1. #1
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    Default Vehicle grant: How new can oldest current vehicle be?

    Our greatest need is for a vehicle, but we have the happy problem that our four apparatus are 1986, 1987, 1996, and 1998 models.

    Should I waste an application on a truck? I'm dying for a definitive answer here. I have heard that you can forget a vehicle if you have anything less than 25 years old. I have also heard that one FD got a new pumper-tanker a couple years ago and then turned around and got funded for another apparatus through the FIRE Act.

    Anyone have any credible info on this?

    Thanks, friends.
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    From what I was told at last year's and this year's FEMA seminars it doesn't matter how old your oldest truck is, it's when you last purchased a new truck.

    It's sounds like you're out of luck but your best bet is to go to FEMA's web site and send them an e-mail.

    And don't forget, no grant application is ever wasted. You learn everytime you apply and are turned down on what to do the next time.

    Good luck.
    Steve Dragon
    FFII, Fire Instructor II, Fire Officer I, Fire Appartus Driver Operator Certified
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    It doesn't matter what the age of your ovreall newest vehicle is, it's the age of the vehicle in the class that you're looking to replace. If you don't have one in that class, then it doesn't matter if you have newer engines if you're applying for a tanker or a heavy rescue, which is what we applied for and got last year because we only had an 11 year old light rescue.

    Just make sure you read the rules, write a proper narrative, and back up your reasoning why you think this project will solve the problem you have. More importantly, state the problem you are having. They're not mind readers.

    Good luck.

    Brian
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    If you have trucks that new, I don't think I would waste my time writing the grant. I don't think the odds would be that good.

    Although........I have been wrong before!

    Todd

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    EastKyFF: What are the 4 trucks you have and their ages, and what are you thinking of applying for? We can give a better breakdown with that info.

    Brian

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    Our current fleet:

    1998 engine
    1986 engine
    1996 tanker
    1987 mini-pumper/rescue

    We would like to replace the mini with a light rescue. Trouble is, we bought the '98 engine new and just bought the '96 tanker a year ago.

    Having just seen the program guidance and that a rescue is priority two for rural FD's, I think I know the answer. But please continue providing your feedback!
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    You're right. I think you have answered your own question. Rescues are not a top priority, therefore I would re-evaluate your departments need and see if there is anything else that could be looked at.

    Our newest Engine is a 1975. We have applied for a new one for the past two years. As I look back on it, I see that we were wasting our time. We are now going to try and replace our SCBA's which were also purchase between 1975-1980.

    Todd

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    We would like to apply for a brush truck. closest thing we have is a 1962 Studebaker military surplus duce and a half with a 1200 gallon tank on it from our state forestry. We are now using it for a tanker/ brush truck since we installed a pump and a booster reel on it.We are wanting something smaller.

    Do we have to get a ready made brush truck from a company like E-One or can we make our own. We have priced a 4x4 1 ton dually that we can put a skid pump in the back and bult us a brush truck that way cheaper than buying a new ready built. Can we build our own like this or not?

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    toddmcbr is right, Rescue being a Priority 2 for Rural, it would be a tough sell, but not impossible. Ours had more merit because we're suburban, but share a large border with the 4th largest city in the country. And they only have 2 heavy rescues.

    toddmcbr: Check your narrative against those at www.firegraphics.org/grants.htm
    As with most, the narrative was the deciding factor, and no offense, but if you didn't sell your case well enough, no dice. There are factors other than age of apparatus, and that is call volume, district size and makeup, among others. Departments that run 100 calls a year and have historically had 2 real fires out of those 100 runs, don't fall into the higher priority of the program's mission, which is to help the largest piece of the population possible. If you mentioned that your SCBA was that old in the narrative, the reviewers may have deemed that you should be replacing that rather than the engine. Engines can be fixed, lungs can't. Replacing 20+ year old SCBA will likely be an easy narrative. Quote some health department statistics about lung disease and firefighters or something along those lines. Just saying we need new SCBA because it's old and unreliable will yield the response of "Duh.!" As that article in Fire Engineering Dec 2002 said, restating obvious things like that doesn't help your case, it hurts. Showing the number of inhalation injuries that firefighters have suffered because of old or unreliable SCBA shows you've done your homework, and they like that.

    nfvfd1: no, you can apply for anything. If you have the people willing to perform the labor, that shows more economical use of the program $$, so as long as you write the right narrative, it will be tough to turn down. Kinda funny since we're starting to look at a duece and half because our newest "brush" truck gets stuck off road if a deer pees behind a bush.

    Brian

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    I'd ask FEMA. Last year we applied for a pumper. Our newest one is a 1972. There was a question on the ap that asked for the age of our newest piece of front line apparatus. Since we have a service truck that is 1997 (an old ambulance) I asked FEMA what to put for the answer. They told me that if we had a truck that was a 1997 model, that is what we had to answer, regardless of what type truck it was. We got a dear john letter in the first round. Apparently that was not a good answer if you're applying for any type of truck. At least I asked and was honest. This year we're asking for SCBA. Ours are all atleast 18 years old, some 40 years old. And we only have 9 between 2 stations and 25 FFs. Might have a chance this year.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

    FLATLANDERS FOREVER!

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    Well unfortunately Jack, you must have caught someone on either a brain break or a bad day. Right in the rules for vehicles it stated that the answer to said question was the year of the newest vehicle of the type that you were applying for. You had to list all other vehicles, but that answer may have been one for the initial computer scoring. I can't say since don't really know how that goes, but I put every vehicle we had in the application, which included a 2001 Brush Truck, 2000 & 2001 ambulances, and 2 1999 pumpers. But no heavy rescue because we had 0 of that type, and we got it. I'm sure that your answer to that question wasn't the only reason you didn't get the award since there were so many facets, but it may have been the last straw on the camel.

    Another thought is if you mentioned that you only had 9 SCBA for 2 stations. Again, SCBA is more important than new vehicles, so they may have thought that you should have applied for SCBA because that would have been a better solution to the problem of making calls.

    I don't mean any offense or anything, I'm just trying to help out by giving advice where I can so that everyone submits golden applications for this year. No spelling or grammer mistakes, valid solutions to the real problems, amazing narratives, that sort of thing. That way, those that truly need the money get it. Makes the reviewers really have to think about it.

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    BC,
    Without looking back at the paperwork, I think the questions asked how many of the type apparatus we were asking for that we had (3, although all old), and the age of the newest front line apparatus. That's why I asked FEMA and I answered it the way they said. I knew something bad would happen after I answered the way I did, but that's the breaks. I didn't mention the SCBA in last year's application. Oh, well, things have kind of worked out for us and we'll try again this year for some funding.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

    FLATLANDERS FOREVER!

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    bd79er, your link does not work. Can you check your source and repost it??
    Remember, it IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you!

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    The URL is correct. Would be bad if I screwed up my own web site. I just tried it and it didn't work so something must be wrong with my host. I can get to the site setup in FTP, so best thing I can say is keep checking back. This is the first time in a long time that I haven't been able to get to it.

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    We got fundung for a Quint, and our vehicles are a;

    80 pumper (being replaced)
    87 pumper
    88 pumper
    95 tanker

    But like you, we purchased the 87 pumper in 96 and the 95 tanker in 98.

    -Nick

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    Default Don't bother

    According to the seminar I was in, the odds for an apparatus are extremely low, like 3% chance. The facilitator basically said that unless your need is extreme, you should select another category.

    Good luck to all!
    NCVFC17

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    True, if you need gear, or SCBA, or something along those line, it should be that first. But if your truck is falling apart, make sure you mention that you have everything else already. Meaning that your basic needs are already covered. If you need apparatus, check into a refurb to bring it up to speed. If it's the only truck, ask FEMA if the cost of renting one while it's in the shop can be part of the grant. I believe it can be considered as part of the cost because you can't go without a truck. If that cost approaches the cost of a new one, document that fact to show them that you've looked at the problem from all angles.

    NickSBFD6 backs up my point about not having something in that category. If you need a new pumper and don't have any aerial devices, go for a quint to expand the dynamics of the department. 0 vehicles in that category, so your chances are better. And document all fo the benefits of having the quint. You need to do mass research. And you'd better get moving because the application season opened today.

    Good luck.

    Brian

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    At first we were looking at a rescue pumper or something more along those lines. The people at the grant seminars preached to "not bother" going for any type of ladder truck. But we sat sown, and talked about the best way to justify a large apparatus purchase. the obvious answer was to go for 1 vehicle that could complete many tasks. We didn't harp so much on our need for a ladder as much as we did on our plans for a multi-puropuse truck. remember bang for the buck. And remember firefighter safety, we made mention of truss roofs, icy conditions and other safety issues. I'm not sure why we got picked, i didn't think we had a snowballs chance in he!!, but we got awarded. Good luck and DON'T GIVE UP!!!

    Remember, fair or not this is a competetive process, make sure you cross all your i's and dot the t's. Crying poverty will get you nowhere. You got to express your visions of the future, and your visions for the particular item you are applying for, not harp on your misfortune.

    -Nick

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    Wink If I came on a litte strong...

    I apologize. In reading my last post it seemed a little more harsh than I intended.

    We've just gotten alot of flack from other departments, and vendors who say that departments all over the place are ****ed off. As if we got a different grant packet than everyone else. As far as I'm concerned, we all had the same opportunity.

    Again, sorry if I was a little harsh


    -Nick

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