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  1. #1
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    Default How much 5" LDH?

    I am trying to conveince my department to switch to 5" LDH. Can anybody point me in the right direction to find out how much 5" hose will fit on our engines? Does any one have a formula of how much hose will fit in a given hose bed size?

    Engine 1 hose bed: 19" x 19" x 144" = 51984 in^3 = 30.08 ft^3

    Engine 2 hose bed: 25" x 16" x 128" = 51200 in^3 = 29.63 ft^3

    Thanks in adavance


  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber jsdobson's Avatar
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    I can only say from personal experience that if you can fit 800' of 3" into your hose bed, you should be able to fit at least the same amount of 5" in the same bed. We used to load 800' of 3" and now we load 1000' of 5". I don't know the exact measurements of our hosebeds so I can't help you there.

    By the way, we were able to increase the amount of 5" to 1000' by loading all of the couplings in the front of the hose bed. It takes some work but our hosebed will have two or three rows of couplings when the job is finished.
    BE SAFE
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  3. #3
    Senior Member ENG6511's Avatar
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    http://www.kidde-fire.com/angus/techinfo/2.htm Remember to use the "flat" diameter to see how your bed width works. That is, how many can your bed hold side by side? Some times in a conversion you will have to change the dividers so the hose doesn't overlap. This can be a problem in laying.
    Bob Compton
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  4. #4
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    Thanks ENG5611,

    That is exactly what I was looking for. I knew it had to be available, but I could not find it.

    Theoretically, it looks like we would have to move the bed divider to 24" to get 3 wide, then we could theoretically fit 975'. So maybe we can get 1000' on.

    We have hydrants, spaced every 1 mile, to the Interstate exchange 3 miles. We could reach most of the houses on this strech with 2000' of 5". About 12 houses and one school. Also, about 20 houses the other directioin out of town. All of these we would require a tanker shuttle today.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    If the one of your critical factors is fitting maximum hose in a set amount of space, talk to the vendors about that. Actually, call the factory 'cause the local salesman *probably* doesn't know squat.

    I don't know how it affects the final amount you can put in a flat hose bed, but Niedner Supplyline has a "coil diameter" of 25" for 50' of hose. Angus Hi-Vol is 27" for 50". That's about 10%, so I'd guess at least an extra 100' per 1000', but I suspect it's a lot more. Your folds and couplings are where hose bed space is lost, so hose that folds tighter will allow you fit more in.

    Make sure your troops know to stagger the folds, too.

    So get tighter folding hose. Now, about those couplings...get the longest practical lengths of hose to minimize volume-sucking couplings. 100' lengths will let you fit in a lot more hose than 50' lengths. Speaking about couplings, avoid needing "dutchmens" -- pack the hose so the couplings will come straight out.

    Because we mostly lay in the 2500-3500' range when we committ to a laid line evolution, we carry predominantly 200' lengths on our reel-equipped Engine to save on coupling space. Our 2nd out ET carries 100-150' or so lengths (it has 200' lengths that where cut down to remove sections that fail annual service tests).

  6. #6
    dazed and confused Resq14's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Dalmatian90
    Speaking about couplings, avoid needing "dutchmens" -- pack the hose so the couplings will come straight out.
    Isn't that what a "Dutchman" does... allows for the coupling to pay-out without flipping over? That's how we've always referred to it atleast.

    Perhaps I'm operating on too little sleep here, but I'll ask anyhow: how else would you pack the hose to come out straight without using "dutchmen"?

  7. #7
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    Brain not functioning right now...I gotta look at a hose bed to think of how to describe it right! Let ya know this weekend

  8. #8
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Dal,
    Did you ever find out ? I thought tha is also what the ol' flying dutchm,an did, just curious.
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  9. #9
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    Here's an update. We recieved a DNR grant in the water handling catigory. We will be getting some basic couplings (steamer connection) and 500' of 5" next year, when we are on a new budget and will have the matching funds. This is a start, and hopefully we can add more hose later. I think we shold be able to get 700' on our primary engine, with the dividers set at 16" wide, 19" tall and 144" long.

    Can the extra 3" width (divider is currently set at 19" wide) be used to fit in more hose, or will the hose not layout correcly because of the overlaps? The layflat hose width is 7.88"; two wide will fit, three will not.

  10. #10
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    We just recently switched over our E-one engines hosebed to 5" .

    It had a forward and reverse of 2-1/2" which were 800feet each as well as a bed of 4"storz that was only 600ft
    Well the end result was we ended up with 900ft of 5" and a bed of 1000' of 2-1/2" .
    We eliminated one 2-1/2" bed on the bed took out one divider . IMO it better suits our dept and also looks a lot better than the old load

    Heres a couple pics

    Before


    After



  11. #11
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    if you dont mind me saying so..........thats a DARN ncie hose bed ya got there !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
    ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown)
    RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05
    LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607
    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
    "but I guarentee you I will FF your arse off" from>
    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Weruj1
    if you dont mind me saying so..........thats a DARN ncie hose bed ya got there !
    Thanx
    (aside from the dirty 2-1/2" )

  13. #13
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    Each Engine Co. has 1000' of 5" LDH and 800' of 6" LDH. We have 300' plug spacing and this works out great for us. Just some thoughts.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

  14. #14
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    Default Say what ????

    Larry,Help a dummy here.300'plug spacing and 1100' of hose.And to make it worse two sizes requiring different adapters.Why?We do 4+5 and it can be a problem.And our spacing is 500'.T.C.

  15. #15
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    Not a dumb question. First, the 5" and 6" both have the same size hydrant adapters. Second, each of our 3 Engine Co.'s and our Tower Co. are set up with a 5" intake on the Chauffeur side and a 6" intake on the officers side. As for the hose load, it works like this. We are about 50% commercial, 25 % industrial and 25% residential overall. We have had numerous fires in warehouses where the 300' plug spacing was worth its weight in gold, now keep in mind that most our warehouses are about 100' from the roadway. We try to get the Tower Co. (2-1000GPM monitors in the platform, 2-1250GPM deck guns and 1-1250GPM portable monitor) in first, followed by the 1st in Engine Co. The 1st in Engine Co. layes a 5" and 6" from the plug to the Tower and pulls off an extra 100' of each. They then continue to the next plug where they hook up (100' off the road minimum + 100' extra dropped at the Tower + 300' to the next plug = 500' of each). This still leaves 300' of 6" and 500' of 5" to work with for portable master streams, supplying another Truck Co., laying big water to another side of the structure, etc. Keep in mind, sometimes the building setback is greater, apparatus placement is necessary further down the building, etc. We learned a while back its better to be able to generate big water quickly. We also learned its best to have a little extra to make sure it gets done right the 1st time. All in all, consider it insurance that when you need to generate big water that it can be done. As for adapting the 5" and 6" together, we carry 5" Stortz to 6" Storts adapters on each rig to make sure it can be done if needed, but mostly for when running with automatic-aid departments either in our jurisdiction or theirs. Its just another adapter in the compartment. Just some thoughts.

    Stay low and move it in.

    P.S.: Having one water department for our entire jurisdiction cannot be emphasized enough. They have put in 80+ plugs for us in the last 2 years wherever we asked them to. Our commercial areas have mains ranging 14" to 42". They have more than enough above ground storage (And are building another next to our Station #2), they have personnel on call 24/7 that live in our city and can boost pressure by putting additional pumps on line with 20 minutes of notification, etc. They do an excellent job of supplying us the water. Its wasted if we are unable to move it and use it when it counts. As a side bar, the ISO evaluator that recently graded our department couldn't believe the flows we were getting out of our hydrants. He picked numerous hydrants randomly and was amazed everytime.
    Last edited by STATION2; 11-10-2003 at 09:40 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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