+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 First ... 3456
  1. #126
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    SOUTHPORT FL
    Posts
    6

    Cool Ok enough SMOKE about this

    Hey Folks just a little note from a 47 year old Fire Chief in FL who has people in the FF1 course and has taken it himself as a refresher and certified FF 1.

    1. This training requirement has been on the books for over 4 years.< IT'S NOT NEW!!!

    2. The way this requirement is written is as follows: If your enrolled, in school, or awating testing it is considered a good faith effort to meet the requirement no fines will be issued.

    3. FF 1 here is the same or better than FF 2 in IL. I was a FF3 W/hazmat tech. in Indiana. Big deal it's not recognized here. This state will not take cert's from other states. You can challenge the State test but you will still test and if you fail FF 2 two times you go back to school period end of story.

    4. These bleeding hearts in your news letter Stan had the chance to take thier training reports to the State Fire Collage and get grandfathered in but thats over as of 6/1/2006.

    5. There are 3 ways to get FF 1 certification which the paper left out by the way.

    1. Formal training at the state fire collage or sub campus.
    2. Training from a state certified instructor I or II
    3. Training signed off by the County Fire or department training officer as long as he is certified FF 1 with instructor 1 or higher and challange the State test.

    Once you are cleared to test by the state fire collage you can take the FF 1 test 500 times till you pass. It's $35 every other test if you fail. I personaly know people who have taken up to 5 times to pass its not an easy test.

    You see anyone who wants to be certified can get certified with the right paperwork. Oh and as of last week there are 5,065 instructor 1's in the northwest part of the state and you have to have FF1 or higher to get inst.1 if that was the next rebuke.

    And by the way yes I was a paid firefighter for 9 years I believe in "formal" training without it you will get caos and freelancing on the fireground and your informal training has no quality control. Handing someone turnout gear and making them climb a ladder does not make them a firefighter. Only carefull proper training makes a true firefighter.

    Also if my fat old puddgy butt can make it through standards they can too. STOP the whining go through it! Many courses are put on by instructors through out the panhandle FREE OF CHARGE!! There is one going on in Bay county right now. So you see Stan the paper is miss leading you into believeing the sky is falling. NOT GONNA HAPPEN!!!

    Learn not to burn!
    Stay Safe
    Chuck

  2. #127
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PA Volunteer View Post
    Hey y'all ... come on up to Pennsylvania!!! Up here, you don't need to know your *** from a hole in the ground to be able to fight fire. As far as I know, there is no rule, anywhere, that mandates what, if any, training that an adult must have to fight fire. Dandy, ain't it? It is also extremely ignorant. It is up to each individual department to require training for its members. When we go to mutual aid calls, I don't know if the guy on the back up line, or the guy on the roof with me has FF XIVMC or if his mom just dropped him off at the station to pick up his first set of gear. It would be nice if you knew that everyone had at least a certain level of training.

    FF's must be trained. FFI & II is certainly a reasonable level. If you have experience, challenge the tests. If you pass, great. If you don't, get ready to go to class.

    How are the paid guys going to take the volunteers seriously if they don't know that they have a certain standard of training?

    Bravo, Florida - let's not just dump this on them though. Hopefully, it will be implemented in a safe and effective manner.

    Oh, and where was the IAFF mentioned?

    Stay Safe
    Just to clarify....Pennsylvania requires all emergency responders to have NIMS and Hazardous materials Awareness / Operations. However, I see where you were coming from on this post. PA has no mandatory training for actual fire supression or rescue activities!! However, I do agree with what Florida is doing. I think it is a great idea. In this day and age the clearing out of the bar room when the alarm sounds for everyone to go upstairs and jump the rig are over. I would personally agree with making FF 1 a mandatory prerequisite for any body that wants to ride the rigs. In PA, FF 2 is nothing more than a test!! So, i dont feel it be necessary. FF 1 is also a test but in recent years they have made a prerequisite of Essentials of Firefighting, Structural burn, Haz Mat Operations, First Aid and CPR just to take the test. FF 2 is just another fancy certificate. Personally i think all firefighters in PA should have...FF 1, PA DOH Vehicle Rescue Technician, EMT or possibly just first responder to be able to even respond on the rig to a scene! Too many people are joining the fire service these days for the wrong reasons and dont want to take the time to learn or train. But yet they want to make sure all their buddies see them in their fancy gear at a scene. Or they take their gear home to impress their girlfriends. And i am sure they tell many many stories about all the fires they have been in. LOL....Unreal. So, what i am trying to say is that by making these prerequisites you will learn real quickly who is doing this becasue they want to and absolutely enjoy it!!

  3. #128
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Train Like Your Life Depends On It - Because It Does!

  4. #129
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    478

    Default

    Chuck you live in Bay county, the travel time and miles is short. There are a lot of Vol FFs that have 1 or more jobs. (NW FL is not known for high pay).
    Daytime FFs work at night, nighttime FFs work days, no vacations in this area. Granted our Vol FFs need training but if you live in a rural area do you need to know high rise fire fighting? We have no hydrants in our area do we need to know how a hydrent is filled, how about just saying a hydrent gives us water and open it all the way. The 220 hr course with first responder a preres-- that's 240 hrs in 1983 FF2 took 280 hrs. Fat or slim, it takes a lot of time that may not be available.

    Myron FF1, instructor1
    Stay Safe ~ The Dragon Still Bites!

  5. #130
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Foggy California
    Posts
    968

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief9chuck View Post
    Hey Folks just a little note from a 47 year old Fire Chief in FL who has people in the FF1 course and has taken it himself as a refresher and certified FF 1.

    1. This training requirement has been on the books for over 4 years.< IT'S NOT NEW!!!
    Chief--just a note but this post has been on the boards for 4 yrs...it's not new either.
    My opinions might coincide with someone of importance's POV... I wouldn't know, since I never bothered to ask. My policy is: "Don't ask, don't care."

    IACOJ--West Coast PITA

  6. #131
    MembersZone Subscriber
    dmleblanc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Not the end of the earth but I can see it from here...
    Posts
    2,318

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chief9chuck View Post
    1. This training requirement has been on the books for over 4 years.< IT'S NOT NEW!!!
    Er, I hate to be the one to point this out, but look at the dates of the original posts on this subject....4 years ago. So at the time this discussion took place it WAS a new requirement. Where did you dig this thread up?
    Chief Dwayne LeBlanc
    Paincourtville Volunteer Fire Department
    Paincourtville, LA

    "I have a dream. It's not a big dream, it's just a little dream. My dream and I hope you don't find this too crazy is that I would like the people of this community to feel that if, God forbid, there were a fire, calling the fire department would actually be a wise thing to do. You can't have people, if their houses are burning down, saying, 'Whatever you do, don't call the fire department!' That would be bad."
    C.D. Bales, "Roxanne"

  7. #132
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Bossier Parrish, Louisiana
    Posts
    10,598

    Default

    Training decisions should be up to the local fire department based on the type of training they need, the resources available for training and the cost.
    I have avocated a modular training system where the locals can teach what applies to thier area as a basic training program. There is no need for a small, rural department to be trainied on tools and equipment they will never purchase in occupancies and situations they will never encounter. Training time for a volunteer is vaulable.. don't waste it. In fact there are situations that a rural firefighter is likely to face that are not even discussed in FF1. Add them as modules since that is information they will actually need and use.

    If a rural firefighter wishes to take the whole course for whatever reason, that's great. That should be encoraged and rewarded but lets be realistic about the time available. Most volunteers will not have the time to meet this requirement, and the reality is that fire protection will suffer, not improve because of it. Most departments don't have the money to pay the fines as they can brely afford gas, a few sets of turnouts now and then and a new tool every once in awhile. These folks, who will be lost because of the requirements, cannot be replaced by paid people because the money is simply not there, unless the state(s), who made this, and similar training requirements has a whole wad of cash stashed away someplace to hire folks for these communties. It simply is not realistic or practical to require this volune of training, especially in areas where the training is distant, infrequent, and inflexible.

    Louisiana has the same type of situation described as Florida. I have a whole pile of certs from other states that mean nothing here, unless I want to pony up some cash and challenge the test, or in some cases, take the time to retake the same course. It's really a ridiculous situation.

  8. #133
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    May 1999
    Location
    Berks County, PA
    Posts
    629

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig
    PA has no mandatory training for actual fire supression or rescue activities!!
    How true. Sad, but very true.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig
    In this day and age the clearing out of the bar room when the alarm sounds for everyone to go upstairs and jump the rig are over.
    Were it that this were true...but unfortunately there are many places around the state where it goes on just like it did 50 years ago...

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig
    FF 1 is also a test but in recent years they have made a prerequisite of Essentials of Firefighting, Structural burn, Haz Mat Operations, First Aid and CPR just to take the test..
    Wrong. The prerequisites for challenging the FF-I test in PA are:

    - HazMat Awareness
    - a 16-hour SFA Local Level Structural Burn Certificate OR Structural burn as the integrated exercise at the end of an Essential Class PROVIDED that you challenge the test at the same site you took the Essentials OR completion of an accredited academy program (like the one run at HACC)
    - the apropriate CPR and First Aid cards

    There is absolutely no reason you can't walk up and challenge FF-I just like you can challenge FF-II, as long as you have these three prerequisites covered. I understand they are revising the applications and standards somewhat to account for the new Delmar program, but I haven't seen the paperwork yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by danzig
    Personally i think all firefighters in PA should have...FF 1, PA DOH Vehicle Rescue Technician, EMT or possibly just first responder to be able to even respond on the rig to a scene!
    I agree there should be a standard, but completion of the 166-hour Delmar program, along with a live burn, followed by successful challenge of the FF-I test would be sufficient for interior qualification, and there should be some program available for "support" personnel who do not intend to be interior qualified (probably the first three Delmar modules and a test that would need to be developed). VRT is completely unnecessary for companies that farm their vehicle rescue out on automatic mutual aid agreements, like we do. I can see an individual jurisdiction requiring it if vehicle rescue is one of their specialties, but anyone else can get their job done effectively with nothing more than VR-Operations level. I'd much rather see a statewide HazMat Operations minimum standard than VRT. EMT or First Responder is a nice to have, but also completely unecessary in areas such as mine where EMS is provided by paid squads separate from the fire service. I'm all for standards, but let's make the statewide standards those that are needed by everyone, and leave the specialized requirements to the local level.

    Back to the original point of the thread...I don't see what Florida is doing as being out of line for volunteers by itself. Most companies in my area are making their recruits go through the 166-hour Delmar now anyway...I've got five guys in different stages of it as I type this. The companies that aren't requiring this mostly are of the "roll out of the bar and onto the trucks" type - and those companies simply need to be stripped of their first due districts by their municipalities in the greater interest of public safety. My statement on Florida assumes, of course, that there is adequate access to the program and a sufficient phase-in period to allow everyone to get up to standard with a good faith effort. I'd like to see the same thing done here...
    Last edited by bobsnyder; 02-02-2007 at 05:03 PM.

  9. #134
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Pensacola, FL USA
    Posts
    3

    Default How the IAFF is involved in the Escambia County Florida Fiasco

    "If your house catches fire, will Escambia County volunteer firefighters save your house? Save you?

    Don't count on it, reports the Escambia County Professional Firefighters Union.

    The union, which is made up of the county's approximately 62 full-time, paid firefighters, is charging that volunteer firefighters and their departments are stealing money from taxpayers, are lacking the necessary training to provide county residents adequate fire protection and are creating a hostile and unsafe working environment for full-time firefighters"


    http://www.inweekly.net/article.asp?artID=4379

    Everyone has been asking how the IAFF was in this, look at the article and IAFF Local 4131 (http://www.iaffl4131.org/) then check out www.ricksblog.biz for further commentary. You may have to go back a few days to find it.
    Last edited by JOHNWAAS; 04-19-2007 at 04:17 PM.

  10. #135
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    The "Lazarus" effect here on FH is amazing.. old threads reappear from the dead, newcomers never check the dates and then they carry on and on as if the thread was started a minute ago. In some cases, the topic and the reason for the thread is moot..
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  11. #136
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Northwest OH
    Posts
    355

    Default

    I dont have a problem with requiring more training. My complaint is states need to start recognizing courses not as a whole, but as the parts. I was certified in SC for interior attack. Resulted in about 116 hours of training. The only requirement to recieve FFI ,after this traning, was to complete a hazmat awareness and vehicle extrication course, then to transition to your FFII you needed the Hazmat ops and then a pump operators class. So now that I moved to ohio, why cant they recognize the training as more than just 116 hours. Ohio did not allow me to challange the FFI test because I was short by 4 hours. They only allowed me to challange the 36 hour Vol FF test. The problem as I see it is in FFI they go over the same basics of hose rolling and different streams and such that they do in the 36 hour class. Accounting for thr full 120 hours. Why cant the state view other states training, and see the items you were trained on, and then require you to take classes that you need training in still ie hazmat and so forth.

  12. #137
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKEYLIKESIT View Post
    Well Lt. Turk I AM obviously a paid Firefighter. However, I became a certified Firefighter II when I WAS A VOLUNTEER.... I think if you asked most volunteers on here, they would agree that being a Firefighter II is not asking too much. In Illinois there is no such thing as a Firefighter I anymore. I would bet that most of my volunteer Brother and Sister Firefighters would like to think they are smart enough to pass Firefighter II....Just like a paid Firefighter.
    firefighterII isnt askin to much its the least a man/women needs to enter a burnin structure, basically what im sayin is if i was to go in on a search i would rather go in with a fire 1-2 trained vs. 36 hour basic train individuals i agree with ya mikey/

  13. #138
    Permanently Removed
    CALFFBOU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,520

    Default

    Wow, a thread thats about 5 years old. Can anyone explain the outcome on this one?

    And....Volunteer Firefighters should be held to the same standard as Reserve Poilce Officers.

  14. #139
    Back In Black
    ChiefKN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The Nice Part of New Jersey
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CALFFBOU View Post
    And....Volunteer Firefighters should be held to the same standard as Reserve Poilce Officers.
    COOL, give me a gun and a breath-a-lyzer!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  15. #140
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    644

    Default

    How do you even find threads this old?

  16. #141
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lexfd5 View Post
    How do you even find threads this old?
    It's the "Star Trek Effect"... a rift in the time/space continuum...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 6 First ... 3456

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register