1. #1
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    Default Another Maker Bought !

    So, any opinions on Seagrave being bought by Pierce?
    Just throwing it out there.


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    In 10-15 years it will be the big three. Pierce, ALF and probably E-One. One can see the foundations being laid now by the 3 parent corporations. Pierce and E-ONE didn't have a choice once Mercedes- Benz made the committment buying Ford,Freightliner/ALF and the rest of the emergency equipment companies that put them back in business. Look at what Fed. Sig bought to keep up and Pierce will do the same thing to retain their market share.
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    Hey, You know what they say. If you can't beat your competiton, buy them !!! It's done wonders for Medtec and American Fire and Rescue. There still junk.

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    Does anybody have an official press release or newspaper article about this? Not to doubt this story, but it's not on the Oshkosh website, it's not on the Pierce website, it's not on the Seagrave website, and I can't find any newspaper articles anywhere about it. You'd think that if this indeed was happening, it'd be in print SOMEWHERE.

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    I will believe it when I see the press relese till it is just a rumor
    Last edited by nrz2334; 02-05-2003 at 12:52 AM.

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    Good question about the press release. Right now, all I can say is that it has been confirmed by numerous people within the national fire apparatus builder community. I guess when Pierce/Oshkosh have their ducks in a row with notifications, they'll make an announcement. Until then, yeah, go ahead a consider it a rumor. LOL.

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    I recived and email from a guy that work at the factory who is incharge of a department at the factory and he said that it is only a rumor.....

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    Must be a rumor, what would Pierce possibly have to gain by buying them out?

    If it is happening, it will be hush-hush until it is finalized and I would bet the employees and the dealerships will be the LAST to find out.

    Stranger things have happened!

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    ff43065 Assure retention of market share.
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    Buying companies does not get you market share. Look at ALF. Already closed two of the companies they bought and I do not think they are setting the world on fire. Just means less competition and lets some of the smaller builders never heard of before get a piece of the action.

    Is Pierce splitting into two different companies? I see the Contender (Pretender Series) is doing their own marketing, web site, etc. Maybe they realized the Contender is a cheap crap truck and should not ever have been affiliated with the Pierce name. MMMM.....

    What would they do with Seagrave? Expand the line like the Nova Quintech? And just change the name?

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    Originally posted by ff43065
    Must be a rumor, what would Pierce possibly have to gain by buying them out?
    Stainless steel construction.
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    If this is true, and it is a big "if", I don't believe that Pierce would be purchasing Seagrave to "protect market share" or "buying-out the competition". Pierce does approx. 1,200 - 1,300 per year, while Seagrave is around the 200 - 250 figure. So I don't think that would be the reason. As for the "stainless steel" point of view, Pierce also offers a stainless steel body. It is available in almost all product lines. The only thing Seagrave offers in stainless that Pierce does not is the cab. I really don't thing Appleton would be going after Seagrave just for this. The only resons that I can come up with would be to get into NYC and/or to aquire a true low-profile aerial chassis.

    Just my .02 worth. Let's all stay tuned, as I am sure we'll hear more about this.

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    Originally posted by grc063
    or to aquire a true low-profile aerial chassis.
    I would imagine it would be cheaper for them to engineer one than to buy one. Although if they bought it, then it is available sooner.
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    How about Oshkosh wanting FWD chassis or put htem out of business?

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    Originally posted by grc063
    As for the "stainless steel" point of view, Pierce also offers a stainless steel body. It is available in almost all product lines. The only thing Seagrave offers in stainless that Pierce does not is the cab.
    Ask Pierce to build a Pumper with rescue style compartments in stainless. They don't do it, trust me, they lost our bid because of it. We all know that the pumper/rescue market is hot right now, so don't discount the idea just yet.
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    The fact that the Pierce office says that they did not or are not buying Seagrave means exacylt SQUAT.

    It could be they don't want to say anything until every last detail and all of the paperwork is in place.

    Or could it be that Pierce is not buing them Oshkosh is. Kind of like E-one does not own Salsbury, FedSig owns them both.

    Like most of the other folks here I will wait to see it on paper but at the same time I will not say it is false just because some paper pusher in Appleton says so.
    Last edited by District821; 02-07-2003 at 09:24 PM.

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    drkblram, no offense taken at all. I understand totally being sceptical of this news. I too was very leary of the information and very hesitent to post it on here. After I heard it in a few more places from different people, I decided what the hell. But, if (I use that because it is not in writing) this comes out on paper, you heard it here first.

    As for the one very good point made, Oshkosh may be writing the check. We'll see.


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    I have heard recently that Oshkosh was thinking of selling Pierce because they were not making enough money building fire trucks.

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    Default Oshkosh keeping Pierce

    NO WAY. Pierce makes about 40-50 mil a year according to annual reports. Its the largest division of OSH. Mc Nelius is another story.
    Military vehicles division is strong.

    I have heard a rumor (JUST A RUMOR) that the boys in Germany are thinking abuot dumping ALF. The story ran in a financial newspaper in London last week. It only mentioned non-core assets in thier US truck division. Analyst predict Freightliner is going to lose 1 Billion+ this year. They are also talking about Thomas school buses and the dump truck division. ONLY A RUMOR.

    Makes you think.

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    And if ALF/LTI can't hold on in a stand alone fashion or by being bought by a contender, this will be the 3rd or 4th shuttering of their doors. It does make you wonder.
    This is My Opinion and not of anyone elses!!

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    Rumor - pretty reliable - also has it that some of the core people still left at ALF's 3-D plant ( closing soon ) in Shawano are going out on there own in eather the old Braatz plant or The old J&B fabricating plant.

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    Thumbs up

    I just returned from the new ALF Charleston facility on a pumper pre-construction meeting. WOW over 400,000 sq. feet of manufacturing facility which includes a paint booth that easily fits two booths as large as the Pierce booth. This is one of the most technologically advanced Fire truck manufacturing facilities Iíve ever seen. It is equipped with computerized workstations, new fabrication equipment, as well as a huge engineering section. I have been told that ALF/ Daimler Chrysler has invested over $50 million already into this facility, and boy does it show. There were 500 people working at the facility the day I was there. I would estimate that they are about two months from completing all the construction at this facility. I viewed the new 2003 Eagle and Metropolitan lines in production and they are quite impressive. I also viewed the new Phoenix pumper cab with no dog house. In addition, Daimler Chrysler has just started up a new huge Unimog facility next door. There had to be over 50 new fire chassis & bodies in production. If anyone is in the Charleston area they should stop and take a look for themselves. As for the LTI aerial facility, our aerial is going to be built there and ALF has just signed an additional 4-year lease with the building owner. I have been to the Seagrave facility and I donít know how they can compete in this industry without investing a large amount of money into an old dilapidated facility. I guess they are in the process of determining what their future will be and what is the best course of action to take. When someone starts an unfounded rumor we should disregard it as propaganda. It will be interesting to see whatís going to be on display at the FDIC 2003.

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    I dont think we will see sutphen go down the tubes.

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    As per a reliable informant, Seagrave is up for sale and Pierce/Oshkosh is looking at it, but as of now, there is nothing definite. I wonder what Oshkosh would do with Seagrave if they did buy it. You can't own 2 companies that compete against each other. Time will tell.

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