1. #1
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    Angry Code Orange........"Duh!"

    I was informed like many others that our Nation expects some problems and has upped the ante to Code Orange. My being informed came by way of the Daily News, as was most cases, however, what's wrong with this picture?

    A FDNY Capt while responding to a call in the Wall St Area (lower Manhattan-vicinity of the WTC) was informed when they questioned a PD ESU Officer with a sub machine gun. How come "if" FD's are a part of the Homeland Security program......FD's, at least FDNY is NEVER notified of an increase of danger? So far as I know, most firefighters here get the word when calling the Wife during their tour!

    Obviously the PD got the advanced word, what is the FDNY orphans? It would sure be nice to give these people a "heads-up" instead of thinking their response is to something more normal.

    Maybe someone should ask Pete Hamill, since he claims to be FD sensitive......
    Last edited by RdRunnr; 02-08-2003 at 09:42 AM.
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    That is absolutely a local failure.

    Every jurisdiction should have one point of contact coordinating homeland security issues. This could be in the PD, it could be in OEM it could be in the Mayor's Office, it doesn't matter.

    When the jurisdiction is advised of a homeland security-related action, this coordinator is responsible for notifying all agencies.

    Again, this is something that must be planned for and agreed upon long before the actual notification takes place.

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    I agree George (for once) but it is a actuality......so far the FD has NOT been notified as to any increases of threat for the last six months, and we know there's been more then a few!
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    That is scary....really scary. We get about 3 or 4 faxes a week on alerts from our public safty officer. That may be a good excuse to watch TV during day hours.

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    Thumbs down

    We get our News from CNN.
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    Two possible solutions:

    1. The FD can sit back and complain

    2. The FD administration can sit down with the powers that be and manufacture a solution that will get them the info they need to operate effectively.

    This fits in the "duh" category.

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    George....I'll tell you what fits in the Duh-Catagory. My worst fears, that the NYPD have a handle on this too! In that case, with Kelly as their Commish, there's no way the FDNY will make any headway...as the man came up through the ranks as a ESU-Officer, Supervisor, etc.

    No matter how many times I've tried to explain this to you and others (so have my comrades from FDNY) NYC is a political animal.......and small things like misapropiations, mismangement, and personal beefs........reign supreme, even at the expense of the public. I am following up on this specific, simply because I think "whoever" is stopping the flow of information to the FDNY members on the street, needs a little slap behind the ear.

    If I were active, I sure as shi- would like to know if there's a terrorists strike possible or if it's a water leak! Once I have the information that preceeded the 24 hours before the press had it.....I'll know where and when to pursue it.
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    We were sent a fax within a couple hours of the change of status.

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    This happened locally when a commuter jet which was having problems was fly at about 2000 ft above tree level. I was in a meeting with a bunch of representive from all the town departments in a local town when the Police representive had to leave to contact the dispatch for more details. The chief and fire dept. were never notified. Now the way I see it if a plane goes down the PD is just about useless(no offence to PD i am currently applying to state pd) but I feel this could have been a very serious OH S***!
    This statements made above do not represent the agency i belong to in any shape or form. So if i say something stupid its just me.

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    Originally posted by RdRunnr
    George....I'll tell you what fits in the Duh-Catagory. My worst fears, that the NYPD have a handle on this too! In that case, with Kelly as their Commish, there's no way the FDNY will make any headway...as the man came up through the ranks as a ESU-Officer, Supervisor, etc.

    No matter how many times I've tried to explain this to you and others (so have my comrades from FDNY) NYC is a political animal.......and small things like misapropiations, mismangement, and personal beefs........reign supreme, even at the expense of the public. I am following up on this specific, simply because I think "whoever" is stopping the flow of information to the FDNY members on the street, needs a little slap behind the ear.

    If I were active, I sure as shi- would like to know if there's a terrorists strike possible or if it's a water leak! Once I have the information that preceeded the 24 hours before the press had it.....I'll know where and when to pursue it.
    I have lived my entire life 30 miles from NYC. I think I know pretty well how much of a political animal NYC is.

    And you are right, the FDNY should know about terrorist related stuff. I guess what I am saying is that if the admin of the FDNY cared as much as you do (and I do believe you care), they would be down at 1 PP and would be trying to set something up so that you DO know. Maybe the key here is OEM. Maybe they could get their info from them instead of having to worry about Kelly.

    The worst thing that could happen is for the FDNY admin to do nothing. Because that could get a whole lot of guys hurt.

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    From the United States Fire Administration website

    PROGRAM NOTICE

    The National Law Enforcement Telecommunication System

    The United States Fire Administration (USFA) has collaborated with the National Infrastructure Protection Center (NIPC) for the interim use of the National Law Enforcement Telecommunication System (NLETS) to provide more timely and complete threat and critical infrastructure protection (CIP) information to a larger segment of the fire and emergency medical services. NLETS is a sophisticated message-switching network linking local, State, and Federal agencies together for the expeditious exchange of interstate law enforcement and public safety related information.

    According to this temporary arrangement, effective 17 February, when NIPC information is particularly applicable to firefighters and emergency medical personnel as determined by USFA, it will be forwarded by NLETS to police agencies with special directions. A message header will request that the information be disseminated as soon as possible to the local fire and EMS chief officers because of the nature of the information and necessity for preparedness. The information will always be limited to official use only and never for general public consumption.

    Major law enforcement associations are being contacted by the NIPC to acquire their assistance in announcing this initiative throughout their membership and to obtain their support for its success. Therefore, USFA recommends that chief officers of the fire and emergency medical community take time now to discuss this development with their local police officials. Agreements should be concluded regarding how the transfer of this information will quickly and easily occur within their locality.

    The USFA Critical Infrastructure Protection Information Center (CIPIC) will continue to develop CIP news and information technology for the fire and EMS sector during 2003. There are high expectations that this sector will have its own dedicated electronic messaging system in the near future. Once implemented and tested, the new USFA CIPIC List Server should eliminate the dependence on NLETS for sector-wide distribution of essential CIP information. Watch for more information about the USFA CIPIC listserv at the USFA website: http://www.usfa.fema.gov/dhtml/fire-service/cipc.cfm.

    Please direct any questions or concerns to the CIPIC at (301) 447-1325 or usfacipc@fema.gov.

    http://www.usfa.fema.gov/dhtml/fire-...ogram-note.cfm

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    Default Something else to consider is...

    the 'it wont happen here' syndrome. While many of us take for granted that larger, more urban, agencies will be on top of changes in status, many, many, more places have the 'it won't happen to us' thought process, which leads to continual reactive planning instead of proactive forethought to prevent the kind of SNAFU from happening that apparently is hampering our colleagues in New York.

    Like Wendt said...if the coppers are cutting you out of the circle, get thine *** down to police hq or the EMA/OEM office and raise all kinds of crap. Regardless of what agency we work for, if that god forbidden day ever came again, justifying a horrible loss of civilian and sworn employee life with the excuse that 'we didnt know that the alert status was that high' is NO excuse. We've made that mistake once, and it's already cost too much.

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    Hey DUAL........ever try approaching the PD Commissioner or the FDNY Commissioner or the Mayor of New York? Not easy, however the word is out to the press. Let those annoying people ply their trade.

    Right now, as reports go in New York City, it's not only the FDNY.....but both the Port Authority and NYPD making similar reports and complaints.

    Somehow, somewhere, somebodys dropping the ball...........and the (training) as much touting, is not going forth in an acceptable way. I can guarantee this; If it's not happening in NYC......then wash away the eye-wash......"It is not happening at a level that will help anyone-anywhere!"

    Further, it's been my experience that if the Govt is giving us subtle hints on what might happen, they know a lot more then we will ever know.

    My suggestion, Hunker down and crawl out of the mess to try and do good!
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    CNN was talking about the change happening a day or 2 before it happened. As far as I could tell CNN knew that it was going to be a down deal before it happened.

    But you are right in the interest of homeland security all participants and organizations involved should know.

    On a side note, in the military we are never told when the security threat rating is increased. The only time we ever know is when we try to go to the PX and they have changed the placard on the guard booth that stated the current level, and there suddenly in flak vest and caring more then just there normal side arm.

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    Default just the reverse

    Strangely enough in my city, the fire department is far more prepared than the police. There are many reasons, the first is that one of our deputy chiefs is also a sherriff's supervisor/emergency manager/WMD expert from a neighboring county. He gets the FBI briefings and faxes the highlights to the full time administration, which then goes to our intranet, email and alphie pagers and also to the rest of the city staff. The problem is that the police chief does not have her priorities straight. I have to say that as a fire department we are lucky to have the resources we do. We do share these resources with the police but we had to order, assemble, and now store their response equipment with ours. In the event of an attack in Roseville the police will be useless because they dont have the training. I hope that people start listening to and playing nice together.

    How does FDNY communicate with their firefighters? We have a intranet system that goes to the computers in our stations, we have alpha-numeric pagers, fax machines, email, and of course the radio alarm system.

    I hope something is figured out to give you guys the up-to-date information.
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    We have CNN.
    ALL GAVE SOME BUT SOME GAVE ALL
    NEVER FORGET 9-11-01
    343
    CAPT. Frank Callahan Ladder 35 *
    LT. John Ginley Engine 40
    FF. Bruce Gary Engine 40
    FF. Jimmy Giberson Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Otten Ladder 35 *
    FF. Steve Mercado Engine 40 *
    FF. Kevin Bracken Engine 40 *
    FF. Vincent Morello Ladder 35
    FF. Michael Roberts Ladder 35 *
    FF. Michael Lynch Engine 40
    FF. Michael Dauria Engine 40

    Charleston 9
    "If my job was easy a cop would be doing it."
    *******************CLICK HERE*****************

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    Does the FDNY have a representative on the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force? I thought I saw your emblem on an advertisement for a special on the JTTF.

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    Thumbs up For George CFI

    In answer to your first question George......we're suppose to have, and we do, however what they deem important evidently is being kept "in-house".

    As I promised, a small word to the press zealots, has brought about the cluster-//// you see occurring in NYC right now. Evidently "no-one" has gotten appropiations, equipment, or training.....and all agencies are winging it. This includes the best prepared NYPD-, and the least prepared FDNY, with Port Authority-Transit-EMS-and Government Officials falling in the middle somewhere.

    I know I read in these forums just how better prepared some other agencies are prepared......but for your own sake, and my self-relaxation, take it a step further and find out, "if you really are basically prepared for the worst, and not just getting lip service".

    Remember the list of Slime Balls in this Country:
    The Press, Media, etc-
    Lawyers-
    Politicians-

    "without exception"
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    RdRunnr;

    I think you would find that in the other areas of the country, the relationship between the local JTTF and the emergency service community is cooperative and cordial. Here in NYC and North Jersey, you are right on the money. There is a general sense of secrecy and of trying to be the agency to "break the big one". This has lead to distrust and antagonism between local law enforcement and the FBI.

    I will absolutely never, ever, ever call the FBI to one of my jobs voluntarily. I am certain that you would find the same general feeling in the NYPD and the FDNY.

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    Smile Code Orange

    When in doubt Watch CNN...they have more info than the CIA
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    Default Re: Code Orange

    Originally posted by ff7134
    When in doubt Watch CNN...they have more info than the CIA
    True that...Seems like the news outlets know things before the agencies do...

    How's things in Richland Co.?

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    Just came across this discussion.

    I was out in California at FDIC West with a group of individuals who are on FEMA task forces as well as some of the FEMA IST's. They all had their FEMA pagers going off around 11:00 am California time advising them of the upgraded alert. Funny thing was, I heard it on the morning news at 07:30 am.....

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