1. #1
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    Default Single Axle Quint

    Hello,
    I have heard the argument that it is not a good idea to have a single axle quint. We are in the process of looking into the purchase of possibly a single axle quint w/ rescue tools to be carried on it. If it is such a PROBLEM and everyone knows about it, why are all the companies still selling them. We are looking at pierce, smeal, and e-one. We have looked at them all and all seem to be in the same quality ball park, with pierce being a little better over all. E-one side stacker is a nice unit but it is a cookie cutter of a truck and to spec what you want i think would be an arm and a leg? help me on that? And smeal seams to have the most amount of options and the willingness to be the most custom with potenially by far the most comparment space. We are interested in looking at a St Louis Spec from smeal because of the amount of compartment space that appears to be on the truck, minus the EHL.
    If they are so bad, then why are they selling???

  2. #2
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    Default PRICES?

    Any word on the prices of the 75' and 100 foot trucks. Are 75's that much of a bargain?

  3. #3
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    The federal department I work for operates a 92 Pierce Arrow with a 65' Telesquirt ladder on a single rear axle. The truck has a 1000 GPM pump, 500 gal tank and a 100 gal foam tank. The only other ladders carried are a 35', 14' and a 10' attic ladder.

    The only problem we experience is that the weight of the vehicle exceeds federal weight limits on axle loading. The chassis is designed to cary the weight (42,000 lbs) but federal standards are 12,000 lbs on the front axle and 20,000 lbs on the rear axle.

    We have no problem operating on public roads while responding to emergencies but we must obtain an overweight permit for routine operations such as taking the truck to a shop for maintenance. The state provides us ten permits a year free of charge so it is just a matter of filling out the paperwork.

  4. #4
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    Default

    One of the main benefits of buying a aerial like E-one is the ladder or platform is much lighter and as strong as or even stronger than a steel aerial. This allows for either more equipment or less weight / fatigue on a single axle.

  5. #5
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    here is ours a 1991 E-One hurriucane/Hush. The reason of the type of cab and engine placement is that we have very small doors. Our ladder has a 1500gpm pump with 500 gallons of water 500 feet of 4 inch, 250' of 1" line, 800' of 1 3/4" attack line, 100' of 1 3/4 trash line, 200' of 2 1/2 blitz line, 200' of 3" blitz line it was Ladder ops tools along with Engine Co ops rescue co ops and also being a BLS unit. This truck was the busyest ladder county in the county it went almost every where

    Rob aka Squinty

    The Fighting Seventy-Third

    Westville Fire Department
    Gloucester County
    New Jersey

  6. #6
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    fflynn17's Avatar
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    Default

    Take a look at this web page: www.metz-apparatus.com/quints.html
    This is a versatile piece of apparatus, with amazing features.
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

  7. #7
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    Myself, I do not understand why anyone would say the single axle is bad, unless you are putting too much on the apparatus and you go over the weight rating of the axle.

    Make sure you specify your equipment load. You stated you were carrying rescue equipment. Weigh all your equipment and make sure you are under the 2500# minimum equipment load as required by NFPA. With most manufacturers, if you need more than 2500# then you need to specify that up front.

    Also, the hose carried on the apparatus is above and beyond the equipment allowance. Make sure you add the weight of ALL hose, even the crosslays and front trashline if you have one.

    NFPA minimum water tank size is 300 gallons. Do a thorough evaluation and determine if you really need the 500 gallons. I know Smeal has a version of the E-One side stacker called the EZR. I also know when they offer this, they usually have full depth 24" deep compartments on the left side and the issue of water capacity may not be because of the weight, but literally because of space. As you stated, they have more compartment space. You have to sacrifice water for compartment space.

    Cubic feet is cubic feet. As the saying goes, you can get 10 gallons of **** in a 5 gallon bucket, but some manufacturers will tell you it is possible.

    Smeal is truly a custom builder. I think many of the larger builder such as Pierce and E-One find it much easier to say, "Not an Option", instead of actually looking into it.

    Remember, you get what you pay for.

  8. #8
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    Default

    What about sutphen aerials. They make a single axle and our tower has held up real well so I would expect the same from the ladders. Low ride hight also. Any ides on sutphen.

  9. #9
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    My department very recently purchased an E-One 75' Quint and a top mount Pumper on a Typhoon custom chasses. The Quint is a single axle and it met our departments specs. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the single axle truck is cheeper (in price) then a tandon. I think that we purchased both of the trucks for around $675,000, the Quint being the most expensive. What it really comes down to is...What are the needs, and wants, of your department? My department wanted a single axle apparatus for one major reason: size. Our station is already crowded, and is going to get worse when those two new trucks arrive. The single axle truck gave us this because it is only 3" longer then our 1997 E-One pumper. The 75' ladder meet the needs for an arial apparatus, because no building in our JD(to date) exceeds 5 stories. Anyway, like I said. It is all about what your department wants.

  10. #10
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    The only problem we experience is that the weight of the vehicle exceeds federal weight limits on axle loading. The chassis is designed to cary the weight (42,000 lbs) but federal standards are 12,000 lbs on the front axle and 20,000 lbs on the rear axle.

    Axle ratings are based largely on the distance between axles, and fire apparatus rarely has a problem of being short enough to have less than the "standard" 40,000# max on single rear axle.

    Connecticut's standard, which is one of the strictest in the nation, is 36,000# if there's 8' or less between the front & rear axle, and 40,000# if there's 10' or more between them.

    The 32,000# comes into play this way:
    If your 32,000# or less, there's no restriction on a given axle.
    If your 36,000#, you can't excede 18,000# on an axle
    If your 40,000#, there's a formula to use.

    http://www.dot.state.ct.us/permits/eh_ndlgi.pdf

    Yes, we can excede 40,000# on a single rear axle fire apparatus in Connecticut -- but we need a permit from the State DOT to legally do it. That permit process includes submitting a list of routes the vehicle will be operated on to the DOT, whose engineers check it for bridges along the routes, and any actual restrictions those bridges would have for your weight, length, and axle locations. The permit specifies what roads you may use.

    If your running a gravel bank and your trucks are going over the same route all the time, that's not that bad.

    If your a fire department that wants to have every possible route to all adjacent towns you run mutual aid frequently too, that's a good amount of work to get a permit. And if they say no, can't go over that bridge, it's considered Reckless Driving under state statutes if you do.

    Working with our State's rules, and trying to avoid overweight permits, you're looking at fire apparatus maximums of 40,000# for singles, and 54,000 to 60,000# for tandem rears, but the 60,000# limit needs a wheelbase something like 32' to accomplish so that's getting long!

    Some of the neat quints of I've seen, like St. Louis' 54,000 single axles and Granbury, TX's 72,000# tandem axle would be hard to get unrestricted permits for in our area. Engineering on the truck can handle the weight, not neccessarily engineering on the bridges!

  11. #11
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    Spec what you need, not what the builder wants to build you. Take the time to do it right and you won't be disappointed. Stand your ground on your spec and make them build it or go else where. You have to have know the options that you are willing to give up and those that are must haves for you. Know what those are up front, not at the pre-build meeting at the factory. Also, look around at other departments, and not just those close to you. The internet is a great way to see what other departments are doing. And if your a small department, look at what the builders (Pierce, Smeal, E-One, Sutphen, Seagrave, FFA, ALF, etc.) are doing for their big city customers. If they can do it for them (In terms of specs and options) than they can do it for you eventhough they may not tell you they can.

    As for single axle quints, they can be done and done right. There is one right down the street from me, in another department, that has 75' rear mount aerial, 2000GPM single stage pump, 500GWT, Class "A" system with 20 gallon tank, 1000' of 5" hose (Not a side stacker), LFD cab with seating for 6 (Capable of 8) with ALS EMS compartment in the rear of the cab accesible from the interior and exterior, roll up compartment doors, full set of extrication equipment with mounted reels off the rear, enough flood lighting on all 4 sides and the aerial to compete with the sun, rewind electric cord reels, 470HP Series 60, Allison world automatic transmission and much more. It is on a single axle and is a very nice rig as well as very functional.

    FF43065, Did I mention it is an E-One on a Cyclone II chassis?

    Stay low and move it in.
    Last edited by STATION2; 01-31-2003 at 02:44 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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