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View Poll Results: WAR vs Iraq

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  • YES

    47 72.31%
  • NO

    15 23.08%
  • NO Opinion

    3 4.62%
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  1. #1
    FIREMAN 1st GRADE E40FDNYL35's Avatar
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    Default WAR...what do you think?

    Last edited by E40FDNYL35; 01-30-2003 at 04:04 PM.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
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  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber Airborne's Avatar
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    All this for OIL I think not. I think that a great many people are going to be surprised when we go over there, oust him from power, and then help Iraq be a free country again in charge of it's own OIL fields and laws.

    Funny the whole reason Russia and Germany don't want to go to war is because of money FING hypocrite.

  3. #3
    Forum Member RspctFrmCalgary's Avatar
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    Chrétien waffling on Iraq, says opposition
    Last Updated Thu, 30 Jan 2003 11:10:38
    OTTAWA - Canada's position on Iraq remains unchanged following U.S. President George Bush's promise to produce evidence of Saddam Hussein's deceptions.


    INDEPTH: Iraq


    Jean Chrétien responds to questions concerning a possible war with Iraq (CP PHOTO)

    Bush warned in his state of the union address Tuesday night that the U.S. is prepared to wage war on Iraq on its own. But Prime Minister Jean Chrétien says Canada continues to insist that the United Nations lead any efforts to disarm Iraq.

    Chrétien says Canada is looking forward to seeing the evidence the Americans will give to the United Nations next week. "We're waiting to see that proof. Good, if they have it. It will be good for the people."

    Canada is also not joining other U.S. allies in declaring Iraq to be in breach of the Security Council's order to disarm. The opposition calls that waffling.

    But Opposition leader Stephen Harper said Canada, in the end, will likely join a U.S. attack, but only after months of debating the issue. "It will not join as a leader but unnoticed at the back of the parade," he said.

    The New Democrats, on the other hand, said Canada shouldn't be a part of a war in Iraq under any circumstances.

    "Drop the sanctions, don't drop the bombs," said MP Alexa McDonough.


    Bill Graham responds to questions concerning Iraq (CP PHOTO)


    Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham meets U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell in Washington on Thursday. "I will bring clearly to him the Canadian position that the best possible way out of this situation is through the Security Council," said Graham.

    The view from the Prime Minister's Office is that the U.S. will use force against Iraq, the only question is how long the Americans will wait.

    With Powell promising to put comprehensive evidence before the UN Security Council next week, Canadian officials suggest the wait won't be long.



    Written by CBC News Online staff

    ******
    I also got this "Say no to war" petition 2 days ago in my email. Check out the countries these people are all from!!!! They just don't get it. Saddam Hussein just finished threatening to "destroy America" if the US attacks Iraq.
    ******

    The US Congress has just authorized the President of the US to go to war against Iraq. Please consider this an urgent request.

    UN Petition for Peace
    Stand for Peace.
    Islam is NOT the Enemy.
    War is NOT the Answer.

    Today we are at a point of imbalance in the world and are moving toward what may be the beginning of a THIRD WORLD WAR.

    If you are against this possibility, the UN is gathering signatures in an effort to avoid a tragic world event.

    Please COPY (rather than Forward) this e-mail in a new message, sign at the end of the list, and send it to all the people whom you know.

    If you receive this list with more than 500 names signed, please send a copy of the message to:

    usa@un.int
    president@whitehouse.gov
    resident@whitehouse.gov>

    1) Suzanne Dathe, Grenoble, France
    2) Laurence COMPARAT, Grenoble, France
    3) Philippe MOTTE, Grenoble, France
    4) Jok FERRAND, Mont St. Martin, France
    5) Emmanuelle PIGNOL, St Martin d'Heres, FRANCE
    6) Marie GAUTHIER, Grenoble, FRANCE
    7) Laurent VESCALO, Grenoble, FRANCE
    8) Mathieu MOY, St Egreve, FRANCE
    9) Bernard BLANCHET, Mont St Martin,FRANCE
    10) Tassadite FAVRIE, Grenoble, FRANCE
    11) Loic GODARD, St Ismier, FRANCE
    12) Benedicte PASCAL, Grenoble, FRANCE
    13) Khedaidja BENATIA, Grenoble, FRANCE
    14) Marie-Therese LLORET, Grenoble,FRANCE
    15) Benoit THEAU, Poitiers, FRANCE
    16) Bruno CONSTANTIN, Poitiers, FRANCE
    17) Christian COGNARD, Poitiers, FRANCE
    18) Robert GARDETTE, Paris, FRANCE
    19) Claude CHEVILLARD, Montpellier, FRANCE
    20) Gilles FREISS, Montpellier, FRANCE
    21) Patrick AUGEREAU, Montpellier, FRANCE
    22) Jean IMBERT, Marseille, FRANCE
    23) Jean-Claude MURAT, Toulouse, France
    24) Anna BASSOLS, Barcelona, Catalonia
    25) Mireia DUNACH, Barcelona, Catalonia
    26) Michel VILLAZ, Grenoble, France
    27) Pages Frederique, Dijon, France
    28) Rodolphe FISCHMEISTER,Chatenay-Malabry, France
    29) Francois BOUTEAU, Paris, France
    30) Patrick PETER, Paris, France
    31) Lorenza RADICI, Paris, France
    32) Monika Siegenthaler, Bern, Switzerland
    33) Mark Philp, Glasgow, Scotland
    34) Tomas Andersson, Stockholm, Sweden
    35) Jonas Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden
    36) Karin Eriksson, Stockholm, Sweden
    37) Ake Ljung, Stockholm, Sweden
    38) Carina Sedlmayer, Stockholm, Sweden
    39) Rebecca Uddman, Stockholm, Sweden
    40) Lena Skog, Stockholm, Sweden
    41) Micael Folke, Stockholm, Sweden
    42) Britt-Marie Folke, Stockholm, Sweden
    43) Birgitta Schuberth, Stockholm, Sweden
    44) Lena Dahl, Stockholm, Sweden
    45) Ebba Karlsson, Stockholm, Sweden
    46) Jessica Carlsson, Vaxjo, Sweden
    47) Sara Blomquist, Vaxjo, Sweden
    48) Magdalena Fosseus, Vaxjo, Sweden
    49) Charlotta Langner, Goteborg, Sweden
    50) Andrea Egedal, Goteborg, Sweden
    51) Lena Persson, Stockholm, Sweden
    52) Magnus Linder, Umea ,Sweden
    53) Petra Olofsson, Umea, Sweden
    54) Caroline Evenbom, Vaxjo, Sweden
    55) Asa Peterson, Grimes, Sweden
    56) Jessica Bjork, Grimes, Sweden
    57) Linda Ahlbom Goteborg, Sweden
    58) Jenny Forsman, Boras, Sweden
    59) Nina Gunnarson, Kinna, Sweden
    60) Andrew Harrison, New Zealand
    61) Bryre Murphy, New Zealand
    62) Claire Lugton, New Zealand
    63) Sarah Thornton, New Zealand
    64) Rachel Eade, New Zealand
    65) Magnus Hjert, London, UK
    67) Madeleine Stamvik, Hurley, UK
    68) Susanne Nowlan, Vermont, USA
    69) Lotta Svenby, Malmoe, Sweden
    70) Adina Giselsson, Malmoe, Sweden
    71) Anders Kullman, Stockholm, Sweden
    72) Rebecka Swane, Stockholm, Sweden
    73) Jens Venge, Stockholm, Sweden
    74) Catharina Ekdahl, Stockholm, Sweden
    75) Nina Fylkegard, Stockholm, Sweden
    76) Therese Stedman, Malmoe, Sweden
    77) Jannica Lund, Stockholm, Sweden
    78) Douglas Bratt
    79) Mats Lofstrom, Stockholm, Sweden
    80) Li Lindstrom, Sweden
    81) Ursula Mueller, Sweden
    82) Marianne Komstadius, Stockholm, Sweden
    83) Peter Thyselius, Stockholm, Sweden
    84) Gonzalo Oviedo, Quito, Ecuador
    85) Amalia Romeo, Gland, Switzerland
    86) Margarita Restrepo, Gland, Switzerland
    87) Eliane Ruster, Crans p.C., Switzerland
    88) Jennifer Bischoff-Elder, Hong Kong
    89) Azita Lashgari, Beirut, Lebanon
    90) Khashayar Ostovany, New York, USA
    91) Lisa L Miller, Reno NV
    92) Danielle Avazian, Los Angeles, CA
    93) Sara Risher,Los Angeles,Ca.
    94) Melanie London, New York, NY
    95) Susan Brownstein , Los Angeles, CA
    96) Steven Raspa, San Francisco, CA
    97) Margot Duane, Ross, CA
    98) Natasha Darnall, Los Angeles, CA
    99) Candace Brower, Evanston, IL
    100) James Kjelland, Evanston, IL
    101) Michael Jampole, Beach Park, IL, USA
    102) Diane Willis, Wilmette, IL, USA
    103) Sharri Russell, Roanoke, VA, USA
    104) Faye Cooley, Roanoke, VA, USA
    105) Celeste Thompson, Round Rock, TX, USA
    106) Sherry Stang, Pflugerville, TX, USA
    107) Amy J. Singer, Pflugerville, TX USA
    108) Milissa Bowen, Austin, TX USA
    109) Michelle Jozwiak, Brenham, TX USA
    110) Mary Orsted, College Station, TX USA
    111) Janet Gardner, Dallas, TX USA
    112) Marilyn Hollingsworth, Dallas, TX USA
    113) Nancy Shamblin, Garland. TX USA
    114) K. M. Mullen, Houston, TX - USA
    115) Noreen Tolman, Houston, Texas - USA
    116) Laurie Sobolewski, Warren, MI
    117) Kellie Sisson Snider, Irving Texas
    118) Carol Currie, Garland, Garland Texas
    119) John Snyder, Garland, TX USA
    120) Elaine Hannan, South Africa
    121) Jayne Howes, South Africa
    122) Diane Barnes, Akron, Ohio
    123) Melanie Dass Moodley, Durban, South Africa
    124) Imma Merino, Barcelona, Catalonia
    125) Toni Vinas, Barcelona, Catalonia
    126) Marc Alfaro, Barcelona, Catalonia
    127) Manel Saperas, Barcelona, Catalonia
    128) Jordi Ribas Izquierdo, Catalonia
    129) Naiana Lacorte Rodes, Catalonia
    130) Joan Vitoria i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia
    131) Jordi Paris i Romia, Barcelona,Catalonia
    131) Marta Truno i Salvado, Barcelona,Catalonia
    132) Jordi Lagares Roset, Barcelona,Catalonia
    133) Josep Puig Vidal, Barcelona,Catalonia
    134) Marta Juanola i Codina, Barcelona,Catalonia
    135) Manel de la Fuente i Colino,Barcelona,Catalonia
    136) Gemma Belluda i Ventura, Barcelona,Catalonia
    137) Victor Belluda i Ventur, Barcelona,Catalonia
    138) MaAntonia Balletbo, Barcelona, Spain
    139) Mireia Masdevall Llorens, Barcelona,Spain
    140) Clara Planas, Barcelona, Spain
    141) Fernando Labastida Gual, Barcelona,Spain
    142) Cristina Vacarisas, Barcelona, Spain
    143) Enric Llarch i Poyo, Barcelona, Catalonia
    144) Rosa Escoriza Valencia, Barcelona,Catalonia
    145) Silvia Jimenez, Barcelona, Catalonia
    146) Maria Clarella, Barcelona, Catalonia
    147) Angels Guimera, Barcelona, Catalonia
    148) M.Carmen Ruiz Fernandez, Barcelona,Catalonia
    149) Rufi Cerdan Heredia, Barcelona,Catalonia
    150) M. Teresa Vilajeliu Roig, Barcelona,Catalonia
    151) Rafel LLussa, Girona, Catalonia,Spain
    152) Mariangels Gallego Ribo, Gelida,Catalonia
    153) Jordi Cortadella, Gelida, Catalonia
    154) Pere Botella, Barcelona, Catalonia(Spain)
    155) Josefina Auladell Baulenas, Catalunya(Spain)
    156) Empar Escoin Carceller, Catalunya(Spain)
    157) Elisa Pla Soler, Catalunya (Spain)
    158) Paz Morillo Bosch, Catalunya (Spain)
    159) Cristina Bosch Moreno, Madrid (Spain)
    160) Marta Puertolas, Barcelona (Spain)
    161) Elisa del Pino (Madrid) Spain
    162) Joaquin Rivera (Madrid) Spain
    163) Carmen Barral (Madrid) Spain
    164) Carmen del Pino (Madrid) Spain
    165) Asuncion del Pino (Madrid) Spain
    166) Francesca Mostardini (Milano) Italy
    167) Federico Bonadeo (Milano) Italy
    168) Jo Burchell (Dorset) England
    169) Matt Hinds (London) England
    170) Vladimir Eatwell (London) England
    171) Hannah Dawson (Cambridge) England
    172) Helen Peeks (London) England
    173) Judit Child (St. John) U.S.V.I
    174) Kathaleen (Texas) U.S.A.
    175) Deana Blanch (Texas) U.S.A
    176) Erin Flaherty Vancouver, Canada
    177) Holly Flaherty Daegu, South Korea
    178) Meredith J. Hayes, Montreal, Canada
    179) Jeffrey Murray Gougeon, Seoul, South Korea)
    180) Chris Gougeon, Montreal, Canada
    190) Rob Shallhorn, Montreal, Canada
    191) Marc Edmunds, London, England
    192) Marie-Eve Duffy,Montreal, Canada
    193) Katie Ewald, Montreal, Canada
    194) Christine Kjellberg, Hosle, Norway
    195) Siri B. Rom, Stabekk, Norway
    196) Halvard A. Mxgster, Norway
    197) Tor Grxnvik, Norway
    198) Knut Grxnvik, Norway
    200) Kai-Rune Myhrer, Norway
    201) Hilde R. Myhrer
    204) Kari Strand, Norway
    205) Boye Welde, Norway
    206) Kristin Rygg, Norway
    207) Nils Holger Petersen, Denmark
    208) Bernhard F. Scholz, Netherlands/Germany
    209) Harald Fricke, Fribourg/Switzerland
    210) Agnes Mueller (South Carolina), U.S.A
    211) Azade Seyhan (Pennsylvania), U.S.A.
    212) Elif Denel (Pennsylvania), U.S.A
    213) Fulya Kocak, Ankara, Turkey
    214) Michaela Dlouhá, Brno, Czech Republic
    215) Laura Fornasiero, Abano Terme (Pd), Italy
    216) Tara Cole, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
    217) Keelin McNab, Hamilton, Ontario CANADA
    218) Brandon McNab, Thunder Bay, Ontario Canada
    219) Nate Zahn, T. Bay, Ontario Canada
    220) Stephen Palmateer, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
    221) John Thaler, Sackville, New Brunswick, Canada
    222) Gregory Taves, Wellesley, Ontario Canada
    223) Lindsay Doehn, Tavistock, Ontario Canada
    224) Thom Adamson, Oakville, Ontario Canada
    225) Matt Doehn, Tavistock, Ontario Canada
    226) Deanne Reist, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
    227) Andrew Jones, Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
    228) David Huber, New Dundee, Ontario, Canada
    229) Krystal King, Petersburg, Ontario, Canada
    230) Cynthia Black, Petersburg, Ontario, Canada
    231) Melissa Roswell, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
    232) Sarah de Jong, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada
    233) Jason Dubbeldam, Oakville, Ontario, Canada
    234) Brian Dubbeldam, Rupert, Quebec,Canada
    235) Donna Ozarko, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    236) Nicole Smith, Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    237) Guy Fortier, Sydenham, Ontario, Canada
    238) Kevin Wight, Kingston, Ontario, Canada
    *****

    I took the last name 239 off as it was the person that sent it to me.

    All I can say is "how quickly they forget" ..... be it September 11th they are forgetting or the world wars fought and won for freedom and democracy. Sorry for the super long post .... just thought I'd show what some Canadians think of it all, but I'll tell you right now, we don't all have the same opinions as are expressed in the above news article and petition!!!!!
    September 11th - Never Forget

    I respect firefighters and emergency workers worldwide. Thank you for what you do.

    Sheri
    IACOJ CRUSTY CONVENTION CHAIR
    Honorary Flatlander

    RAY WAS HERE FIRST

  4. #4
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    I think that we will be going to war, and very soon, and when we do I believe that it will be a war like no other, it will be dirty, and there will be some serious things (aka chemical, biological bombs, etc.) flying around, and unfortunately a lot of people will probably die. I also think that Sadaam will send some people over here (suicide bombers, etc.) to attack us on our own turf....not pretty....not at all...
    -Kris

  5. #5
    Senior Member Dalmatian90's Avatar
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    A war like any other? Yes.

    But that doesn't mean nuclear, chemical, biological -- been there, done that all before.

    I'm expecting a very quick take down of the command & control structure. We've had 10 years of operating in a low-level war there to plan this, that first round is going to do a lot of damage to C&C.

    Iraqi, like many autocratic gov'ts, use very centralized systems to issue orders. Not much autonomy.

    You're not looking at a lot of idealouge zealots that would then act on their own. Look at the language of Iraq -- they don't speak much of a holy war, 'cause fostering strong religous fever would endanger their gov't as well.

    Not many people are going to bat for Sadam. Nor is there particulary strong "national" sense in Iraq, indeed the ruling class all comes from a very small area, I guess the equivelant of a large American county.

    So you're not up against a strong sense of nation, politics, or religion to break. Cut off the head -- Saddam & his small cadre -- and their ability & desire to carry organized attacks will go poof.

    The two largest dangers is in the chaos as the existing Iraqi regime collapses (while Special & Other Forces are still working to gain control of all potential WMD stockpiles). The lesser worry is Iran, but I believe they will remain neutral -- as much as the U.S. is no friend of theirs, Iraq is neither. A hostile Iran would mean a hostile flank along the entire eastern Persian Gulf, and that would make naval operations difficult.

  6. #6
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    Don't worry Respect, there are about that many US citizens who don't want us to go do the right thing, either.

    When this is all said and done (probably not in the too distance future), there will be a long list of countries and people who will be apologizing to our great President.

    It's funny, but alot of the countries who owe us their very existence (France comes to mind, Gernmany, so does Kuwait, and yes, Canada owes us a little, too) are against us on this. Like I said, Cheney ought to go over to France and remind them of what all of those little white crosses mean.

  7. #7
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Let us not forget that the burden of proof is on Saddam, not President Bush. Per UN resolution 1441 he must prove he doesn't have WMD. I predict war on approximately Feb 20.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  8. #8
    Forum Member fflynn17's Avatar
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    Nothing that Bush promised after 9/11 has occurred. We have done nothing about any of the "Axis of Evil" countries that have attacked our country, or supported those that did. The US has become a paper tiger, following "warnings", not with action, but with more warnings. By our inactions, we have not frightened those that threaten us, we have encouraged them.
    Today, the US is the only superpower, yet we are held hostage by a motley group of barbarians. Iraq, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, and
    Iran are our mortal enemies.
    While Iraq plays 3-card monte with its WMD, the US is busy working on a "consensus" from the UN, which recognizes as valid the very governments that threaten the US.

    War yes or no.

    YES
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

  9. #9
    MembersZone Subscriber Airborne's Avatar
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    Flyn,

    I have to disagree with you a little. While we have disturbed the hornet’s nest, we also have taken their nest and handed it over to the people of Afghanistan. Allot of the terrorist has Bush stated are now in prison or dead. Every day countries are uncovering plots, this is because of information that is gathered from the terrorist that are captured.

    Allot of people will disagree with me, but you know what I believe that Bin Laden is dead. He is a smart man; never make the mistake of thinking that he is not. A smart man would know that the time to put it to the US by definitive proof to show that he is alive has come and gone. In other words he would have made sure that we knew he was alive. Look at all the tapes that we have found of him that where all right after 9/11. The man loves the camera, so why now are there none, because it is hard to make tapes when you are six feet under. There maybe be someone that is acting as him giving out orders but it is not Bin Laden IMHO.

    This is going to take time, I'm not sure why people think that this was only going to take a few months and then we would be done and there would never be terrorist in the world again. This is a war that may take a life time or longer. But IMHO it is allot better then sitting on our hands trying to pretend that they are not there. Slick Wiley may have been able to do it; by myself I never could and never will. It is going to take time, and some Americans are going to pay the price. I'm ready and willing when my unit gets called to go and do my part. Infact I'm betting on the fact that I will not even get the chance to Finnish FF1 class before that happens. And in my job there is not alot of Life expectance out in the field. Combat Engineer!

  10. #10
    Senior Member raven911's Avatar
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    I don't think a lot of people realize this big mess is just a continuation of what was started 2000 years ago. The two sides are eventually going to fight, either in Iraq or somplace else. The same goes for North Korea, which is just as big, if not worse, a problem.
    IACOJ Military Division
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  11. #11
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    While Iraq plays 3-card monte with its WMD, the US is busy working on a "consensus" from the UN, which recognizes as valid the very governments that threaten the US.
    I don't agree with what you are saying, but I understand why you are saying it.

    As far as this consensus stuff...remember, we are being forced to play the UN game by liberal US haters like your "beloved" Senator Clinton. Our big mistake was going to the UN at all.

    Airborne, thanks for what you do, bro.

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    Arrow Just a little...

    ...economic class.
    The problem with the "Its for OIL" theory is blown out of the water by this. A oil embargo against the second richest oil reserve means steeper barrel prices, Correct? A free Iraqi people (whom are being starved by a dictator) will create a competative market in the oil industry, thereby lowering barrel costs - VOILA cheaper gas prices! Who is this new market going to compete against? Answer: the "big oil" companies here in America and around the world. The oil industry is going to have to be more competitive to stay alive because Iraq does have the second largest oil reserve known.

    The ONLY way this would enrich "big oil" would be for President Bush to allow them to take over the oil in Iraq, which I don't see him doing or the Iraqi people letting happen.

    This war will be about ousting a despot of a leader who has used weapons of mass destruction on his own people. I would wager that Saddam's death won't be bitterly grieved by his citizens.

  13. #13
    Forum Member fflynn17's Avatar
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    George:
    "liberal US haters like your "beloved" Senator Clinton."

    I am in 100% agreement in that many of our "leaders" are de facto "liberal US haters". I am embarrased to be represented by such an individual as Ms. Clinton.

    "Our big mistake was going to the UN at all. " I absolutely agree with this also, we don't need the UN's (or anyone's) approval to protect our country and its citizens.

    Airborne: Yes, we have made some inroads into the problem in afghanistan, but Bush stated that we would also deal with the "evil nations" that supported Bin Laden and the Taliban. This is what I was talking about, we have not begun this fight.
    I second George's thank you to all who serve in the military.
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber MalahatTwo7's Avatar
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    Default THIS IS FROM THE ONLINE PAPER 31 JAN 03

    A second UN resolution authorizing war on Iraq not needed.

    JOHN WARD Canadian Press Friday, January 31, 2003

    CREDIT: (CP/Tom Hanson)

    Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham responds to questions concerning a possible war with Iraq during Question Period in the House of Commons, Friday. (CP/Tom Hanson)

    OTTAWA (CP) - A second UN Security Council resolution isn't needed to authorize the use of force against Iraq, Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham said Friday, just a day after Prime Minister Jean Chretien made the same comment.

    But Graham, who had hedged on the second resolution question for most of the week, said many would like to see such a move, even if it's not absolutely essential. "Most people are working toward another resolution, there's no question of that," he said outside the Commons.

    "That's where the United States is, that's where the Europeans are, that's where I'm sure (British Prime Minister Tony) Blair (is) - I can't predict what he's going to say to the president - that's my understanding."

    Blair met U.S. President George W. Bush on Friday and said afterwards that council resolution 1441, passed last fall, was a last warning to Saddam Hussein of Iraq.

    "When we went down the UN route, we passed resolution 1441, we said very clearly that Saddam had what we said was a final opportunity to disarm and he had to co-operate fully with the UN weapons inspectors," Blair said.

    He said Iraq is not co-operating and the UN should come together "and make it absolutely clear that this is unacceptable."

    Bush said a second resolution would be welcome if it is another signal that the world is determined to have Iraq disarm.

    But, he added, he doesn't want the process dragged out.

    "This is a matter of weeks not months," he said. "Any attempt to drag the process out for months will be resisted by the United States."

    Graham, who spoke with U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell in Washington on Thursday, said Canada and the United States are not divided.

    "There's no distinction between American policy and our own on the respect for and the need for the UN process."

    He said the Security Council must decide whether Iraq has flouted resolution 1441, which demands full co-operation with UN weapons inspectors.

    However, it can act without a formal resolution.

    "How it does that, by resolution, by indication, by declaration, there are many ways it can indicate how it's going to handle this matter."

    Graham denied that he was at odds with Chretien over a second resolution.

    "The prime minister said it is not necessary, but the prime minister also, if you look at the context of his earlier comments and all my comments. . .is that we have to work with the Security Council and we have to work within the framework of resolution 1441."

    Graham said he wants to hear what Powell has to say to the council next Wednesday and what Hans Blix, the chief arms inspector says when he reports Feb. 14.

    Only than can the council make a decision and that would let Canada decide its next move.

    In the event that Canada decides not to go along with an American attack, some worry that Washington might retaliate with tough border measures that would hurt the Canadian economy.

    Graham said he doesn't see a link.

    "I don't believe necessarily that we'll be punished for this policy or that policy," he said. "The border is something that is to our mutual benefit. We have mutual security concerns and we have mutual prosperity concerns for our citizens."

    © Copyright 2003 The Canadian Press


    This would be the second article from the PM that suggests he is willing to augment Coalition forces with Canadian resources (there has not been any finalization of what "resources" means yet). For the main point of this discussion, I actually hope it does not come to that - I have already been to that part of the world in the recent past courtesy of the Navy. I know that next time is "for keeps", but if there is a better way, I would be happy to find it.

    HOWEVER, if it does come to use of deadly force, then so be it, and if needed I will once again find myself in a foreign place, sun blistering down on me and wondering "OOOOhhhhhh why am I here?" And then I will think of my two young boys, and I will remember.
    If you don't do it RIGHT today, when will you have time to do it over? (Hall of Fame basketball player/coach John Wooden)

    "I may be slow, but my work is poor." Chief Dave Balding, MVFD

    "Its not Rocket Science. Just use a LITTLE imagination." (Me)

    Get it up. Get it on. Get it done!

    impossible solved cotidie. miracles postulo viginti - quattuor hora animadverto

    IACOJ member: Cheers, Play safe y'all.

  15. #15
    MembersZone Subscriber Airborne's Avatar
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    Well stated. Some times that things that we do are not for ourselves or for the here and now. Sometimes it is for things much bigger and more important.

  16. #16
    MembersZone Subscriber TailboardJockey's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    I say YES to removing Saddam. We should also give each of these "Not In Our Name" clowns a one-way ticket to Baghdad so they can be part of the "Human Shield".
    Living the dream...

  17. #17
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Default

    A lot of good points here. Hope mine add something to this...

    First, Americans are a little too forgiving and forgetful. On 9/12/01, you couldn't have had enough plane tickets to basic training. "Grr," people said. "We will get these mean people who came into our house and did this."

    flash ahead to one year later

    "Grr," people say. "We cannot interfere with another country's government. This is all over oil!"

    What the hell is going on here?

    Second, Americans only trust hindsight. Anyone who purports to have foresight must have an ulterior motive for political or financial gain.

    To wit, 9/12/01: "Grr," people said. "Clinton was too easy on Osama after the embassy bombings. He should have seen this coming."

    Now 2/4/03: "Grr," people say. "There's no proof Saddam is a threat. We have no justification to attack."

    Finally, Americans seem to be more worried about protecting armed & armored soldiers and tanks than about protecting their own children. Soldiers have made the noble decision to risk their lives to protect the rest of us. They have been very well trained and very well equipped to do that. They are expecting hostilities when they are on foreign soil, and they are prepared to respond accordingly.

    THAT'S WHAT THE GO***MN MILITARY IS FOR!!!!!

    My little girl is almost four. Right now she's at day care coloring or practicing her letters. A hijacked jetliner could conceivably veer off course and land right on her room. She would not have a chance.

    Conversely, our personnel abroad have radar to warn them of incoming ordnance and/or aircraft. They got stuff to shoot it down with. They have bunkers to scramble into when the air raid warning comes in. They have helmets on their heads, goggles on their eyes, and flak jackets on their chests.

    Yet somehow the bleeding hearts think those soldiers should be kept in a warm, dust-free area while anybody who goes to NY, LA, Chicago, etc. should be taking their lives into their own hands to do so.

    Don't get me wrong. Airborne and all the other heroes in various shades of green and blue, I hope and pray that you all come home without a scratch if this thing comes to blows. But you accept this risk on our behalf so that we can lay our little heads down at night and not have to keep one eye open.

    To sum up:

    1. I haven't forgotten what was done to us.
    2. Anyone who thinks the forces of evil wouldn't do it again is nucking futs.
    3. Soldiers signed up for just this sort of thing. Let's let them do their thing.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  18. #18
    MembersZone Subscriber Airborne's Avatar
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    I think that you said it well. I'm tired of the liberals and anyone else using me as a political point to not go to war. I joined the military with the understanding that some day I may be called to make a sacrifice to protect this country. I did it of my own free will, and I have reenlist many times each time known that I was again putting my self in a position that I may be asked to go to war. I do it because I feel that we need to protect what we have.

    It makes me sick all the time when I here these pansy asses talking about how we should not go to war what about our soldiers. Who are you going to send then, the girl scouts? You are right we are the best-trained and best-equipped military that this world has ever seen.

  19. #19
    District Chief distchief60b's Avatar
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    Post Go Get The #$%^&*@

    Well...since everyone is entitled to opinions.....here I go...

    Yes...go and get him and get Bin Laden also. I am certain that we know where they both are and it seems time to approve a "covert" mission to take care of them both. This will certainly not end terrorism but will suffice to knock it off its feet and give us time to further evaluate the cells and eliminate each one as we find it. Starting from the top and going down may be the answer.

    If I was not so OLD, I would enlist and be a part. But for now I will have to stay home and protect this country in my job as a firefighter.

    General Schwarzcoff said it best several months ago if they should have continued until they got Hussein in the Gulf War. His reply, "Well....you know what they say about hind sight and I was only doing as I was told."
    09-11 .. 343 "All Gave Some..Some Gave ALL" God Bless..R.I.P.
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    IACOJ Minister of Southern Comfort
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    The comments, opinions, and positions expressed here are mine. They are expressed respectfully, in the spirit of safety and progress. They do not reflect the opinions or positions of my employer or my department.

  20. #20
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Default Long post warning

    I find it interesting that there are so many people preaching the policy of "containment" of Sadaam. That neither we nor our allies are in danger.

    Most people have heard the assertion that if we don't understand history, we are doomed to repeat it. Let's look back about 65 years or so.

    Recognizing that 1938 Europe was fast developing into a powderkeg, British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain instituted a foreign policy that became referred to as a policy of appeasement.

    Chamberlain believed that Germany had been badly treated by the Allies after it was defeated in the First World War. He therefore thought that the German government had genuine grievances and that these needed to be addressed. He also thought that by agreeing to some of the demands being made by Adolf Hitler of Germany and Benito Mussolini of Italy, he could avoid a European war.

    In February, 1938, Adolf Hitler invited the Austrian Chancellor, to meet him at Berchtesgarden. Hitler demanded concessions for the Austrian Nazi Party. The Austrian Chancellor refused and after resigning was replaced by the leader of the Austrian Nazi Party. On 13th March, the new Chancellor invited the German Army to occupy Austria and proclaimed union with Germany. This union was in direct violation of the Treaty of Versailles, which ended WW I. Some members of the House of Commons now called on Chamberlain to take action against Adolf Hitler and his Nazi government.

    On 29th September, 1938, Chamberlain, Adolf Hitler, Edouard Daladier and Benito Mussolini signed the Munich Agreement which transferred to Germany the Sudetenland, a fortified frontier region that contained a large German-speaking population. Another example of Chamberlains policy of appeasement.

    When Eduard Benes, Czechoslovakia's head of state, who had not been invited to Munich, protested at this decision, Neville Chamberlain told him that Britain would be unwilling to go to war over the issue of the Sudetenland.

    In March, 1939, the German Army seized the rest of Czechoslovakia. In taking this action Adolf Hitler had broken the Munich Agreement. Chamberlain now realized that Hitler could not be trusted and his appeasement policy now came to an end. After the invasion of Poland, Chamberlain was forced to declare war on Germany, and the aforementioned powderkeg blew up.

    This was all following one of the most intensive military buildups in the modern history by the German government. Violation after violation of nearly every treaty Hitler ever signed as well as those signed following WW I, resulted in millions of deaths at the hand of one of history's most acknowledged barbarians.

    We can't afford to wait for the "smoking gun" that some have wanted to be a requirement for military action. For a gun to smoke, it has to have been fired. That seems a lot like the results from a "policy of appeasement". If we pursue this "policy of containment or appeasement" as the case may be and this conflict is averted, what will be the true cost down the road not only to our allies, but to our kids?

    Chamberlain was quoted as saying, 'Peace for our time' after the Munich Agreement was signed. At what cost of life, both civilian and military?

    Sadaam and his cohorts needs to be dealt with, and with some degree of finality.

    We have troops in place, they are well trained, well equipped, and their morale is high. All that is left is to allow them to do what they have been trained to do.
    Steve Gallagher
    IACOJ BOT
    ----------------------------
    "I don't apologize for anything. When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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