies. The info gathered here will be used in purchasing discussion. I do not need bashing posts just what everyones experience is with these named manufacturers and there product. I know everyones has there favorites or say good things because they are using or are forced into using a particular piece of apparatus. I just need some good facts to feel that any present or future decision made are of facts not emotions. I guess my concrn would be, a chassis being built then moving on to put anothers boby on the chassis. I am sure it is a good bet the old runaround will come inti play when issues should arrise. The experiece I have had so far is.....They want to sell you on the old this chassis is good for a pumper 14000 lbs axel wt.And look at the cost relatively cheap. Now when you figure all the other stuff you will need on this look at the price goes up until it is realized th chassis is underrated for the application. Once again money is the theam of the conversation. I have done a great deal of reasearch on pierce, manufacture from the ground up. Even when problems arrise ulike other builders who initiaally try and pass the buck in the begining. It seems to me that going to a single source manufacturer where the whole truck is covere no matter who made the components, these issues are covered as Pirce goes. Feedback has been good but would like to see alot more replies to the post
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12-10-2002, 03:12 AM #1
- Join Date
- Nov 2001
Spartan,Pierce chassis. Marion,Custom fire apparatus bodies
Last edited by Steamguy; 12-11-2002 at 02:41 AM.
12-10-2002, 02:03 PM #2
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
- Cypress, TX
Your best bet will be to figure out seating requirements, engine size, raised roof heights, etc, etc, and then go see who has what available. As well as actually sitting in the units in each of the seats. Go to depts that have these trucks and see how they set them up and what they wish they would have done differently. Too often an idea looks good on paper, but doesn't quite work out the way it was thought in real life.
Personal experience part: We have 2 Quality's on Spartan chassis', bought in '99. The wear and tear is showing already in the form of mechanical problems, wiring, suspension, tires, paint, everything. In it's defense, other than a fuse that keeps popping on the electric LDH discharge, they both have pumped water flawlessly. And the speculation on the fuse is that since no one ever operates the valve, it gets stuck and the motor isn't strong enough, so it pops the fuse. One other quirk, is that the compartment door sensors aren't very sturdy. Many a time we've run around the truck opening and shutting every door, only to end up ignoring the flashing red light because all of the doors were closed.
We have just ordered a Pierce Dash Heavy Rescue, and a Pierce Lance pumper. Both with the TAK-4 suspension and Command Zone diagnostics. The TAK-4 is amazing, making a smooth ride out of not so smooth Houston roads. The Command Zone is very cool too. It will cut down on routine maintenance, and for that compartment door problem we're having, it shows a diagram of the truck and which door is open.
Pierce supposedly costs more than most everyone else. The new Lance is the longest cab available, and we put CAFS ($20G option), A(30gal) & B (50gal) foam tanks, 500HP Detriot, and a whole host of other toys on it. Yet, just to the south of us, Sugar Land TX FD, just bought 2 Qualitys, with no CAFS, and missing a bunch of other stuff, yet the truck was only $9G's less. I don't know how some of the other manufacturers lined up on the pumper, I wasn't directly involved in that one. But as far as Customer Service goes, Pierce was only one of two that would talk to us about the rescue truck. We were awarded a FireACT Grant for that, and when it looked like we were getting close to being granted the award, I sent the spec that we based the grant on to several manufacturers. Quality didn't have the software upgrades to price out one, which was understandable since they had just announced the Homeland Series rescue line. But they were at least willing to work with us. KME and E-One said good luck, call us back when you have the money. I don't think they were too confident on our chances of getting the money. But on the outside chance that we did get the $312K, wouldn't any saleperson worth their salt at least be courteous and make the attempt? Pierce and American LaFrance, were the only two that were willing work with us.
My view is that trucks are built with pretty much the same parts (Detroit, Waterous, Hale, etc), so having spent some time in sales before, customer service is where the difference is. You can draw your own conclusions from my experience. But your reps may not be as customer un-friendly as the ones I talked to were, so at least give them a shot anyway.
General Advice: Spec what you definitely need, then add what you will need 10 years down the road for future growth, and send that out to the manufacturers. See who is willing to work with you, and then go see the trucks. No one ever buys a car without seeing one and test driving one, but lots of departments never even go look at a truck in person, they just use the sales brochures. Visit as many as you can, time and money permitting. You're going to have the thing for many moons, so it might as well be what you want it to be.
BrianBrian P. Vickers
Emergency Services Consulting
Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division
12-10-2002, 04:06 PM #3
Can only speak from experience on Marion. We have a '94 Marion 14' walk-in Rescue on an International chassis. The Rescue goes on virtually every call. Paint's been pretty good, had to have some touch ups 2 years ago on the back: rust forming where dissimilar metals touched. Also some issues with scene light lens mysteriously popping off for no apparent reason: they popped off, were not knocked off by tree limbs, etc. Marion was at a loss to explain, we could only figure some odd flexing of the box or expansion/contraction was going on with the box. Seems to have calmed down in the last few months for no apparent reason.
Their compartment door spring/stop mechanism on this truck is junk, springs and nuts loosening and disappearing, not sure if they have a new mechanism on the new trucks. We've fixed/replaced almost every door stop mechanism over the years. Only other Marion customers I know personally is a neighboring Company who just got back a pumper that had to be completely repainted the quality was so bad. Once they got that back they sent another out to also be repainted due to poor quality. They have 3 Marion pumpers on HME chassis. The two newest needed the paint jobs. In fairness, our 1999 ALF chassis had a wonderful orange peel paint job on the back of the cab that needed to be redone. Watch the paint!
Marion was pretty good to work with on the design and what we wanted. They eventually resolved a funky problem getting the motor to the proper rpm's to drive the PTO generator when we first took delivery. I know of worse manufacturers you can deal with than Marion.
12-11-2002, 10:44 AM #4
- Join Date
- Feb 1999
- River Edge, NJ, USA
I agree with BC79er and strongly recommend SINGLE SOURCE. There can be no finger pointing when electrical problems arise. Marion Body makes the cabs for Spartan. They are shipped to Spartan in raw form, then painted and completed. Pierce cabs are made by Pierce, at their facility. The Lance 10 man, with a 27" extension onto the crew cab, is the largest 10 person on the market.
As for Marion Body, my department runs a '95 18' walk-in on a Freightliner FL-80. This unit does approx. 1,900 - 2,000 calls per year. We have had zero problems with paint, door latches/closures etc.. I recommend not painting your HRT compartment, as we did, and later learned that the hydraulic fluid will do a number on the compartment paint finish. As for doors & closures, we have a Hurst "O" tool cutter mounted on one door and three (3) Hurst Rams on the other door. The only thing that has ever broken, was the mount for the "O" tool. The closures and latches are original. The Marion has truly been great to us. Any problems, have been with the chassis. Our next rescue, (in 2 years), will be on a custom chassis. No more commercial jobs for us.GRC063
12-11-2002, 10:59 AM #5
- Join Date
- Sep 2000
- Blacksburg, VA USA
You are getting good advice here. Look at and ask questions
about them all. It is best to talk to the users and not
the sales team. Personally my department has purchased
Pierce the last 15 years. They have been excellent pieces.
Manufacturers us a lot of the same componants, but how
they are put together makes a big difference. Also very
important is service after the sale. One important aspect
of any purchase is service and support both from the service
center and factory. I have never had any problems getting
parts or service from my rep. here in VA. Good luck in your
12-11-2002, 01:36 PM #6
- Join Date
- Mar 2000
- M A F D
Custom / single manufacture is the only way our department has gone for 20 years now.
No more finger pointing when something breaks and covered by warranties
We used to buy commercial chassis and have someone build the fire body. We ran into problems with the component manufacturers blaming each other. We ended up paying for all of the repairs that should have been covered under warranties.
We just took delivery of our second Pierce; our department is truly satisfied by their products.
We bought a DASH 2000 Engine / Rescue n í99 and this time we bought an Enforcer Rescue / Engine same cab and everything just smaller frame rails and engine options.
The Dash 2000 has 13-inch frame rails as a standard this chassis is used a lot for aerials and large tankers it is also accepts the Detroit Series 60 500 hp engine. The Enforcerís largest engine is the Cummins 400 HP.
The problems with the DASH have been the doors on the crew-cab cracked at the bar that separates the roll up window from the fixed glass above it. Pierce paid to have it fixed locally; if it breaks again we have been promised new doors.
The engine would shut off sometimes when the pumper was being backed up, a bad chip was the culprit and 2 days later and new on was installed and others sent out to upgrade the other computers that had that chip.
Check whith departments in your area, find someone who as a 3 or 4 year old unit and see if they are still satisfied with it. That is one of the things our committee did when we started our search.
BC79er's 1st paragraph and last papagraph were almost verbatium of what I was told in '99 by retired jake I have a the utmost regard for. Write the specification for your area,because you are one that is going use it for a long time.
Being from Wisconsin you could arrange a plant tour with the Local Pierce dealer.
We took the tour in 1999. I was impressed with the whole company. Our group saw the process start with the frame rails, and everything coming together to end up being a finished fire engine.
What really stuck with me was the people, those folks are proud of the work they do. I didnít meet anyone who did seem to enjoy his or her part in the manufacture of a good product.
12-17-2002, 02:42 AM #7
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- Green Bay WI USA
Thanks all who replied. I had to change the user name I use. Fron what I have read most of you like Pierce apparatus the best. Which is what we were aiming for anyway. We just wanted to be sure our discussions were based on some fact about the other said manufacturers. Our meeting is coming up soon so please if there are any more please post. We need to justify the cost difference
12-17-2002, 08:49 AM #8
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
- Cypress, TX
Plug safety and reliability as the cost difference. Safety: TAK-4 independent front suspension. It stops the truck going 60mph in 200' instead of 260'. That's the difference in stopping in time, or plowing through 7-8 cars. Not that anyone is a bad driver. I know it won't really be needed because no EVER pulls out in front of a fire truck responding hot (cough, cough).
Reliability. I haven't heard anyone complain about the same problem twice on a Pierce yet. And look at how much used Pierces go for on the open market. They don't lose their value because they're built solid and made to last.
And don't forget my anecdote about Sugar Land. Their new Quality engine doesn't have as many features as the Pierce we just spec'd, and ours only cost $9G's less. It may not cost as much as you think compared to everyone else.
One last piece, spec CAFS. It's a $20G option, but I know in Texas the legislature was contemplating a law that reduced homeowner's insurance for citizens in areas where the fire depts had CAFS. I don't know if it passed or not, I haven't kept up with it. Lower homeowner's insurance rates is a big plus. That's just the financial reasoning behind it. The real reason is the knockdown power. I haven't played with it yet myself but everyone that has that I've talked to can't say enough great things about it. The safety that it will afford the interior crews is worth more than any amount of money in the world.
Stay safe, and Happy Holidays to all.
12-17-2002, 07:10 PM #9
- Join Date
- Dec 2002
- East Coast
The advice you have gotten is pretty solid except the comment on the independent suspension. Brake caliper size stops the truck not the suspension. Pierce developed this option through their military business in Osh Kosh. As far as IS vs. tapered leaf/semi-eliptical, the difference is negligible regarding ride quality in my experience.
As far as sole sourcing, you can do it with Spartan. They own Quality and Luvern now and have folded them together under a new banner called Crimson Fire (check out their website).
Regarding rescues, it's tough to beat a Saulsbury on an E-One chassis. It seems to have worked well with FDNY. I'm not advocating following the FDNY lead, but I definetely would explore the Saulsbury option. With E-One owning Salusbury, I'm almost sure it would be considered a sole source apparatus (check me on that).
12-18-2002, 12:00 AM #10
- Join Date
- Feb 2002
- Cypress, TX
I realize caliper are what stops a truck, but when you see one with the TAK4 stop 2 trucks lengths faster than one without it, and that's the only difference in the trucks, you have to think there is something to it. The ride doesn't even compare to the two Quality's or the KME. Like a Caddy. Rides better than my pickup.
Saulsbury does make a nice rescue truck. I'm not too kean about E-One chassis though. Heard to many horror stories about recurring mechanical problems. Been in some new ones, and same as I said before, there isn't too much of a difference in the crew areas of the cab in any truck.
All in all, no matter who's name is on the front of it you need to make sure you do some things so you don't regret down the road.
Get CAFS with plenty of foam tank capacity. Everyone has fuel trucks and whatnot rolling around. In addition to the knockdown and exposure power. More than 30 gallons of Class B is becoming the norm.
Get enough storage space. Lay out everything that you think you will stick on the truck and figure out how much space and what shelving you'll need. Think of what you might add in the future and leave some room for it. Don't make just enough so everything is crammed in.
Speedlays. Easier to deploy and repack with limited manpower.
Get the big engine. You might not be able to upgrade later, so drive around in some similar trucks and see how the low end pickup is. Top speed is irrelavent. 0-25 is where it counts. Figure out what HP will work and make the next step up.
Get a big enough generator. PTO, that is. The Onan 30kW PTO we spec'd on the new rescue was half the price of the 20kW Harrison and AMPS. Onan is THE generator company. Don't even think about gas or diesel. Too many maintenance issues.
Put on enough scene lights. For obvious safety reasons, turning night into day is a good thing on a scene.
I'm sure you thought of most if not all of it already, but just having gone through building 2 trucks, it's all fresh in my mind.
Happy holidays and stay safe.
12-22-2002, 10:51 PM #11
- Join Date
- Apr 2002
Take a look at Seagrave
Seagrave is also a company you should take a look at they too are a single sorce manufacturer and also made in Wisconsin in Clintonville Give them a look they make a quality truck.. [URL=http://www.seagrave.com]Seagrave Fire Apparatus
12-26-2002, 02:59 PM #12
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
Sorry, I am new at this. Go to the new Chassis thread for the info. sorry
12-26-2002, 09:17 PM #13
- Join Date
- Nov 1999
As for Spartan and Pierce, I have opinions on both. Gee what a shock. My Volunteer department, just East of BC79er, in Fort Bend County has two (2) 1996 Spartan/Quality rescue pumpers with Series 60 470HP engines, Allison HD4060PR transmissions, 750 GWT and 1500 single stage Hales. The first year they were fabulous. Few if any warranty issues and very, very reliable except in one regard. In the small blue plant on the hill in Alabama these were built one behind the other. After 7 years you would have thought they came from different planets. The one, lets call it Engine 2, is an electrical nightmare. We call the local Quality dealer and get no real direction. We call Quality and are told its a Spartan problem. We call Michigan and Spartan tells us to call Alabama back because they finished the rig and they are the ones to talk to. The typical round and round game as it were. All of this because from time to time the entire back end would lose all lights. Rear warning lights, brake lights, back up lights, turn signals, everything. We cover a major freeway and major roadways and so this was a bigger than normal major issue if you follow me on top of the already obvious danger posed when merely driving after dark. Another problem that was identified by our department mechanics was a low voltage problem. This periodically occurs and causes the transmission to lock in what gear it is in. Sometimes it occurs when firing up the apparatus and other times when the apparatus is slowed for an intersection and trying to accelerate again. The blame game lasted over 1 month and in the end we got the local E-One dealer to fix the problem. My point is go with single source like already suggested. With the aquisition of Luverne and Quality by Spartan they should be considered a single source builder now. But I would check first because warranty issues come out of each respective companies budget and they may have internal turf fights if you will. Spartan has also, in my opinion, lagged behind on A/C system development. Very underpowered and almost like they are not even there. Poor location above the engine which means first the A/C is trying to over power the engine and then the crew. Overall electrical system relaibility, ease of maintenance and quality would be rated at a 5 on a 1-10 grading scale. Door trim and molding issues get a 4 as they are poor at best and have been fixed/replaced countless times. Interior surfaces and trim has held up well enough by fire fighter standards but is still easy to damage and mark. Quality really had no opinion on the issue after they were delivered to us. Paint and fit and finish gets about an 8. Overall they did a good job. Desire and ability to work with us, listen, spec and build what we wanted would get another 8. It was not a problem until after we got them. The problem we had was no one in the area had Quality apparatus let alone on Spartan chassis before we purchased ours. The closest was Austin with quite a few in service. I did a large amount of research with AFD to find out the likes and dislikes and get ideas and learn the pitfalls. They only had 3 close to ours in design and they proved very helpful in providing some insight prior to actually finalizing specs and having them built. Isn't it sad when an E-One dealer is more help than the builder of the apparatus. Our last three (3) apparatus purchases needless to say have not been from Quality and are not Spartan chassis.
Pierce, as surpised as some on here might be to here this from me, makes a good apparatus as long is there is no aerial on it. In the area of pumpers, tankers, rescues they are on par with anyone. Very good fit and finish overall. Compartment door closure and latching is above par. Engineering concepts and desire to work with the customer is good. Open minded and willing to listen. After the delivery I do disagree with BC79er however. When it comes to the same problem re-occuring, they are like everyone else. Ask Sugar Land about their twin pumpers. One is in good shape (Engine 3 I believe) and another is a problem (Engine 5 I believe). I won't get into the issues but lets just say it has been repainted entirely and the transmission re-done atleast 1 or 2 times. I think when it goes into pump gear when moving in freeway traffic is a great story. Overall engineering and willingness to work with the customer would rate them an 8. Fit and finish gets a 9. Electrical reliability, ease of maintenance, etc. would get a 7. Overall I would spec and order a pumper made by Pierce any day of the week just like an E-One. A number of area departments have speced/recieved Pierce rescues and they are very good, reliable and sturdy rigs. Ask Ponderosa and Champions about their rescues. Excellent use of space on Ponderosa Rescue 61 with many nice features. Friends of mine said that Pierce was a gem to work with and really provided valuable insight and ideas. Just some thoughts.
Saulsbury bodies. What can be said. When it comes to custom designs, quality and realiability no other builder comes close. No matter if it is on a Seagrave chassis (Co.14 in Prince Georges Cty., Md.) on an E-One Cyclone II (FDNY Rescue Co.'s) or a Mack or whatever other chassis makers are out there, Saulsbury is king. I can't describe the options, ideas, creativity and overall ability they have in building bodies for apparatus. Someone mentioned the FDNY rigs that are E-One Cyclone II/Saulsbury rigs in an earlier post. In October I spoke with the brothers of Rescue Co. 01 about their new rig. Like any other new rig there are problems to shake out and resolve. They said they had not had it long enough to really judge it which is honest and makes sense. But something to look at, since 1982 they have been buying Saulsbury for their Rescue Co.'s. That says something. Starting with ALF chassis, then Mack chassis, HME chassis and now E-One chassis, they keep going back to Saulsbury everytime.
No matter who you buy from, make sure they build what you need and want. Not what they try to convince you that you need and want. Draw a line and agree amongst your committee that we will not budge on certain issues that you deem essential for your operations. If the builder will not work with you, then move on to another. In the end you will be happier with the end product.
Some Thoughts if I may:
Storage space: Plan for growth. Don't spec the rig to carry what you need today, plan for 5 or 10 years down the road but staying within reason.
Generator: AMPS, in my opinion, is the dominant maker. I agree with staying away from gasoline and diesel power. A PTO powered generator is quiet and doesn't take up valuable compartment space.
Pull-out Trays/Tool Boards: Excellent options to maximize available space for the most storage on the rig that allows for quick and easy access on scene.
Engine Size: Plan on the overall output of the engine declining over time. Especially on a pumper, make sure that the engine can power the pump at full capicity 15 years from now without needing a total rebuild.
Supplemental Braking System: Minimize as much as possible the wear and tear on your brake system. Think about a Super Jake to help out in that area. I ride on a Ladder Truck that will slow to 2 MPH without using the brakes. It really helps. I would recommend against any device that draws electrical power from the apparatus to assist in braking the apparatus. Combine one of these in its maximum stop stage with a Q2, the A/C, the engine, transmission, warning lights, etc. and your gonna spike even the biggest alternator and start sucking batteries. Just something to think about.
Front Bumper: So many departments still today leave this real estate un-used or underused. Put 2 reels and your pre-connected spreaders and cutters, trash line, cord reel, etc. up there to maximize onscene efficiency. Minimize the "apparatus walk around" to get tools from both sides to use at the front of the rig. With them up front it makes spotting the rig alot easier than having to back it in to reach the scene with your reels or pull past it and still need to get your tools out of the compartments.
Hose bed: Low is good. Lower is better. Minimize injuries and impracticality by getting the hydrant connection and rear pre-connects closer to the men and women that are gonna pull them. Alot of departments are specing and buying all in one rigs with huge booster tanks, CAFS, monster generators, 2 light towers, etc. and their hose beds are 7 feet above the ground. Make builders work foryour sale. Tell him you want a hose bed that is no higher than XX" from the ground. If he wants the sale they will find a way to get the tank moved around to allow for your needs for a low hose bed.
Intakes: Put them all on the officer side of the rig. Why clutter area of the most mobile member of the 1st in crew during the first 10 minutes of a working fire. No reason you can't put 2 LDH intakes and atleast 1 LDH discharge on the same officer side pump panel. Simpler is easier and safer isn't it? If you make it better, quicker and easier then fire fighters will do it better and quicker with fewer shortcuts taken and relatively speaking fewer injuries doing those tasks on the fire ground.
Scene Lighting: Again, never too much on a scene. Put that 6KW tower on top to turn night into day. You have the generator of all generators to run it so use it. 1 scene light on each side of the cab and 2 on each side of the body with 2 on the rear. Put 2 floodlights above the windshield to light up the jaws calls on the freeway and your work area in front of the rig. Put 2 on each side and 2 on the rear. You have the generator for it. Lighter and brighter is better and safer.
Cord Reels (Electrical/Hydraulic/Air): Put them were they are gonna be used. Don't bury the electrical cord reels under the rear tailboard or in the rear facing compartment when you almost never stretch an electrical cord reel straight back to go inside a structure. Put the tools that go with a certain type reel in the same compartment with the reel(s). Minimize that walking around on the scene. If your extrication tools are on the front bumper, so should be your reels. If you have electrical cord reels on each side of the rig, locate equal portable floodlighting with the cord reels. How about air reels for hand tools and/or lifting bags? Locate the tools and equipment with the reels if at all possible.
Crosslays: No matter if you go with cross lays, speed lays or static beds the fact remains that lower is always better. For the same reasons as the hose bed, locate them as low as possible to make stretching easier.
CAFS: ISO does in fact give credit for a CAFS system. In addition to the obvious financial benefit to your citizens and businesses on your next rating, it also is a great tool for structural fire fighting allowing you to effectively stretch your available water. This is a great benefit if your department utilizes a "Fast Attack" with tank water by the 1st arriving Engine Co.
Hand Tool Placement: I am not a big advocate of tools being mounted in the cab with the crew because of the obvious hazards associated with the rig being involved in a motor vehicle accident and the tools becoming airborne if not properly secured after the last run. Take a lesson from alot of Northern Departments. Locate your hooks, pike poles, whatever you call them right outside the cab in the vertical position. When the crew exits the rig the hooks are right there. How about portable extinguishers. FDNY has an excellent open compartment sized space with water cans located in tubes. This eliminates the need to open a door and unsecure the can from its mounting bracket to bring it with you. There are alot of departments that do not think ahead in placing tools that are used together on scene together on the rig. Wherever your halligan is so should be your flat head axe and/or maul/sledgehammer. If you use seating assignments for fire ground duties this is very helpful. If the right side #1 jump seat on the Rescue Co. or Truck Co. is part of the forcible entry team then make his/her tools readily available on their side of the rig. Don't make them walk around to get the tools. Fire Fighters have a habit of taking shortcuts, eliminate the possibility of them forgoing the rabbit tool, for instance, because its on the other side of the rig. If you carry all your extrication equipment in one compartment, why not carry the cribbing by way of an underbody pullout compartment under the extrication compartment? Adapters, reducers, etc. are utilized most often by whom on the fireground? Make them readily available by locating them together in an easily accessible place to the Chauffeur. This can be in the first compartment on the chauffeurs side or the officers side if you have all your intakes on that side.
I didn't mean to go on so long, so please forgive me guys and girls. Alot of these are no brainer ideas that I am sure many of you have thought about and used yourselves. Just some thoughts and ideas.
Last edited by STATION2; 12-26-2002 at 11:23 PM.Stay low and move it in.
12-27-2002, 09:05 AM #14
- Join Date
- Feb 2000
- Willington F.D., CT
When we started talking to vendors about a new truck (rear mount CAFS rescue pumper), the Pierce dealer said up front "We are not interested." I suspect that attitude came from the local dealer and not Pierce itself.
Saulsbury brought out a truck for us to see and gave us a preliminary spec and price that covered 90% of what we wanted. The truck was great and their reputation for building rescues was unmatched anywhere. They are withing a few hours driving time from us as well. I wanted a Saulsbury! But when it came time to bid, they would not submit one. The local salesman said he was told from above not to bid on our truck.
I certainly don't understand this business. (OK, I know we're getting off-topic, but I needed to vent)
12-27-2002, 06:28 PM #15
Stuart, I think it's the rear-mount pump that's scaring off Pierce (nationally), not the CAFS issue. Pierce isn't really one to get into true "custom" pumpers -- they build from a pretty set pallete of options.
We ran into the same issue back in the early/mid-90s when considering a rear mount, Pierce wouldn't bid on it, but would allow their eastern Massachusetts dealer (E.J. Murphy who also is a rebuilder/custom shop) to bid on building one using a Pierce chassis & compartments. Hampton, btw, runs a nice Spartan/Marion 1500gpm rear mount with 1500gwt on a single rear axle chassis, legal or real close to it under the bridge law.
BTW, we have a 1995 Spartan/Marion and a 2001 Pierce and both are fine pieces in my opinion.
08-08-2006, 12:12 PM #16
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
Hey station2 did you ever find the right rear hubcap on your crownvic???
08-08-2006, 08:18 PM #17
Rear Mount Pierce
I saw the thread, and wanted to put my 2 cents in. I am going to Pierce to sign our drawing for a rear mount pumper that will be used as our rescue truck on August 24, 2006. We have the reels, foam, tower light etc. It will be used as a day truck when our mutual aid companies bring their straight rescues to a call where we need to knock down some fire when going to work.
08-09-2006, 11:26 AM #18
Station2,Depends on which Spartan you get where the A/C is located.On our 04 Gladiator,it's on the ceiling and we've had no problems with heating or cooling.Up here in the piney wood,heat is more important than cool but we've had some pretty hot days and no issues keeping the cab cool.Several nice changes were made to the Gladiators just prior to ours being built.No real maintainence issues to date and the crew/chauffers are pretty happy with the rig.Now our neighbors have an Advantage and the A/C is on the hump.So I'm thinking it makes a difference which model you have. T.C.
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