Thread: Use of your TIC

  1. #26
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    Question TI

    Has anyone mentioned Haz Mat ( Liquid levels in containers, spills on the street and or in waterways,etc.)
    Rapid Intervention Teams

    Be Safe
    FOOLS

  2. #27
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    Default Re: Real dumb questions

    Originally posted by JJBat150
    Heard through sales staff that you can take you 100' ladder, climb to the top & find someone in the dark. How true is this? Isn't your range very limited by the low to no power zoom lens (Basically a 1:1 picture?)

    "Thermal imprints" on car seats, skid marks... how accurate? Does anybody have a success story?

    Energy conservation.. Again heard through sales staff that you can scan exterior walls of building and find areas where cold air is entering the building, thus allowing a FD to better winterize.. True/False
    1. Maybe. Unfortunately, "maybe" is the answer to most TI questions. The assumption in climbing to the top of the ladder is that the person is in direct view of the TI. If there is a heavy tree line, your range is reduced. If the person is intentionally hiding under brush or rock ledges, then your success may be limited. If the ground is warm, or the person's clothes are snow covered, your range is also reduced. Unrestricted range, under normal conditions and with good temperature differentiation, is roughly 1/4 mile. Most fire service TI's have a field of view (FOV) of about 55 degrees. This gives a fairly wide view without making the image too small. Larger FOV's cover more distance, but shrink everything to fit the display; smaller FOV's make items more lifelike in size (I believe 17 degrees is life size), but create a greater tunnel vision effect.
    2. Imprints on car seats are possible; I personally know an FD in IN that did just that. For deeper discussion, see earlier posts. Skid marks are a valid use, though more difficult with ABS. See www.leta.org for more on skids.
    3. TI's have been used for years to check insulation; a fire service TI is not ideal due to its "fire hardiness", but it will work quite well. www.thermalimager.com (by Bullard) has lots of other uses and success stories.

  3. #28
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    Exclamation Re: TI

    Originally posted by eng21ine
    Has anyone mentioned Haz Mat ( Liquid levels in containers, spills on the street and or in waterways,etc.)
    Rapid Intervention Teams

    Be Safe
    FOOLS
    DO NOT BRING A TIC INTO AN EXPLOSIVE ENVIRONMENT! If the case is breeched, TIC's have enough voltage inside to cause an explosion that can not be contained internally. In non explosive environments, be aware some manufacturer's do not have their thermal plastic tested for corrosive products. Ask your manufacturer if their TIC was tested to plastic standards by a third party for corrosive products. But even with that there is no intrisically safe camera!
    <0><0>

  4. #29
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    Default Re: Real dumb questions

    Originally posted by JJBat150

    Heard through sales staff that you can take you 100' ladder, climb to the top & find someone in the dark. How true is this? Isn't your range very limited by the low to no power zoom lens (Basically a 1:1 picture?)

    "Thermal imprints" on car seats, skid marks... how accurate? Does anybody have a success story?

    Energy conservation.. Again heard through sales staff that you can scan exterior walls of building and find areas where cold air is entering the building, thus allowing a FD to better winterize.. True/False

    Knowing the way firefighters are, I'm sure all the above questions can be answered, and there are probably a lot of other "creative" uses out there that people would like to share.
    firemanjb is correct with what he wrote. Locally we had police call in FD to help get a suspect who had fled into a local swamp. They used it off of a 100' ladder. It was last fall and it was cold out. Luckily they found him with the thermal imager, he was starting to show signs of hyperthermia.
    A little education:
    Thermal imagers read heat. Therefore, if you are looking for someone who is dead-it won't work because they are the same temperature as the air around them.If you are looking for someone who is drowned, it can't see through water (but you will see them if they are floating on the top). If you are looking for someone in a forest, if they are fully covered by something that is the same temperature as the surrounding, you will not be able to find them.
    As to how far you can see someone, it will change with the enviroment conditions you are in. My FF Brother was in a 100' aerial looking around, and saw a dog and it's handler at least 1/4 mile away! So that is true.
    As to the thermal imprints, it once again will change with environment. There will be thermal imprints. It's a matter as to how long after it is left behind you will be able to see it or not (changes with environment).
    Not only can you use it for insulation, you can also use it for industrial uses. Such as heated up power circuits, over heated circuit boxes, etc... Great for smells and bells.
    <0><0>

  5. #30
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    Default Re: Re: TI

    Originally posted by TIC_Girl
    Ask your manufacturer if their TIC was tested to plastic standards by a third party for corrosive products.
    Out of curiosity, TIC Girl, to which standard do you suggest that plastics might be tested for corrosive products? Why test just plastics, and not composites such as fiberglass?

  6. #31
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    Default Re: Re: Real dumb questions

    Originally posted by TIC_Girl
    Therefore, if you are looking for someone who is dead-it won't work because they are the same temperature as the air around them.If you are looking for someone who is drowned, it can't see through water (but you will see them if they are floating on the top). If you are looking for someone in a forest, if they are fully covered by something that is the same temperature as the surrounding, you will not be able to find them.
    A few points of contention, if I may:
    1. The ability of a TI to find a body is not dependent on the air temperature; it is dependent on the temperature of the surfaces around the body. Even if the body and the ground are the same temperature, chances are the ground material and the clothing (or skin) absorb and reflect heat at slightly different rates, so an image will still be possible. It will just be more difficult.

    2. A drowning victim that has surfaced likely will have the same temperature as the water surface; as a result, identifying the body may be difficult. One advantage is that at night, the water will tend to reflect some of the "cold" of deep space (from the sky), while the victim's body will not.

    3. Forest searches, even if the person is covered by material, are worth a shot with the TI. Even intentionally hidden bodies (alive or dead) are difficult to cover completely, so there may be a slight heat signature. In addition, a live person may heat up the material covering him (if it is thin enough) to the point where he is emitting a verifiable heat signature.

  7. #32
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    Jb is right on target as usual.Bodies,even dead ones will leave a thermal "imprint".Now if you left the body in the enviornment overnight or for a long period of time then this point becomes moot.If this is an active search in a building that has recently been involved in fire or explosion then GENERALLY you will be able to find a body if you have a good amount of time with IMAGE INTERPRETATION.This is where a lot of training programs fail,they don't spend enough time on low heat,small fire/no fire image interpretation.Most FFs can find a working fire with a camera,but bury a live "victim" under some couch cushions in a corner and see how they do.We do,and when they "all clear" a room, send them back in to find what they missed.Haz Mat with cameras is a little different deal,one should take the time to identify the product or products BEFORE CAMERA USE is even considered.As has been pointed out here so many times,BUT IS SO IMPORTANT that it needs repeating,is that NO camera is intrinscally safe and should NEVER be used in proximity to flammable/explosive atmospheres.If firefighters come off the rig,so should the camera,barring the cautions outlined above.T.C.

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