1. #1
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    Question Construction time for Saulsbury

    Anyone had any problems/concerns with Saulsbury's delivery time? We ordered a new $350,000+ Heavy Rescue on June 3, 2002, had pre-con meeting at plant the first week in Sept. However, we can't get final change order prices or even an ESTIMATED date of construction. My sales guy is great and I think he's banging his head too. Rumor has it that the factory oversold capacity of the plant. E-mail me if you want.

    Thanks

    fire3@deforestfire.com
    Daniel Furseth
    DeForest (WI)
    Safe And Fast Extrication, Inc.
    www.besafeinc.org

    "Extrication is like jazz. Improvisation based on fundamentals"

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    DFurseth,My dept. just took delivery of 2 E-One/Saulsbury Engines.When the contract was signed we where told it would be a 12 month build time. Then came 9-11, and the orders from FDNY and NYPD.That pushed us back to about 15 months.Soon we'll be starting a committee for a rescue and we've been told it's upto 18 month build time.I can tell you that the factory is jammed with orders and they are planning to put an addition on one of the buildings.My guess is you'll see your rig by Christmas, hohoho! Good Luck.
    Lead,Follow or Get out of the way.

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    My volunteer department has speced an E-One Cyclone II Rescue/Pumper with a 50' Teleboom and we contacted Saulsbury for the body work. They gave us pricing and a delivery time of 12 months. After the details were worked out they said 18 months. Two weeks ago they said that the delivery time was 24 months from signing of the contract. Needless to say, E-One might build the whole thing instead.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Angry

    wow .......... for all of you waiting by the time you get your vehicles there may be something else a changin ......... 2 years is a LONG time
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115

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    Something else interesting for you guys. There are currently 10 apparatus sitting at Saulsbury that have been there for 2 1/2 years. Yes thats right, YEARS as they are 1 1/2 years behind schedule. They are headed to 2 different departments in Texas. A number of reasons for the delay such as: Painted the wrong color, lack of attention to detail on them, foam systems that won't make foam, over weight,etc. Interesting huh? Just passing it along.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Larry, Are any of those rigs part of the 9 piece order for Annaville ,Tx.?I saw some of them this summer at the plant. 7, engine /tanker/rescue's and 2 unimogs. During our inspection this fall of our 2 engines, you could see the difference in the 2 production lines.The workmanship on one was far supperior than the other.A problem they need to address.People pick Saulsbury because of the consruction quality, if they start to loose that edge because there rushing trucks thru production, that won't be good for business.
    Lead, Follow or Get Out of the Way.

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    Stealth, Yes in fact that is were some of them are going. The others are going to Seabrook, Tx.

    You can read about it here:

    www.geocities.com/annavillefd/index.html

    When you get there go to the four (4) OOPS! pages. The links are on the bottom of the home page.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    And another side note on this thread. Everyone realizes that there are no more Saulsbury family members working there. The last one left about 6 or 7 months ago. Corporate life isn't the same as the one you and I live in. Annaville, the department waiting for 2 1/2 years for their rigs, was Saulsburys largest customer for 2003 and you see how they get their stuff quick. Just something to think about.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    Sorry Larry,

    I could not pass this one up. Are they not owned and operated by E-One?

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    I understand. Cheap shot that couldn't be passed up. LOL. No harm done. But yes, they are in fact owned by E-One. Now I could tell you something about that ownership thing, but it is not the right time.

    Stay low and be safe.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    I thought that those trucks were Saulsbury’s new high-volume-CAFS-rescue-pumper-tanker-hose/ladder-tender program truck – the latest addition to the Tradition series.

    And the Stewart and Stevensons....Aren’t those just the stainless steel equivalent of the Jackal?


    My department was considering Saulsbury along with a few other manufacturers for our new rigs. Based on what I’ve seen so far, they are probably out of the picture unless they make some major changes soon. I think you can expect to see them loosing their big customers such as the FDNY and NYPD as well, unless there are major changes.

    One might wonder....if they can’t get Annaville’s 9 rigs to make CAF, how are they ever going to manage the 30 going to Los Alamos?


    Dfurseth: All I can say is that you better weigh, test, and inspect your rig up and down and make sure you hold them to the spec before you accept it.

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    I hate to be so picky but I thought I would correct you Larry and shed some light on this question. Saulsbury is not owned by E-One. Both E-One and Saulsbury are owned by Federal Signal Corporation. Federal also owns Bronto Skylift and Superior Fire Apparatus (the Canadian version of E-One). They are all effectlively Known as Federals Fire/Rescue group. But they are all separate companies. They work with each other but they are run separately. No one owns the other.

    Somehow I knew as I kept reading that someone would bring up the mythical relationship of one owns the other. Smeal once apon a time built Pierces aerials but yet Smeal didnt own Pierce or visaversa.But a good ribbing is always funny. I was thinking of it but someone beat me to it.

    Kevin

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    You are correct. Both E-One and Saulsbury are totally owned subsidiaries of Federal Signal. However, Saulsbury is under the management and control of E-One. Sorry, but thats how it is.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    DFurseth I am just wondering why your department didnot look at any of the coumpanies in your home state. SEAGRAVE,Alf,and pierce all manufacturer heavy rescues and have plants in Wisconsin.

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    Truck went to bids with Pierce and Saulsbury. Saulsbury had fewer exeptions to the bid (Stainless steel was the major difference). Also, we currently have a '97 Pierce Saber Rescue/Engine that is rusting to death before our eyes (and we are required to wash our trucks after EVERY run in any rain or snow). ALL the doors started corroding from poor paint prep and the company refuses to stand behind it. Plus, Saulsbury's bid was $4000 less than Pierce with a 10 year paint warranty.

    I sent several e-mails to Marion and ALF asking for a salesperson to contact us as we were looking for bids on a large Heavy Rescue. They never responded back.

    Now, Seagrave. Until FDIC, never knew they made rescues.


    I recieved a "rumor e-mail" that Saulsbury was actually going out of business. ???? News to me. Anyone else?
    Daniel Furseth
    DeForest (WI)
    Safe And Fast Extrication, Inc.
    www.besafeinc.org

    "Extrication is like jazz. Improvisation based on fundamentals"

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    I also recieved a few "rumor" e-mails over the last number of weeks. About Saulsbury going out of business. I would imagine you would see Saulsbury survive, just with another name or a break from E-One management altogether. The answer will be after their dealers meeting next week. I do know they no longer want to do business with F.D.N.Y. because they are too picky. They however, love working with N.Y.P.D. for some reason. A good customer like they have been over the years and this is how they treat them. Go figure, take a great company and damage it so badly in such a a short period of time. So lets recap if I may:

    1) They run off the last Saulsburies working there
    2) Quality goes down hill in every respect
    3) Prices stays high on the market scale
    4) Delivery gets longer, and longer, and longer ...
    5) They run off good, long time customers they should value
    6) Can't keep plant managers

    The corporate world I guess.

    What does everyone think about General Fire Apparatus? LOL. I don't want an answer to that, just throwing something out there for thought.

    Stay low and move it in.
    Last edited by STATION2; 02-01-2003 at 04:37 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    wasnt Phoenix big on Saulsbury in the 80's and 90's? I thought they just took new delivery of a whole new boatload not too long ago...

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    Phoenix recently placed a huge order (something like 50 rigs) with ALF for their new engines. What I've read is that they're going to be mid-engine Eagle chassis, which as far as I can tell is new. Should be interesting to see what they look like.

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    Wink PFD E-one/Saulsbury -ALF

    PFD used e-one hush rear engine pumpers from late 80s and still have a bunch. In 96 they picked up a saulsbury/spartan mid-engine.In 99-2000 they bought 8-16 mid engine e-one/saulsbury units. FFs really like them alot. The recent order with ALF is for 22 with options for a total of 56. They will have 500gallons,40/40 foam,CAFS,1250 HALE pumps,stainless construction,455 CAT engine. I hear the reason for the order was price and saulsbury was going to take a really long time to fill the order. PFD wants something like 4 or 5 pumpers a month for the first 22. Alot of central arizona departments are buying from ALF recently. I hear RURAL/METRO FFs in Scottsdale hate the ALF rigs.
    BTW- someone mentioned here or in another tread that Spartan wasnt building mid or rear engine cabs . THEY ARE. Tempe Arizona just bought some last year,saulsbury mid engines.
    Go to saulsburyfire.com and look at the stealth pupmers.
    Last edited by helicopter722; 02-02-2003 at 04:26 PM.

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    helicopter722:

    Do you have any idea what the PFD's new ALF's will have for CAF Systems? Is Hale doing a custom job on their new system, or are they going to have another fleet of CAF pumpers that don't get used?

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    Default Re: PFD E-one/Saulsbury -ALF

    Originally posted by helicopter722

    BTW- someone mentioned here or in another tread that Spartan wasnt building mid or rear engine cabs . THEY ARE. Tempe Arizona just bought some last year,saulsbury mid engines.
    Go to saulsburyfire.com and look at the stealth pupmers.
    722-

    Didnt Phoenix use some rear pump engines at some point, too?

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    Default PFD PUMPERS

    Pneumax CAFS. My department has had one for five years and never had a problem with it and we use it all the time. I've heard they don't always use it . My buddies over there tell me it's mostly the old guys that don't like it.
    Yes, the Saulsbury trucks are rear pumps. You can see them at there web site. http://www.saulsburyfire.com/12p.html
    The FF's love the E-One Hush cabs. They rolled one a few years back. Firehouse did a story on it. The body went to hell, but the cab was rock solid. E-One may have other problems, but they build the best cabs. Some think PFD is going with ALF because of cost and delivery times. They are not happy about it because most of the FD's out here who have bought ALF's are not happy with them.
    Stay safe.
    Later.
    Last edited by helicopter722; 02-02-2003 at 11:37 PM.

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    Pneumax CAFS: Great system. We're getting one on a new tele-boom.

    Phoenix: Don't forget the few commercial cab pumper they had on International chassis. I am not talking about the Ladder Tenders, but Engine Co.'s. Most of those Co.'s, 3 or 4 if I remember right, REALLY DISLIKED THEM. One Co. actually traded one in at the PFD shops one day for a 7 or 8 year old reserve piece. They would rather have the custom E-One reserve than a new commercial. I can't blame them either.

    Spartan: I was the one who mentioned the Spartan REAR mount engine chassis. It was/is called the Silent Knight. I do know that there is still a mid mount chassis made by Spartan. Tempe, for example, has a midmount as did Phoenix with the last order from Saulsbury. Ever hear the story about the PC-55 and the Engine Co. that caught fire in its PFD station?

    Out of business companies: A neighboring department to my volunteer department bought their first ladder truck one year. While it was being built, literally, the company went out of business. It was completed on the performance bond. They then had upon delivery, the last Maxim aerial built. It was on Ward La France Ambassador chassis. What a P.O.S.

    Rear mounted pumps: Anaheim, Ca. has quite a few of them also.

    Messed Up Possibility: There was talk this week of actually removing the Saulsbury name from the building and apparatus. How is that for a slap in the face.

    General Fire Apparatus: Hmmmmmmm. There is an idea.

    Seagrave: Hmmm, Wouldn't it be funny if they got bought out?

    Just some thoughts.


    Stay low and move it in.
    Last edited by STATION2; 02-03-2003 at 05:41 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

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    I'm not knocking the Pneumax system per se, but the Phoenix systems were designed so that it's not exactly easy to get CAF out of them. Have they used Hale pumps with the Pnuemax systems on all of their CAFS pumpers?

    I'm assuming that the new ALFs will have rear-mount pumps as well?

    "Messed Up Possibility: There was talk this week of actually removing the Saulsbury name from the building and apparatus. How is that for a slap in the face."

    That would probably be doing them a favor. Their family name has already been disgraced enough. As a side note, I mean no offense to the Saulsbury family in any of my comments, especially seeing that they're not even part of the operation any more.

    "General Fire Apparatus: Hmmmmmmm. There is an idea."

    Hehehe. Yes. Only, too bad there isn't a General any more.

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    Default PFD pumper fire?

    NO, I have not heard that story. Would love to hear details.

    Firetimes.com reported awhile back about PFD facing budget cuts of up to 20% (high end of cuts) down to only 6%. Either way Bruno and the boys (and girls) are gonna get hit. They still need help on HAZ-MAT and North end.

    Is Fed-Sig thinking of removing the Saulsbury name ?
    Are they that crazy?
    What next, Ford gonna get rid of the Volvo name ?
    Ford Turbowagon?
    God! I did'nt think anyone was that stupid.

    I thought I read in firehouse back in 97/98 that Spartan was buying Smeal. Anyone remember that?


    Later
    Stay Safe.

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