I am sitting here working a 48 hour shift to cover for a few guys so they can be off on christmas eve and day and me and my driver were having a discussion on putting pumps on apparatus. I personally think there should be at least a 750gpm pump and a small tank on every apparatus from an engine to a truck, to a squad and rescue and everything else basicly involved directly in fire suppression activities. Just in the event of a worst case senario type thing. The main conflict we are having is on the squad and rescue apparatus, I think they should he disagrees what do you all think?
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Thread: Pump it up
12-24-2002, 01:09 PM #1
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
Pump it up
12-24-2002, 03:37 PM #2
Over here, if it don't carry water, it ain't a fire engine.
Basically, for funding purposes, from both local and central government, a fire engine MUST be capable of fighting fires to qualify for monetary funding from resources other than the fire service. My service does'nt run what we call Emergency or Rescue Tenders because of this and thr fact that if cuts were required, they are not considered a front line engine and would be the first to get the chop if needed. So all 23 of our trucks have 300gallon tanks and 600gpm pumps.United Kingdom branch, IACOJ.
12-24-2002, 04:08 PM #3
All fires eventually go out
I have to disagree.
We sometimes get sidetracked and forget that the most important part of this job is not putting the fire out, but saving the lives it threatens. The truck company I work on has existed for almost 115 years (since 1890), and no one has ever felt the need to add a pump to it. Our primary mission is to search out and rescue victims. Having a hoseline to slow me down or distract me from that mission would not be a positive. Remember, all fires eventually go out, with or without water. Sure our mission is also to preserve property, but lives come first. Everything else is replaceable.
When I worked on an engine company, I did feel the way you do, as my mission was extinguishment. Why would anyone want to go in a fire without water? After being on the truck for a while, you get used to it, even hate the idea of being tied to a line. I think you'll find most experinced laddermen prefer to keep things just the way they are.
Just My OpinionSee You At The Big One
12-24-2002, 05:01 PM #4
- Join Date
- Nov 2002
Not to say that the lines or water will be used on every fire, but on the ones where there is a delayed response from and engine company for some reason or another. ie. an extra alarm fire in another part of the city which ties up a good many engine. Or my defense was a very far fetched senario such as Chigo catching fire again, a pump and tank would allow each unit to act independantly where a properly staffed truck could split into 2 teams fire attack and also search and vent, in a Chicago fire situation you could theorheticly send 1 apparatus per alarm, granted you would not send a single squad to a 30,000 sq ft. warehouse, but it could go to a small residential. Just a weak Idea I have been throwing around to kill time.
12-24-2002, 05:16 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jul 2002
Personally, I think rural apparatus should be equipped with 1000 to 1500 GPM pumps and 1000 to 1200 gallon tanks. Tankers should be capable of pump and roll. They should carry 2000 to 3000 gallons of water.
As for city/urban apparatus, I don't feel qualified to form an opinion due to a lack of experience in a urban setting.Another lifetime volunteer proud to serve my community.
12-24-2002, 05:36 PM #6
Originally posted by 12TruckIrons
- Join Date
- Sep 2001
- S.E. Idaho
very far fetched senario such as Chigo catching fire again, a pump and tank would allow each unit to act independantly where a properly staffed truck could split into 2 teams fire attack and also search and vent, in a Chicago fire situation you could theorheticly send 1 apparatus per alarm, granted you would not send a single squad to a 30,000 sq ft. warehouse, but it could go to a small residential.
12-24-2002, 10:53 PM #7
- Join Date
- Jun 2002
- Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
I think this is one of those things that is best left to local people, who decide what is best for local conditions. Sure, I've dumped a "Can" on a room and contents because our Tower was a block from the scene when the box was struck, and the Engine was coming from quarters, a mile away. But that is a very unusual thing, certainly not enough to warrant adding a pump and tank to our ladders and squads. On the same thought, we run a heavy rescue on auto accidents, and an engine as well, so water isn't a problem there either. Those who have a long wait for the next unit to arrive to help probably need to look at this question in a different light. Stay Safe....Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
In memory of
Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006
IACOJ Budget Analyst
I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.
12-25-2002, 12:43 AM #8
posted by firemangeorge
the most important part of this job is not putting the fire out, but saving the lives it threatens.
I agree that not all aparatus need pumps, especially squads. However, often times the best way to save lives is to put the fire out."We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."
12-25-2002, 05:57 AM #9
- Join Date
- Apr 2001
- Rimersburg, PA
I'd have to say as a short answer not every piece of fire department equipment needs to have a pump and tank.
For the most part we all agree on what our mission as firefighters is. To save lives and to protect property. It is in the method that opinions will vary the most. Not every method of firefighting works in all areas. You have to go with what works best in your area. Of our four apparatus, 3 have a pump and water tank, but our rescue doesn't. For the most part this has worked well for us, even during the day light hours with minimal staffing availible. Some times the engine and or tanker may respond with just a driver, We of course would prefer a lager crew but you deal with what you get. I work in Armstrong county but live in Clarion, in Armstrong many of the departments seem to subscribe to the "mini" concept. I personally am glad that my department doesn't, but it appears to work for them here. And in the end that's all that matters. I just don't think I would advocate the added cost to an already expensive unit to full fill a duty which is already being handled by an engine. If you find your department is unable to have the required apparatus to full fill your duties respond, then you need to think about mutual aid or replacing units with combinations such as a rescue pumper or a quint. Combination units are one way to have all your toys at a given location just in fewer boxes. At any rate, God bless and stay safe, oh, and Merry Christmass!
Randall E. Guntrum FF/E.M.T.
Last edited by Gooch26; 02-02-2008 at 04:21 AM.If lights, sirens, and air horns do not attract the attention of a driver, he or she is too drunk to be assisted by a paint scheme.
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