1. #1
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    Default Those Damn Cops Again!

    Look at this news story! Those damn cops are at it again!

    NYPD Officers Rescue Three in Bronx Blaze
    Seven Firefighters, Three Police Officers and One Paramedic Treated for Minor Injuries
    ............



    Juan Gonzalez, New York Post

    John Ferrer, Anthony Ledonne, Faziool Shaffi and Charles Daskalakis (left to right).



    ROOSEVELT JOSEPH and ANDY GELLER
    New York Post


    Four heroic cops, following the faint cries of "help" coming from a burning Bronx building, groped their way through heavy smoke early yesterday to rescue three people before firefighters arrived.

    "I am very grateful to the cops," said Joseph Tucci, whose father and sister were saved by the hero officers. "I don't think the cops get enough credit for the work they do."

    The drama began at 4:30 a.m., Monday, when a man ran into the 45th Precinct station house in the Throgs Neck section to report that a building around the corner was on fire.

    Sgt. Charles Daskalakis and Officers John Ferrer, Faziool Shaffi and Anthony Ledonne rushed to the three-alarm blaze at 3577 East Tremont St. and saw flames shooting out of the windows.

    With no protection except their NYPD blues, the cops ran into the smoke-filled building and heard the cries coming from the second floor.

    They rushed upstairs and found Anthony Tucci, 87, his daughter Marie Zito, 54, and Irma Fernandez, 49.

    "They were happy to see us, and we were happy to see them alive," Daskalakis said.

    Ledonne carried Tucci out of the building while the other three cops escorted Zito and Fernandez to safety.

    Anthony Tucci "said he couldn't make it downstairs," said Ledonne. "I said, ?Well, I'm not going to wait,' so I picked him up and felt my way downstairs."

    The women refused medical care, and Tucci was taken to Jacobi Hospital, where he was in stable condition.

    A total of 155 firefighters from 35 units fought the blaze, bringing it under control an hour after it started.

    Three cops, seven firefighters and one paramedic were treated for minor injuries at the hospital and released.

    Asked if he considered himself a hero, Daskalakis replied, "Not really; it's just part of the job."

    Joseph Tucci, who is also owner of the building, said his material losses were nothing compared to the knowledge that his relatives were safe.

    "I'm very upset over the fire," he said, "but I'm thankful nobody was hurt."

    James Picora, who owns a pizza parlor on the first floor, said 25 percent of his business was destroyed.

    "My store is a big mess," he said. "The ceiling is falling down. It could be a couple of months before I can open back up. All I can do now is wait for my insurance."

    ____________________________________

    Let's get 'em guys! They should not have gone into that building! They were not trained, they were not equipped and they were not part of the FD! Why, one of them could've even hurt themselves. We should not tolerate this type of behavior. I am still trying to find out if one of them tried to put up a ladder. Then we are REALLY going to be mad!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Those Damn Cops Again!

    Originally posted by GeorgeWendtCFI

    With no protection except their NYPD blues, the cops ran into the smoke-filled building and heard the cries coming from the second floor.

    Actually...they smelled doughnuts baking and thought they should check it out...

    (Tongue in cheek)
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    Angry #@$&%*#!

    That does it! If we did that, how many OSHA/NIOSH/EPA/etc/etc/etc rules would we violate. DAMN THEM!!!

    I'm gonna start carrying a gun and arresting people.

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    Default

    First of all, Good job by the cops.

    Second, What if one of those cops got hurt (or worse killed) and his family sues the city? Then what? Would they be covered? Would they be entitled to benefits? Is a cop entering a situation without the proper gear any different from a FF entering without the proper gear?

    Not faulting, not second guessing, just throwing some questions out.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Thumbs up I say they did a good job

    The cops took a serious risk entering the fire building but were able to do so and save a couple lives.

    Had it been an off duty firefighter with no protective equipment would he or she be criticized as much as the cops are in this post?

    You can "what if" this situation to death but those cops saw an oportunity to save lives and they went for it.

    I'd have a hard time sleeping if I stood out front knowing I probably could have run in and assisted some people out of a fire building before the FD units arrived and didn't.

    It boils down to risk vs. benefit. I'm sure the cops used good judgement in making their decision to go in. Had they not, the firefighters would have had to rescue them as well.

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    CF the real question is do the police have the knowlege to judge the risk vs benefit in this instance?

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    I say bravo to the cops. Why do we have to second guess everything? They saw an oppurtunity to save lives and they took it. We would all be much better off if we celebrated this sort of thing. I don't rant often, but I get so tired the state of our society and the over regulated nanny state that discourages this kind of behavior. Let's just destroy personal initiative and judgement and avoid taking reasonable risks to save lives. After all, we're in compliance with OSHA.

    I realize the above posts were make tongue in cheek, and the questions concerning insurance coverage, etc., are unfortunately, legitimate concerns. These are the symptoms of the nanny state I describe above. For some reason, we have let the government and the legal profession take our personal decisions away from us. We are being treated like children who cannot take care of themselves.
    Last edited by CJMinick390; 12-31-2002 at 11:06 AM.
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    Default

    Mannford FD (the district to the east of us) had an apartment fire at 1610 on a weekday last week. As the FD is all volunteer and the PD isn't, Mannford Police Officer Trent Mace arrived on-scene well before the FD. Officer Mace started evacuating the apartments prior to the FD arrival.

    End result was two units destroyed and six with heavy smoke damage, but no fatalities or injuries. Oh, and Mannford FD hit a light pole causing heavy damage to one of their trucks enroute to the fire because, as the paper said, the driver "was reaching down to change the siren".

    Ain't nobody perfect, guys.

    Kudos to Officer Trent Mace of the Mannford PD, Sgt. Charles Daskalakis, Officer John Ferrer, Officer Faziool Shaffi and Officer Anthony Ledonne of the NYPD.
    Bryan Beall
    Silver City, Oklahoma USA

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    I think it's great!!!

    Do you think they could respond on all these EMS calls with my crew, I'll show them how to write the reports!!!!!!

    Joking aside, they done real good.

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    Default Good question

    ***CF the real question is do the police have the knowlege to judge the risk vs benefit in this instance?***


    Smoke20286, your question is a legitimate one. Do Police have the firefighting knowledge (fire behavior, building construction, search and rescue skills) probably not. Do they have the ability to use some common sense and make good decisions? Most likely.

    It sounded like they were able to reach these people relatively safely and aid them out of the building. I obviously wasn't there to see what the fire conditions where at the time of the rescue. I'd like to believe these cops used good judgment in their actions.

    Their actions weren't text-book and they broke some rules, fortunately the end result was a positive one and all are safe.
    The text-book, NFPA, OSHA answer is they shouldn't have entered the building regardless.

    Hopefully the officers that made the rescue gained a new respect for fire and can use this experience as a learning experience.

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    You wanna come to the UK!!

    You'd think that sometimes the FD never even went to the job...Police this, Police that!! They often do good work if they get to a Fire scene first but what about the other 10 people rescued by Firefighters????

    Steve Dude
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    Default

    Not faulting, not second guessing, just throwing some questions out.
    There has been a lot of talk on the forums recently about what PD should and should not be doing at fires. There were people ready to crucify a cop because he asked for a ladder so he could raise it. There were (and are) many who think the PD should sit there and watch because they are not trained and protected. I am not one of those people. I threw my questions out there for discussion. CF-Mack asks a good question, if it were a FF without gear would they be regarded the same way?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Riddle Me This...

    If one of us walked into a store that was being robbed, and we successfully apprehended the assailant without PD training, would the cops be busting our chops? I think not.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

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    Default

    Originally posted by Duffman
    Riddle Me This...

    If one of us walked into a store that was being robbed, and we successfully apprehended the assailant without PD training, would the cops be busting our chops? I think not.
    BING, BING, BING! We have a winner!

    Exactly on point, brother.

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    NYPD.....Nice Job!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    I think they did a great job. What are they going to do just stand there? Civilins do this all the time, and are then called heros. The police are there to protect just as much as we are. I here stories all the time about firefighters running after muggers or other types of morons. As long as they did not have to be rescued to fine so be it.
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    Here we go again........First off, 9-11 is "run" by Police, not civilian dispatchers in NYC, meaning, they will (always) give emergency reports to "their-own" first.
    Possibly if Fire were notified at the same time, the PD would not have been near enough to go in -in the first place.
    In NYC I "have-seen" MVA's-Scuba-Collaspes within walking distance of Firehouses not even being aware of the job, yet flooded with PD personnel.

    I also witnesses the remains of PD-ESU Francis LaSalla being removed because while he made a valiant effort on the second floor of a building......he had no idea what the term "Floor-Above" meant. My thoughts are.......the one=up=mans-ship in NYC will never stop. The term, long since quelched by the press, "BATTLE OF THE BADGES" will remain until someone has the nerve to back the politically connected PD off.
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  18. #18
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    First off, way to go, NYPD!
    Second, excellent point, Duffman!

    I don't know squat about the political situation in NYC regarding the PD and the FD, it sounds from the post above that it's a mess. Out here in the wilds, there aren't enough emergency services personnel in any one "branch," for lack of a better term, to handle anything other than small, fairly routine incidents by themselves, so we work very well together. Is there some inter-agency rivalry and the occasional hiccup? - Abosolutely! Does it affect the way we respond? -Absolutely not!

    I'm a cop by trade and a firefighter by volunteer(?), so I sort of have the best of two worlds (considering I'm part of the 5% of people who aren't normal!)

    My #1 priority in either field is to save lives, and I feel safe in assuming it is the same for Sgt. Daskalakis, Officers Ferrer, Shaffi, Ledonne, and Mace. Will I take risks to save lives? - Yep! Will I bend the occasional policy or procedure to do so? - Again, yep!

    These guys did great, let's help them celebrate, not second-guess or criticize them. (Pass me a Guinness!)

    Again, way to go, NYPD & Mannford P.D.!

    Can't we all just get along!!!!

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    Cool Another Day, Another Rescue.....

    For the record, I am not, have not been, and do not expect to ever be, a Cop. I don't have a problem with ANYONE rushing in to pull a victim out. I also have no problem with ANYONE grabbing a purse snatcher, Etc. ALL of us in Public Safety have a duty to act (Morally if not Statutory) when an emergency arises. OK, so much for the soapbox. I'm still chuckling at George's style of writing on that one, and I noticed mention of a store in the building. No mention of what kind of store, but the term "Donut Shoppe" comes to mind..... Stay Safe.... OOPS! I mistook a Pizza Shop for a Donut Store... Well, at least most of the inventory is round in both places. Now you know why I didn't do law enforcment for a career......
    Last edited by hwoods; 12-31-2002 at 02:25 PM.
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    Question MIXED BAG FEELINGS ON THIS ONE

    This is one of those times where on one hand I have to tip my hat to the guys of the NYPD for a job done well.... this time. I appreciate what they did, and that it was a successful evolution.

    BUT... There was this detour.......

    My concern, as with any story like this one, is about safety of both the "customer(s)" and the "rescuer". As has been questioned/pointed to in previous comments, I would have had some really big concerns about fire extention, and building degredation due to the fire. Also there is that little problem of air quality or more to the point - a lack of it.

    That's my rant for this one..... Well done to the guys in the NYPD, but, I still think that I'll stick to firefighting, but would ask that you guys stick to law enforcement.

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    Originally posted by FDNYRR
    Here we go again........First off, 9-11 is "run" by Police, not civilian dispatchers in NYC, meaning, they will (always) give emergency reports to "their-own" first.
    Possibly if Fire were notified at the same time, the PD would not have been near enough to go in -in the first place.
    In NYC I "have-seen" MVA's-Scuba-Collaspes within walking distance of Firehouses not even being aware of the job, yet flooded with PD personnel.

    I also witnesses the remains of PD-ESU Francis LaSalla being removed because while he made a valiant effort on the second floor of a building......he had no idea what the term "Floor-Above" meant. My thoughts are.......the one=up=mans-ship in NYC will never stop. The term, long since quelched by the press, "BATTLE OF THE BADGES" will remain until someone has the nerve to back the politically connected PD off.
    It wouldn't matter if you got the job first. The cops are out in their cars, dressed and on the street. The FD has to get up, get dressed, get on the truck and drive to the job. It just stands to reason that the PD is going to get there first sometimes.

    The "Battle of the Badges" sucks and is unprofessional on both sides of the ball. I once had a NYPD Marine Lt. threaten to throw me off a pier in Jersey City when we were pulling stolen cars out of the Hudson because I had a shirt from my volly co. on. It's nonsense.

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    Angry

    First of all I am a Police Officer, 13 yr Veteran Police Officer and Chief of the Department, I am also a Certified Firefighter/ Paramedic and very Active on our City Department, there should NEVER be a question of right or wrong when lives are at stake, there should be no Damn ego or authority complex by those on wearing ANY BADGE, PATCH OR INSIGNIA BASED ON JOB TITLE,who says those COPS as you put it are any less qualified, Our job in Public service is to SERVE the public, if that means dying in the process then thats what we do, it does not matter if its by bullet, water, fire. I have had several times I arrived first at a scene and put out a car fire with just a 10lb ABC, My Officers have saved drowning babies,performed CPR in the middle of ball fields and on the highway on a Auto Ped, are we trying to take away jobs or do a job that ONLY belongs to the FD, we are doing OUR BEST until other Help arrives, PUBLIC SERVICE IS JUST NOT BASED ON FIRE DEPARTMENTS it is for EVERYONE, CREDIT and GLORY are not reasons to do this job... the citizens ( taxpayers) deserve EVERYONES best no Matter what uniform you wear.

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    We usually don't intervene..but give everyone a break here with this cop bashing. The cops were the first to arrive, they made a few rescues. End of story.

    If you want to complain, move to a department where you can be the firefighter, police officer and EMT all in one. They exist. Go there, now and you can be omniscient. OSHA rules when you've got people screaming for help? Does it matter what uniform you are wearing when someone needs to be saved? Some folks need to lighten up.

    This thread will now be closed. Kudos to the officers...and those on here who chose NOT to criticize them for doing their job....saving lives.

    Happy New Year. Lets try to start off 2003 without bashing every darn thing someone does.

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