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  1. #1
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    Lightbulb Show some guidance!

    I started my run at entering the fire service a year ago. Think back to when you started in this great life of firefighting. I think the kid shouldn't get the tongue ring personally, but he was just asking. Many guys on here were quick to toss him to the curb for his thoughts, thats sad! Just say "bad idea" leave it at that. Kid do the right thing like you already figured out and by now you've already landed a job im sure so good luck and be safe. Be a Leader, Not a A-Hole
    Last edited by MOFireCadet1717; 02-19-2003 at 10:27 PM.


  2. #2
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    Default Lost

    This was to be tagged under tongue ring sorry if your lost

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Show some guidance!

    Originally posted by MOFireCadet1717
    I started my run at entering the fire service a year ago.
    PA maybe thats why your a volunteer.
    Be a Leader, Not a A-Hole
    Boy, you have been trying to get on the job for a year now, I hope you get what you'd like.
    What are you implying by the second comment mentioned above? Who says that PA isn't a Volunteer because that is what he wants to do? Some folks don't want to do this job fulltime. I still volunteer, even though I have a fulltime FD job, you gunna throw jabs at me for that too?
    Look at the last line quoted above from you... TAKE YOUR OWN ADVICE KID!!!
    That whole thread was answered by a few, then the arguement that ensued was about others own issues, not directly aimed at the thread starter like you imply.
    You're opening a can of worms here you'll wish you hadn't...

    *Mark
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  4. #4
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    Default Ummm Ok

    First off don't call me Boy.
    Second, I appoligize in any matter that look like I show disrespect towards Volunteer's. (I Volunteer as well) Since you are worried about how my career is going. I am 24 own two businesses and wife is having my first child and to take a career move right now won't work. Oh and I've had offers. The thread read and I quote "get out of profession" and "lead you out the door with it" who cares who it was directed at those are comments that should never be made. I hope you don't disagree, I find it discouraging that I have to speak up.
    Oh and since I was being so lazy this last year scouring for a job I went ahead and got my pesky Fire Science BA out of the way

  5. #5
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    Default

    Mo,

    Seeing that you are new to these forums let me offer
    some advice.

    You are correct people are quick to jump on someone because of
    their views, but please don't come on here and try to start something.

    Many people have been on here for quite a while and they will come down on you hard. If that is what you are looking for than you've come to the right place. If not you can learn a ton of information here.

    I am sure your post is not intended to start anything, but from experience I believe it will.

    But, Welcome to the forums and when you here the bell come out swinging.
    Proud to be IACOJ Illinois Chapter--Deemed "Crustworthy" Jan, 2003

  6. #6
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    Default

    Well lookee here boys, we got ourselves a PUP!!!!

  7. #7
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    Default I believe I'm in it now

    Guys,
    Not really a pup or boy lol to the site. I've been reading ever since I was in college. I would say maybe the vent came with a bad week of specialized training with a instructor from hell. He thought he was Captain Bad-*** and pretty much discouraged two kids into leaving a class they paid for (not me can't be broken lol), it was sad. I know the process of respect in the service and will give it to all who have been before me. Treat this as a one time vent, however read in that it was with all good intentions. From now on go ahead and refer to me as Pupboy lol Be Safe, and Smart

  8. #8
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    Default

    Trust me... "pup" does not mean "new guy" around here......

  9. #9
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default

    MOfirecadet1717...

    First of all... welcome to the forums.

    There are people on here on the forums from all facets of the fire service...career, call, volunteer, military and industrial. Some of them are fire buffs, some of them are retired jakes, junior jakes, and some "wannabee" jakes.

    It's nice to see you are successful... many of the volunteer firefighters here also own their own businesses or work for corporate America. Many of the career jakes here own their own businesses on the side. Many of the career jakes left well paying jobs to pursue their dream of being a firefighter. Some have left secure fire department jobs to start over again in another city.

    There are "captain badasses" in all walks of life. There are some fire service instructors who think the proper approach to instructing is the "full metal jacket Marine Corps DI" method...not a problem, as long as they are firm and fair. There are also some students who go to fire training school with the "I know it all been there done that attitude" that can't handle the truth of the fact that they know absolutely nothing about everything!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  10. #10
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default Some guidance, please.

    MOfirecadet1717:
    Be a Leader, Not a A-Hole
    I am sitting here trying to figure out which category I fall in to.
    Let me ask you something. Do you suppose that Colin Powell took out his tongue ring before he addressed the U.N.? Is it safe to say that General Schwartzkopf took off his earring while leading the troops in Desert Storm? And have you ever seen a picture of President Bush at his favorite tattoo parlor? I have just given you three men that are leaders to the Nth degree and I strongly doubt that body piercings created a dilemma for them.
    Why is it that we accept the strict rules on appearance for our military right down to how to wear hair, dress and what can and cannot be worn while on duty? Do you think that it has something to do with creating a discipline that will teach our soldiers to follow rules so that when someone is shooting at them and they are told to move towards them that it will give them the discipline to fulfill their commitment? Why can't the fire service have the same expectations?
    I don't believe for a minute that a person's opinions has anything to do with their leadership skills. Following rules has everything to do with leadership. A reasonable person would not have to ask a group of veteran firefighters if it was OK to wear a tongue ring when trying to get hired on a fire department. Appearance DOES still count. And I wouldn't want a hiring decision based on my opinions anymore than you want them made on appearance. But the truth is; I can voice an opinion at the time of hire and the interviewer will just nod. But that same interviewer will not be able to take his eyes off of the tongue ring, eyebrow ring, earring, and nose ring long enough to give you a fair hearing. And that's a fact.
    I am not against a person expressing their individuality but you will have to do it where it doesn't matter whether or not you have multiple piercings and purple hair. It will all clash with your Class A's.
    Well, I think I pretty much sealed my fate as to which category I fall into.
    I have expressed my opinion, but you know what? I'm still chief!
    Oh and being called "pup" isn't bad compared to some of the names that I have been called. I answer to several.
    See ya in the forums.
    CR
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    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Ummm Ok

    ChiefReason, well said, thank you.

    *Mark
    FTM-PTB-RFB-EGH

  12. #12
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    Default Good Debate

    I agree with most of what you say Chief. However, I'm not a fan of Bush and really feel Schwartzkopf was a good General not "GREAT". I agree with all that is said, heck my hair hasn't been longer than two inches my hole life. I do have one tattoo but it is a catholic cross. I feel image is everything in the interview process.

    The Captain Bad-*** I spoke of first was paid to educate not interrogate. The boys he barraded were having a hard time with reseting a pass alarm and his screaming was making them nervous. This was not done to help them work under pressure either. It was uncalled for. I swallow my pride, comments he made I could have took. It still caused me to lose respect in the way he handled the matter. I also feel the training is inadequate in the way it is presented and could be easier retained if supplied differently. So long story short I have no problem with badasses if it is serving a purpose (his isn't). A 70% pass rate in the last 4 classes he instructed isn't backin it up.

    On a good note it makes me want to follow my dream of instructing in the future.
    Be Safe!
    "Get the **** on the Truck, or sit your $&# on the grass"

  13. #13
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Good Debate

    Originally posted by MOFireCadet1717
    I agree with most of what you say Chief. However, I'm not a fan of Bush and really feel Schwartzkopf was a good General not "GREAT". I agree with all that is said, heck my hair hasn't been longer than two inches my hole life. I do have one tattoo but it is a catholic cross. I feel image is everything in the interview process.

    The Captain Bad-*** I spoke of first was paid to educate not interrogate. The boys he barraded were having a hard time with reseting a pass alarm and his screaming was making them nervous. This was not done to help them work under pressure either. It was uncalled for. I swallow my pride, comments he made I could have took. It still caused me to lose respect in the way he handled the matter. I also feel the training is inadequate in the way it is presented and could be easier retained if supplied differently. So long story short I have no problem with badasses if it is serving a purpose (his isn't). A 70% pass rate in the last 4 classes he instructed isn't backin it up.

    On a good note it makes me want to follow my dream of instructing in the future.
    Be Safe!
    "Get the **** on the Truck, or sit your $&# on the grass"
    Oh my God.... less than a year in the Fire Service and already complaining of the way things are done.

    This isn't your little "business" venture. It's a business where a decision that is made can make the difference between saving a house or losing it... saving lives or losing them. It requires incident commanders to send their crews into situations that can become untenable in a matter of seconds and endanger the lives of those they have a responsibility to protect!

    Resetting a PASS device is a simple task. It involves pushing a button or sliding a switch or just moving around when the pre alert signal goes off. if a firefighter canditate can't handle a simple task as that, how are they going to operate a complex piece of fire apparatus?

    Firefighting is a profession where one works under constant pressure. Fire training is presented in a logical, sequential pattern that molds a group of individuals into a team that works together. If someone can't handle an instructor's rant, how are they going to deal with an incident commander barking orders at a fire that is going from offensive to defensive mode? How are they going to react when their company officer gives them orders? How are they going to react "under, over and in a fire"?

    "Captain Badass" has a 70% passing rate. That tells me that he has weeded out 30% of those who were not cut out for this job.

    If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

    Just my 3 cents worth... Captains have to pay a little more!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  14. #14
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Default

    First a few quick observations.
    1. mark440 didn't call you "Boy". It was used as an exclamatory.
    2. Congratulations on completeing your degree. There's a bunch of guys with degrees here too, and did it while they worked full time.

    Captain Gonzo pretty well covered everything else.

    But, let's talk about Captain Badass for just a sec. Instructors are paid to teach. Students that learn, pass the program, and those that don't learn or don't comprehend, fail. It's not the instructor's job to hand out a passing grade just because the students paid for the class. All too often some come into class thinking it's break time, and just play around. Captain Badass understands that the rest of the people he's sending these guys back to expect him to weed out those that "talk the talk", but can't (or don't) "walk the walk". It's as much for those students safety as it is for their co-workers. The skills possessed by a firefighter are acquired by hard work. They aren't an entitlement.

    I can't help but wonder what these individuals' response would be if they had to tinker with their pass devices because they weren't familiar enough with the equipment to use it in heavy smoke or in the dark. That can be a little stressful. A lot more so than somebody yelling at them is going to do. Shaking them up by yelling at them isn't an entirely bad thing.

    I've used all of the various techniques. The "I'm disappointed" approach often results in a total disregard on the students part of the importance of the point I'm trying to make. This and similar mistakes are often repeated, both in training, and on the fireground. Generally, the DI approach gets their attention without fail. The last time I used the "Psycho DI" approach was on a young man that had put his SCBA on upside down, and argued that he was right. This was in the last week of the recruit training.

    Instruction is often a matter of timing, and personal assessment of the type of student they are dealing with. It's not about just taking their money and passing as many students as possible. It's also about "culling the herd".
    Last edited by Steamer; 02-20-2003 at 01:53 AM.
    Steve Gallagher
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  15. #15
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Default

    The last time I used the "Psycho DI" approach was on a young man that had put his SCBA on upside down, and argued that he was right. This was in the last week of the recruit training.
    I hope you didn't hu't his wittle feewlings too badwy.

  16. #16
    Forum Member PAVolunteer's Avatar
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    Default

    Originally posted by MOFireCadet1717
    PA maybe thats why your a volunteer.
    Originally posted by MOFireCadet1717
    This was to be tagged under tongue ring sorry if your lost
    Originally posted by MOFireCadet1717
    I've been reading ever since I was in college.
    Originally posted by MOFireCadet1717
    heck my hair hasn't been longer than two inches my hole life.
    I guess I stumbled across this one a little too late, huh?

    Let's see, I was insulted by someone who:
    (A) doesn't have the balls to leave it posted (thanks for catching that, Mark);
    (B) can't even manage to post his insults under the correct thread;
    (C) only learned to read in college;
    (D) still hasn't learned the difference between "your" and "you're";
    (E) and does not know the difference between "hole" and "whole."

    I must say, I'm not going to get too upset over this one.

    Stay Safe - that includes you, pupboy.

  17. #17
    Forum Member RyanEMVFD's Avatar
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    Default

    who has the quote in their signature that reads, "if this job was easy, everybody would be doing it!" ?
    NREMT-P\ Reserve Volunteer Firefighter\Reserve Police Officer
    IACOJ Attack

    Experts built the Titanic, amateurs built the Ark.

  18. #18
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    Default

    I had it as part of my tag line.... and it's true!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber Duffman's Avatar
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    Default

    I get the feeling MO thinks he has this firefighting thing down cold. I will be listening to see if his attitude changes once he has been humbled a time or two while on the job. Trust me MO, you can be broken.
    "We shouldn't be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them in New York City."

    IACOJ

  20. #20
    Forum Member DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
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    MoCadet was concerned about the instructor creating a pressure situation.

    You want pressure?

    Try being the IC at the West Warwick, Rhode Island nightclub fire... a structure fully involved and a mass casualty incident rolled into one.

    Try pulling up to a house fire and have a distraught parent scream "my kids are still in there".

    Try hearing a PASS device go off, then taking a head count and finding a firefighter missing.

    If anything, MO, you should be THANKING the instructor. You may percieve him to be a "badass", but what he is doing preparing you for life on the fireground! As far as the two quitters, we have enough "doorway dancers" as it is!
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

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