1. #1
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    Default OK now this ****es me OFF

    It is fine and dandy to be against war, if that is your think, but I do not belive that States and Cities should be involved in making anti war resolutions that may or may not represent the feeling of there constituatnts. Not only that to me this shows a great amount of disrespect by these goverment agencies towards the federal goverment.


    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Some 90 U.S. city councils have passed resolutions opposing military actions against Iraq, with many arguing that such a war would devastate their economies, organizers of the campaign said on Thursday.

    Representatives of many of these cities, which include Chicago and Philadelphia among others, gathered in Washington to deliver their resolutions to the White House.

    "War will be financed by deficit spending and drastic cuts in domestic spending. The sons and daughters of American cities will be recruited to fight and even die in that war," Chicago alderman Joe Moore said.

    The city representatives told a news conference that resources in their jurisdictions were already severely stretched and the country could not afford a war.

    "In my city, our homeless shelters are jammed. In fact we are turning people away nightly," said Detroit councilwoman Maryann Mahaffey.

    The campaign to pass city resolutions is organized by the Institute for Policy Studies, a liberal think-tank and political action group. Its organizer, Karen Dolan, said anti-war resolutions were pending in 100 more towns and cities.

    Anti-war activists are organizing major rallies in New York and San Francisco this weekend which are expected to draw hundreds of thousands of people. Several hundred thousand attended a rally in Washington DC two weeks ago.

    Although the threat of war has spawned a large and vociferous peace movement, polls show support for a war has grown in the past week, since Secretary of State Colin Powell presented to the United Nations what he said was evidence that the Iraqi military was conspiring to conceal weapons of mass destruction from U.N. arms inspectors.

    A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll this week found 63 percent expressing support for a war with 34 percent opposed. If the war was not authorized by the U.N. Security Council, support fell to 39 percent, with 57 percent opposed without a new U.N. vote to give a green light.

    CITIES LARGE AND SMALL

    Cities that have passed anti-war resolutions include major urban centers like Baltimore and Atlanta, as well as university towns like Austin, Texas, Ann Arbor, Michigan and Berkeley, California, well known as liberal enclaves.

    They are concentrated on the East and West coasts and in the upper Midwest, mainly in states that did not support President Bush in the 2000 presidential election.

    Some cities have also rejected anti-war resolutions, arguing that city councils have no business meddling in foreign policy. A resolution failed by 6 to 1 this week in Los Alamos, New Mexico. Minneapolis and Portland, Oregon also refused to go along with resolutions.

    Chicago's Moore said the resolution in his city passed by 46 to 1. "Few decisions will have a more profound effect on the quality of life in our cities than the decision to go to war," he said.

    Councilman Don Cooney of Kalamazoo, Michigan, said 2,000 families in his town were displaying anti-war yard signs.

    Serena Cruz, commissioner of Multnomah County, Oregon said: "A preemptive war on Iraq will not make us any safer. Anything that undermines the United Nations makes the world a more dangerous place. We have not yet seen compelling reasons for entering this war but we see compelling needs every day in our cities that go unmet."

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    I do not belive that States and Cities should be involved in making anti war resolutions that may or may not represent the feeling of there constituatnts.
    Airborne,

    Everything local, county, state, or federal governments do may or may not represent the feelings of their constituants. It is up to us, the citizens to respond to this and any other issues we have with our representitives by letting them know how we feel. Most people pay no attention to these resolutions. They are symbolic at best.

    I am sure there are many cities and towns whose elected officials support taking out Hussein. They will never put it to a vote on the record.

    Thank you for your service

    Duff
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

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    Don't forget what late Speaker of the House Thomas P. "Tip" O'Neill said....

    all politics is local...
    Last edited by CaptainGonzo; 02-13-2003 at 09:48 PM.
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    They reported on the news tonight here in RI that 6 congressmen, 3 military people and the families of 6 soldiers went to Fed. Court in Mass to get an order to stop Bush from attacking Iraq. They believe that he does not have the authority to attack Iraq without a Declaration of War from Congress.

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    But congress already gacve that to him a while back did they not?


    I don't understand what it is that makes people against going into Iraq. I sometimes thing that it is because of Bush more then anything. If it was someone else in office I don't think that there would be such an out cry. I don't recall there being such out cry in 98 when we lobed a few miussles into Iraq.

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    They believe that he does not have the authority to attack Iraq without a Declaration of War from Congress.
    They shouldn't have been allowed out of HIGH SCHOOL if they didn't know that isn't true.

    They need to read the War Powers Act, and THEN they need to read the joint resolution passed by Congress, THEN they need to read UN 1441, and then MAYBE they'll see Bush already HAS all the authority he'll ever need, and more than Klinton had for his merry misadventures!
    Last edited by CollegeBuff; 02-14-2003 at 01:07 AM.

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    Yes,

    Americans will be sent to fight and some will die, but isn't that how
    this country was founded?

    Personally, I feel war is not the best way to go, but looks like it is the only way to go. We must protect our people and our interests.

    To those in the military Good luck, stand strong, may God be with you.
    Proud to be IACOJ Illinois Chapter--Deemed "Crustworthy" Jan, 2003

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    What do you expect from University towns? Most Universities these days preach ultra liberal sputter to the students. Liberals are the reason we are where we are now. Liberals are the downfall of Americanism and Patriotism.


    TOM DASCHLE IS LIKE A BAD RASH! HE JUST WONT GO AWAY!

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    I was re-reading this article and this really bothered me.


    "War will be financed by deficit spending and drastic cuts in domestic spending. The sons and daughters of American cities will be recruited to fight and even die in that war," Chicago alderman Joe Moore said.

    First of no one is being forced to go into the military, people volunteer to join. And if a person joined with out the intention of following the orders of the commander in Chief, then that is a direct violation of the contract that this person made with the federal government.

    American's are not the only ones that are going to die, we should consider our selves lucky, and we have training and equipment that the people of Iraq from the North and the South that will also be fighting do not have. On top of that, I as an American can not stand by and do nothing while any human being is being tortured and having their life destroyed because some person decided that he was going to be a dictator.

    It bothers me that these Anti war protesters can not see past there own selfishness and see that there are Humans in other parts of this country that could be living free and productive lives, if only the power of America was stepped up and allowed to free these people.

    I no longer believe that American freedom, and liberty should end at our borders, theirs to much at stake, and being the only world power we need to play a role in it, and it is to our advantage to be the ones that are bring around change that will free people from there oppressors and some day maybe bring around world peace. But that will not happen while sitting back and allowing a person like Saddam, or Gadafi, or Sum Kill Ill(sp?) or any of these other people, rule there countries and there people into starvation, torture and death. There needs to be accountability, and if the UN will not and can not then I say we have to do it with out them.

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    I dont remember much from Govt class (there was fine young lady with short skirts and tight jeans almost everyday in front of me) but I believe the PResident can attack anyone he wants for 90 days before a resolution must be passed supporting the effort. Anybody, does this ring a bell? While ya'll think about it I am going to take a moment to remember Jennifer, Jenny, Gen? ....cant remember but I can still picture your backside.....

    Stay Safe

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    I saw 5 minutes of Phil Donahue (that's all I could stand) last night and was amazed to hear him ask "Why are we going after Iraq when we did not go after people like Tim McVeigh, after all, they are the same type." Apparantly, Donahue feels we should wait till Iraq blows more stuff up and kills more people before we tell him to stop.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    At this point in time I no longer care is Saddam has weapons of Mass destruction, the man had done bad things and it is time for him to pay for them. It would be nice if the rest of the world would see this, but again it does not matter.

    I say take care of Saddam, and cut off all aid that we give to france Germany, and Russia, and give it to the people have Iraq for payment for not doing our job right last time.

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    >I say take care of Saddam, and cut off all aid that we give to >france Germany, and Russia, and give it to the people have Iraq for >payment for not doing our job right last time.

    Cut off foriegn aid to France and Germany. Hmmm... Shouldn't be too hard, since we don't give them any...

    But the $1,500,000,000 the US gives to Russia each year could buy a h#ll of a lot of thermal imagers, and pay for a bunch of new firefighters...

    just my two cents...

    And whether you're over here with an FD, or called to duty overseas, be safe, and know that you've got our support.

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    Originally posted by cfdeng3
    They reported on the news tonight here in RI that 6 congressmen, 3 military people and the families of 6 soldiers went to Fed. Court in Mass to get an order to stop Bush from attacking Iraq. They believe that he does not have the authority to attack Iraq without a Declaration of War from Congress.

    I am confident that this lawsuit will be shut down pretty quickly. The Constitution is plain that Congress can ONLY declare war, (and fund a war), the rest is left to the President as his roll as Commander in Chief of our armed forces. It is a seperation of powers issue that the courts will side with the President. The framers realized that we don't need all of the Senators and Representatives running the military so they gave that power to one elected official, the President.

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    Originally posted by fergus
    >I say take care of Saddam, and cut off all aid that we give to >france Germany, and Russia, and give it to the people have Iraq for >payment for not doing our job right last time.

    Cut off foriegn aid to France and Germany. Hmmm... Shouldn't be too hard, since we don't give them any...

    But the $1,500,000,000 the US gives to Russia each year could buy a h#ll of a lot of thermal imagers, and pay for a bunch of new firefighters...

    just my two cents...

    And whether you're over here with an FD, or called to duty overseas, be safe, and know that you've got our support.
    Are you sure about this, my understanding is that we give them lots of money. For exampel I belive that we give Germany money to allow us to station troops there on there bases. And that we give them money for other things.

    Eathir way I say cut the Froakers off an let them become issolationist if that is what they want. But don't come crying to us the next time some other country kicks the crap out of you.

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    Let's see, our government is not able to convince our own country that we should be going after Sad-*** and you think France/Germany should just jump in there with us? Sorry, but Hello McFly...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    See this is the issue. Bush has convinced an ovr whelming amount of people in this country that there is a need to remove Saddam. The problem is these activist lie, and bend the truth to make it seem that they are the ones that have the country backing them. On top of that they make issue of things that are not true and that they have no evidence of.

    Like Bush said today, he is glad that they are out there using there right to free speach, but he and I agree with him, disagree with there view of the situation. Boy it sure would be nice if the people of Iraq had the same choice and freedom that these people have. Can you imaging what it would feel like for the Iraq people to see that all of these people are useing there freedom of free speech to tell the rest of the world that we should not fight so they can have the same right.

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    Unhappy JUST THROWING MY PENNY INTO THE POT

    First I have to say that as a "Regular Joe" kinda guy, I really hope that it does not come to a full out shoot'n war. Inspite of the history of Mankind being constantly written from the point of view of the Victor, I would rather avoid it if possible.... IF POSSIBLE.

    Now, as an Army Geek (of which I am one), I will go and do what needs to be done. I don't have to like, I just have to accept it. Nuff said there.

    In one of the earliest posts, there was a comment from a City Official that he was concerned that war would ruin his cities businesses. In some cases that may be true, however historically speaking (yet again) war had traditionally been very very good for the economy, for industry and to some extent even good for humanity in general. In that last part I do not mean by thining out the world population by any means. By that I mean that when countries go to war, their productivity in many areas increases dramatically.

    Medicine research goes way up for instance. Sometimes for the wrong reasons, Hitler's Death Camps were such places, right or wrong, some of what was done has benefitted us in the end. I don't condone it, this is just a fact.

    Techincal example: If it weren't for WWII, rocket production and atom testing would have happened many years later - there was no "race" to be first to make either one before the war started.

    Its true that during that same war, American and Canadian citizens did go without many things, but it is also true that overall both countries benefitted greatly by it. There was a great influx of foreign money to build everything. Back then we were mostly a protected species. There was very little on the planet that could actually reach us, and for the most part life went on as per "normal".

    What most of these Dudley Do-Gooder's don't realize is that those days of "protection" are gone. 9-11 is a fine example of that. Prior to 11 September, who would have thought that the World Trade Centre or any other building in North America would ever come down. I for never thought it possible, then I got to watch it on "live" television. I still remember the sick feeling I had when I watched the second tower go. I missed the first one, and thought they were joking when the guys in the ops room came and told me about it.

    Each day I watch or listen to the news and I hear of Anti-war protesters, I wonder how they would feel if they realy understood why they are protesting. I would be just guessing at this mostly, but I'll bet that not one of them (particularly the organizers) were not in New York when the Towers fell, and I'll bet they were not in Oklahoma when McVey blew that up too. (I apologize I can't remember the name of the building).

    I suspect that they don't fully realize what these terroist types are willing to do and how far they will go to get what they want. Fanatics don't care if they die, because they think they "died in the service of their God". Therefore, if they take a few innocents with them, well God will sort that out in his own way, just so long as the Infidel is dead.

    Ok, this seems to have run away on me.... So is war good for the economy? You bet your boots it is - for most anyway. Does it solve the issue at hand? I don't really think so, there is always another "bad fish" in the pond. Does that mean that postponing war is a good thing? I don't know. Most days I wish we could just get it over and done with and carry on, other days I am not so hard nosed about it. Will I go if I am called upon? YES.
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    >Are you sure about this, my understanding is that we give them lots >of money. For exampel I belive that we give Germany money to allow >us to station troops there on there bases. And that we give them >money for other things.

    As far as funding for "troop rent" goes, I don't know, but as far as foriegn aid goes, they don't get any. The top foriegn aid recipient is Israel, who gets a couple billion a year, followed closely by Egypt (!). Germany has one of the strongest economies in the world right now (and the Euro's at $1.07 last I checked), and they really don't need any assistance.

    Some local restraunt was on the news the other night; they were pouring all their French wine down the sink, and stated that they weren't going to be selling it anymore. An expensive way to make a point, but I got a kick out of it. I also heard about another restraunt that refuses to sell french fries anymore- they call them "freedom fries" now.

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    I heard about the freedom fries thing also, if I was any where near there I would be getting some just for the principle.

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