1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    59

    Default Volunteer & Career

    I'm curious, how many of you are members of a 100% volunteer department and employed by a 100% career department?If so,are you given a hard time by the members of your department(vollie or career) or union? If so how do you handle it. In my situation,I have no problems at my vollie dept.But at my job I have heard comments over the years and every now and then a rumor about the union taking action,but nothing has ever come from it.Thank's for your input.

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    540

    Default

    Being you are new here. Do not even start with this. It will get taken wrong.

    Do not mention Volly and career in the same sentance.

    It will only cause problems.

    That is all I will say on it.

  3. #3
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    Ladies and gentlemen.............Welcome to the MAIN EVENT!

  4. #4
    MembersZone Subscriber
    jaybird210's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    911 N. Sycamore St. Yep, that's really our address.
    Posts
    2,604

    Default YIKES!

    This thread will work IF it can stay focused. But I bet it won't.....
    Omnis Cedo Domus

    www.hinckleyfd.org

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    59

    Default

    MikeF25, I've been viewing FH.com for a couple of years,but finally decided to post a question that I thought could be handled in a mature fashion. Maybe I'm wrong.I just want to know who's in the same position as I am.This was not meant to be a Vollie VS Career thread. I thought posting on the Volunteer Forum would bring a more positive responce.If this turns nasty, I will be the first one to ask that it be shut down. I thank you for your input,positive or negative.
    Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    PAVolunteer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Dauphin County, PA
    Posts
    1,139

    Default

    All this person is asking is if anyone else run into problems.

    This is not a union issue due to the fact that this person is volunteering at a 100% volunteer house.

    Stay Safe

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jul 1999
    Location
    Flanders, NJ
    Posts
    13,537

    Default

    This was not meant to be a Vollie VS Career thread.
    I realize that you did not mean to cause a donnybrook. However, you could post a question as to which is better, baked or mashed potatoes? Someone will turn it into a career vs. vol. argument.

    It's just better to stay away from this and not give them an easy in.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,682

    Default

    1 question.
    6 Posts in reply.
    1 of those 6 actually addresses the question.

    Therein lies the problem.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  9. #9
    55 Years & Still Rolling
    hwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Glenn Dale Md, Heart of the P.G. County Fire Belt....
    Posts
    10,739

    Post Some Problems Here....

    There are some problems in the Mid-Atlantic area, and, from what I have been able to find out, almost all were a situation where some union brothers take issue with others who volunteer, even when it is in a totally volunteer county. I have not heard of any place where a career union firefighter was harrassed for volunteering, by other volunteers. Virtually all VFDs have a staffing problem at some point, usually daytime/weekdays, and do whatever they have to do to get help, so it wouldn't make sense to try to get rid of someone who would be available when help is scarce. Stay Safe....
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
    In memory of
    Chief Earle W. Woods, 1912 - 1997
    Asst. Chief John R. Woods Sr. 1937 - 2006

    IACOJ Budget Analyst

    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

  10. #10
    Rabble rouser
    Kobersteen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 1999
    Location
    Fairfax County (VA) Fire & Rescue Dept.
    Posts
    529

    Default

    I work in a department that I know has IAFF members of other departments volunteering. We are 100% minimum staffed by career personel.

    The Local that brought about the IAFF resolution to make the volunteer companies of thier jurisdiction 'rival organizations' is Prince Georges County, MD - Local 1619. From what I understand, please correct me if I am mistaken, 1619 is primarily bent out of shape, not over the IAFF members that volunteer for completely volunteer jurisdictions, but those who volunteer for combination systems where the paid personnel are members of an IAFF local ... such as the numerous VFDs inside the service area of Prince Georges County Fire/EMS.

    Quite a hailstorm is gonna fall!
    Member IACOJ - Building crust and full of lust...

    "It's okay to to scared, just don't be chicken." - Clark

  11. #11
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    S.E. Idaho
    Posts
    915

    Default

    Stealth, I see no problem with you posting such a question. Inquiring minds want to know.
    I work for a combination department, we are members of the IAFF.
    I live in a different county with 1 paid department and 12 volunteer. I volunteer in the City I live in. I recieve no problems or dirty comments from anyone, volunteer or paid.


    *Mark
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  12. #12
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default No: we don't have any problems.

    Stealth:
    We have absolutely no problems with any vollie/career issues. It is absolute Utopia here. I think that I have died and gone to Heaven. If Heaven had a fire department, this one is it.
    So, how are things with you?
    You know, I couldn't help but notice that this is the "Volunteer Forum". Your post included the "C" word. Is it a question that should be asked in the "Career/Paid Forum"? Or should it be asked in the "Career-who-work-as-volunteer, paid-on-call,combination department Forum"?
    Vollie/career issues is the "hot" button for some. It gives each side an opportunity to throw their frustrations at the other side. I realize that you want to keep it civil. Unfortunately, it won't. With the first statement that will be misconstrued, will come the chaos.
    I wish you the best. You won't get any trouble from me. I only wish I could help.
    Come visit me at "Dear Crusty Old Jake" when you're done. I'm sure you'll have a few questions. And remember to use a fictitious name.
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  13. #13
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    68

    Default

    My dept is all volunteer. We have some members who are also paid firefighters for other local municipalities. I have never heard of them getting any grief over being a paid FF. The way I see it, that's their job. The whole volunteer service is comprised of people who have other jobs. I know, brilliant deduction ...yet, I suppose the way I see it, how is that situation any different than the baker, or butcher, or insurance salesman who is also a volunteer firefighter. All us vollies have other jobs. So...some of the vollie's other job's happen to be with a paid dept.

    So what? Chances are, that guys skills will be sharper than most. I cannot see a good reason to bust his chops about being a paid FF. Heck, if anything, the guy might get more respect from the rest of the vollies. Sure he gets teased, but it's probably always with a tinge of envy from those doing the teasing.

    As to what the paid guys go through in their paid dept because they are a vollie...I have no idea. I never heard any of the local guys say that they got any grief. Maybe they do, but I never heard of it. As to the whole IAFF gripe that hwoods mentioned, while it was in the news in Maryland, I have not heard anything about it in PA. Besides I cannot follow the logic of the IAFF argument anyway. I tried once....but I got this really bad headache. So I gave up.

    Now, anyone angry about this post take three deep breaths and click your heels twice cause there was no intention to tic anyone off.

    Sheesh.
    If you can keep your head about you, while those around you are losing theirs, then you will be a man my son.

    Rudyard Kipling.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    868

    Default

    Down here on the other side of the planet (Australia), the career guys hate the volunteers on combination stations, the volunteers on totally volunteer stations make life hard for guys who are career with other departments, and if you are ex-career like me then you are really screwed because the career guys reckon you should know better than to volunteer, and the volunteers hate you because when you join you have heaps of knowledge and experience and it upsets their pecking order because it is hard for them to place you at the bottom of the pile (new members aren't supposed to know how to drive apparatus, use scba, use ICS and all that sort of stuff).
    Busy polishing the stacked tips on the deckgun of I.A.C.O.J. Engine#1

    ...and before you ask - YES I have done a Bloody SEARCH!

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    478

    Default

    This is an all VOL. county.The departments that have paid FF are fortunate and we know it Haven't heared of problems on the paid side.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    48

    Post Volunteers Here

    My department is 100% volunteer so of course no way to experience this issue. I would however like to share a couple of observations that concern this issue. There are 22 volunteer departments in my county only one career. Many of the career folks are volunteers in their home town departments which are 100% volunteer. All I have ever heard is these folks are a blessing in their community. Several volunteer Chiefs here are career personnel including a union officer.
    In a bordering county this issue takes an interesting twist. There is a small city, it has a well funded all volunteer municipal department.The municipal dept. protects about 40% of the city. The municipal volunteers who are not compensated monetarily are required to reside in the city. The remainder of the city is protected by a volunteer fire district. The district recieves substantial compensation from the city to provide service. The staff of the district is largely off duty career personnel from large nearby municipalities. They are paid an hourly wage to pull shifts at the volunteer fire district. The pay is substantially below their career department pay scale. The district of course does not require residency. I know of several well qualified volunteers who have applied for positions in the district and all were denied. This has earned this dept. the reputation of being an off duty career good ole boys club. I am not making any judgements here just sharing the circumstances as they exist.

  17. #17
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Tiawah,Oklahoma U.S.A.
    Posts
    8

    Default

    I know of two experiences with this. I am 100% volunteer with a 100% volunteer dept. We have a FF that has been with us for about ten years now. He has been a career FF in another county for about eight years. I have asked him before how his career dept feels about him volunteering, he said that management frowned on it but didn't feel that they could stop what he did off shift, and has continued to volunteer with us.
    Another FF who used to volunteer with us got a job with a career dept that borders our district. He tried to stay with us for awhile after getting the job, but he told me that the rash he got was unbearable from the career guys. That may just have been his way out, but I will say that in county meetings and all, the uppers of this career dept has made clear their feelings of the surrounding vollie depts, and if it comes from the top of the dept, it is only going to run down.

  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber
    NCRSQ751's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 1999
    Location
    Clemmons, NC
    Posts
    199

    Default

    I am a volunteer with a volunteer fire department and a volunteer rescue squad (squads to the technical rescue in my area, not the FD's). We have and have had several members that were full time fire fighters in 100% paid organizations. For the most part there are few issues.

    I'm not sure what the IAFF locals really have to say about it as some Union Officers are volunteers around here.

    There are those in the administration of some of these departments that have flat out told me "I dislike working with volunteers" and that we are considered "security problems" because they don't know us, we use POV's and respond from home a lot. There are also volunteers that say the Career people are trying to stomp out the volunteers.

    Fortunately the majority of the people that work/volunteer in my area don't follow suit with the ignorant.

    There will always be people on both sides of this awful fence (that remains a mystery to me) that think the other side is 'bad' or less trained or stealing jobs or trying to drive out the volunteers or whatever the case may be. We can only do our best to be trained to do what we do the right way and most of all - do it!

    There are bad apples in both groups - that's always going to be the truth. If we can all stay focused on the goal of protecting lives and property we'd all be a lot better off.

    Just my 2 cents..
    Susan Lounsbury
    Winston-Salem Rescue Squad
    Griffith Volunteer FD

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Mar 2000
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    71

    Default

    a person who works for a 100% paid dept. and vollie's for a 100% vollie dept is in a bad spot. You hear it from all the vollies-jealousy turns people bitter very easily-and you hear it from your union brothers. Same as any other occupation. If you are a carpenter what would your union say about building houses for free! Best way out is to leave vollie stuff at the vollie station and work stuff at work.

  20. #20
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Southwest USA
    Posts
    64

    Default

    I started in the Fire Service as a volunteer in a 100% volunteer department over 10 years ago. 4 years ago I decided to change careers and work for a 100% career department in another county and have been volunteering and working as a firefighter ever since and I am an IAFF member to boot! I get harassed a little more at the career department for being a volunteer than being a woman in the department but I don't let it bother me. I use my experience from both departments to benifit the comunities I serve.

    Without the volunteer department in the rural area we live in, we would have no fire protection. This is the reason 14 dedicated people including myself started the volunteer department 11 years ago.

    I think we have proven so far this thread doesn't have to turn ugly, lets try to keep it that way!
    Career/Volunteer, We are all professionals!

  21. #21
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    1,143

    Default

    ArkFirFtr, I think you just rather eloquently explained what the whole two-hatter issue is all about.

  22. #22
    Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    68

    Default

    226 I have to disagree in part. Your assumption is wrong. Not everyone is Jealous of the guy who gets a paid position. Some are simply proud of that firefighter for having achieved his or her dream. Some of us have very satifying careers and going paid will never be an option. But, don't think for an instant that EVERYONE on the Vollie side is jealous or bitter or you will have a false impression which could lead to unwarranted bitterness or anger on your part. As one of your instructors, I was very proud of you the day I learned you had been hired. I know how hard you worked for that paid position and how much it meant to you. I also know the other Dept. Instructors felt the same way and still do. So don't get discouraged by some peoples actions.... and that goes for any of you out there in a similiar situation. There will always be those who try to tear people or things down, ...that's the easy part, ...getting people to work together...that's hard. Basically I'm trying to say that some of us vollies still like you...even if you do give me a hard time on the forums.

    If you can keep your head about you, while those around you are losing theirs, then you will be a man my son.

    Rudyard Kipling.

  23. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber
    ChiefReason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Illinois-where pertnear is close enough!
    Posts
    5,636

    Default Remember your roots.

    I felt like a proud father the day one of my "vollies" went full time with a department. He was first in his class at the academy because of what he learned while one of our members. He remembers and he comes back to see us once in a while. I have many very, very good friends that are full time. We respect each other for what each of us do. Simple as that.
    AND WHEN OVER 880,000 FIREFIGHTERS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE CONSIDERED VOLUNTEERS, YOU HAVE TO ASK; "WHO'S JEALOUS"?
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ga. Power Co./ Juliette Ga
    Posts
    437

    Talking

    Chief Reason,
    I agree with you about the proud father. I am chief of my city fire dept. (volunteer) I feel like a manager of a minor league baseball team when one of our volunteers decides he wants to make this job his fulltime profession. To me there is no greater honor because he has learned the basics from our little fire dept.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register