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Thread: Forcible Entry

  1. #1
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    Question Forcible Entry

    From the outside, with the door shut and locked, how can you tell the difference between rabbeted jambs and stopped jambs? I'd kinda like to know before I test on it, ya know?

    Thanks a lot, Evie


  2. #2
    55 Years & Still Rolling hwoods's Avatar
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    Question Huh???

    Looks like you got me on this one. I don't have a clue, but, may I ask, Test?? I find it hard to believe something like this is on a firefighters test. I could understand seeing a question like this on a carpenters apprenticeship program or something, but in the FD? Here's our deal on doors. Try it. If it opens, you're in. If it is locked, then a rabbit tool or hydra-ram opens it for you. The type of jamb is totally irrelevant. I know, I'm no help here, but my pet peeve is trivia based testing. In our line of work, being able to spot impending failure of truss construction means far more to me than a knowledge of door jambs. Stay Safe....
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  3. #3
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    Evie,
    I have never seen an exterior door that has applied stops, unless somebody has done their own remodeling, a exterior door will always have rabbeted stops. The way you can tell is that the rabbeted jamb will be smooth right up the the door, while a jamb with applied stops will step out just before the door. Be aware that this is only on wood jambs. Most steel jambs are a combination, they are rabeted, but have a non-removable stop. I will see if I can find some pictures to post for clarification. Feel free to email me if you have any questions.

    Chad

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    When sizing up a door First look to see if it swings inward, away from you, or outward and towards you. Residential doors open in and away from you. A residential door that opens out is going to be the basement door, closet or old elevators.
    It may seem obvious but look for what size the hinges are on. If the hinges are not visable on a outward swinging door without a knob look for the latch strike.
    Metal vs wood doesn't matter as much as the type and number of locks.
    The only place rabbeted vs stopped jams is important is on an inward swinging metal jam. It isn't necessary to remove a stop if it is wood a good tool will go right through it or around it. If it is metal you will not be able to remove it. I know some texts tell you to remove the jam stop to better visualize where the latches are or to use a shove tool. If the place is on fire and you need to get in get in. Don't play with the stop.
    The rabbit tool will not wok on a stopped jam. The tool will blow off the stop and not force the door.

    I hope that helps keep it simple. For real good info look to the Tom Brennan FE videos. The years he spent at FDNY has made him the authority of tough forcible entry problems.

  5. #5
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    Let me see if I get this right.

    A rabbited door jamb looks like this:


    And an applied stop looks like this:


    Yes?

    Considering that most outside doors (which we would be forcing entry upon) would open into the dwelling, it seems to me that the question is moot. We force them in the same manner.

    Likewise, if we were opening the door toward us, we would force each door in the same manner. Yes?

    EDIT:
    The only time I thing this would really matter is if you are trying to force a door the wrong way on it's hinges. (Why anyone would try to do that I don't know- it seems like an awful lot of work.)

    I found the rabbited jamb on an outside door and the applied stop on an inside door. The only reason I can think that this would be the case is that the rabbited stop is more weather resistant, as it does not have a joint into which water can seep.
    Last edited by BoneyT; 01-20-2003 at 06:42 PM.

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    I believe that FDNA49 is correct, you will find the rabbeted jamb on exterior doors and stopped jambs on interior finished doors. If the door opens in you can easily see what kind of jamb it is. If this is a written test, there is a good diagram of the difference in the IFSTA fourth edition page 244 figure 8.23.

  7. #7
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    Thanks a lot Y'all really helped

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber AC1503's Avatar
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    Yes, most exterior wooden door jambs are rabbited, but not all of them. The in-swinging exterior doors on my mother's house have wooden jambs with applied stops. They are also over 100 years old.

    Most newer interior doors are pre-hung onto adjustable split jambs. They do not have applied stops. The jamb is made of tonque and grove pieces that slide together and the stop is rabbited into one piece.

    There is no way to tell from the outside if a jamb is stopped or rabbited. If that question is on a test, I would be wary of the test maker's knowledge of building construction and forcible entry techniques.

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