Riding ASsignments

[cfd3800]

Are any Volunteer departments using riding assignments that are seat specific for their apparatus and if do they work????

[RobbyJR307]

Nope my department don't use them. It just depends on what the officer in charge wants you to do.

[Bugle3]

Having riding assignments for a volunteer department is tough due to the fact that you never know who will be riding where when you are going to a call. Instead of riding assignments try tool assignments, if you are sitting in this seat you should have ___________and _________ when you get off the apparatus. So it might look like this; Officer side jump seat-upon arrival you should have a can and hook.(for all of you truckies out there!) Stay low-stay safe.

[RyanEMVFD]

ours is simple. the driver (engineer) is in charge of the truck. the passenger is either an officer or a firefighter and they do everything else. our trucks only seat two people.

[Halligan84]

We use riding assignments and we feel they work very well. We utilize a quint first out with 2 engines and a rescue coming behind on structure fires. Due to multiple station responses, the quint generally arrives with an engine and operates as a truck 95% of the time. Our riding assignments are basic and cover 2 in 2 out compliance, plus getting a water supply, handline in service, forcible entry, search and horizontal vent with 2 4 man crews. Email me @ halligan84@comcast.net if you want additional info, I can email a chart.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

The PA Dept I ran with had bucket assignments and especially for me coming in new up there, it got rid of a lot of confusion on what was supposed to be done. I think it still does. The officer doesn't have to figure out who he has and who he wants to do what. If you get on the truck you should be able to perform every task associated with that piece of apparatus. Engines with 6 usually have engineer, officer, tipman, irons, hydrant, and backup. Trucks/Rescue have chauffer, officer, roof, irons, outside vent, canman. Each seat is responsible for a piece of the suppression pie. Each task normally must be done on every fireground. So as an officer, it would be really easy for me to say we're going in service and that's all ZI should have to say. Interior crew goes interior, exterior goes exterior. I shouldn't have to say "Bob you go to the roof, Chris you help him. No wait Chris you come with me...." If you are sitting in that seat, you do that job by default and if the officer needs something other than that, he says so. If it's self vented tell the roof man to go with the 2nd interior crew. And that's it. Roof knows who he/she is because they're sitting there. You don't even need to turn around to see who's on the truck because it doesn't matter.

That doesn't happen now because everyone wants to micromanage and tell everyone what to do when we arrive. So instead of getting off the truck with the task & tools needed already known, people have to stand around and wait for an officer to make a decision. The reasoning that's been given is that you don't know who's coming and some people aren't wanted in certain spots. My feeling is that it doesn't matter who is in what seat at the time, you can change people around en route. But with buckets known, you can just say X take the irons, Y take the hydrant. No hand holding necessary.

Stay safe. And remember real trucks don't have no stinkin' pump.

Brian

[e3med53]

Our Dept. uses seating assignments for general duties like catching a hydrant, grabbing the nozzle etc... We don't get real specific about things like who's gonna ventilate, who grabs tools. That decision rests with the officer.

[WTFD10]

I have been pestering the officers of my department to implement riding assignments. Too often tools are forgotten or worse, everybody stands around waiting for the officer to tell them what to do.

This is my idea for our first and second due engines and our squad (which does truck duties.)

Engine 721 Riding Assignments:

Position: Officer
Tools: SCBA, assigned portable radio, handlight, others as needed.
Duties: Incident size up, investigation and Initial Incident Commander

Position: Driver
Tools: As needed
Duties: Drive safely, position apparatus, pump operator

Position: Nozzle
Tools: SCBA, preconnected hoseline
Duties:
A) Investigation Mode: Stands by ready to deploy initial attack line.
B) Working Fire Mode: Stretches attack line, attack fire as directed.

Position: Irons
Tools: SCBA, portable radio, “Irons Pack” (flathead axe and halligan bar)
Duties:
A) Investigation Mode: Assists officer with making forcible entry as needed
B) Working Fire Mode: Forcible entry as needed, back up Nozzleman on attack line.

Position: Hook & Can
Tools: SCBA, “Closet Hook” or 6’ Pike Pole, water can or dry chem. extinguisher, handlight.
Duties:
A) Investigation Mode: Assist officer with investigation
B) Working Fire Mode: Primary search. Also assist attack crew with exposing hidden fire.

Position: Hydrant
Tools: SCBA, portable radio, hydrant wrench, hydrant adapter, handlight. After hydrant connection, retrieve pickhead axe from engine.
Duties:
A) Investigation Mode: Assist other Firefighters as directed.
B) Working Fire Mode: Officer will specify if this is a “fast attack” or “laying in”.
1) “Fast Attack” – Assist Nozzleman with flaking out initial attack line.
2) “Laying In” – Pull LDH hose from rear and wrap hydrant, after engine is positioned, make hydrant connection.
After completing hydrant duties, meet up with “Hook & Can” for primary search.

Engine 722 Riding Assignments:

Position: Officer
Tools: SCBA, assigned portable radio, handlight, others as needed.
Duties: As directed by Incident Commander (usually “Backup”)

Position: Driver
Tools: As needed
Duties: Drive safely, position apparatus, pump operator

Position: Nozzle
Tools: SCBA, preconnected hoseline
Duties: Stretch backup line as directed.

Position: Backup
Tools: SCBA, handlight
Duties: Assist Nozzleman with hoseline.

Position: Hydrant
Tools: Portable radio, hydrant wrench, hydrant adapter, handlight. After hydrant connection, don SCBA from driver’s side compartment.
Duties: Pull LDH hose from rear and wrap hydrant. After engine is positioned, make hydrant connection. Assist 721 and 722 Drivers with securing water supply.

Squad 733 Riding Assignments:

Position: Officer
Tools: SCBA, Portable radio, handlight, others as needed.
Duties: As directed by Incident Commander (usually “Ventilation” and/or “Search”)

Position: Driver / Saws
Tools: As needed
Duties: Drive safely, position apparatus, ready saw(s) for roof ventilation use. Assist Roof FF with vertical ventilation as directed.

Position: Irons
Tools: SCBA, portable radio, irons pack, handlight
Duties: Primary or Secondary search as directed by Company Officer or IC.

Position: Hook & Can
Tools: SCBA, “Closet Hook” or 6’ pike pole, water extinguisher
Duties: Assist Irons with search, assist engine companies with exposing hidden fire.

Position: Roof
Tools: SCBA, pickhead axe, extension ladder from engine, PPV fan from engine.
Duties: With OVFF, ladder fire building as directed, set up Positive Pressure ventilation fan as directed. Perform vertical ventilation with driver as directed.

Position: Outside Vent
Tools: SCBA, 10' pike pole from engine, extension ladder from engine, PPV fan from engine.
Duties: With Roof FF, ladder fire building as directed, set up Positive Pressure ventilation fan as directed. Perform outside ventilation only as directed by Company Officer or IC.

[ameland]

On our light rescue we run a four man crew with the following jobs:

Driver. putting on wheel blocks, scene safety (cones etc.)

IOC front passenger seat, scene assessment

Right rear passenger, set up hydraulics and staging area

left rear passenger, set up lighting and staging area

If we beat the ambulance to the scene the most qualified person (other than IOC) will act as a first responder.

[txfireman1525]

We dont have a specific riding assingnment. Every person is trained what to do if he is the driver of if he is a rider

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

I don't think that's the purpose of the thread. Everyone knows what tasks have to be performed and how to perform them, or they shouldn't be on the truck. The point was if specific seats are given specific tasks, then the OIC doesn't have to turn around and tell the crew one by one what they are doing when they get there. It wastes his/her time doing pre-arrival size-up, finding hydrants, calling for mutual aid, listening to dispatch, etc, etc. I've riden the seat with and without bucket positions, and without them I've found that I've had to delay or skip my tasks as OIC by hand-holding the crew because they won't make decisions for fear of being accused of freelancing. Think about it: would you rather say "Two lines, 2nd floor, hydrant." or have to turn around and see who is sitting where and tell each person what they are supposed to do because they're going to fight over who gets what job? Because no one ever WANTS to hit the hydrant. "I hit the hydrant last time, I want the knob" or " He doesn't know what he's doing give it to me". If you think I'm making this up, guess again. It's another one of those things that make volunteers look like "vollies" instead of unpaid professionals.

[txfireman1525]

I don't think that's the purpose of the thread. Everyone knows what tasks have to be performed and how to perform them, or they shouldn't be on the truck

Im not sure what you meant by this, but what i meant by "everyone is trained what to do wether they are the driver or passenger." is they know that if they are the driver on the engine, they are going to opperate the pump. The passenger will pull off one of the attack lines, and if there is one more he will hook up to a water supply if one is available. If not, he will help the other man with the hose.
If they are on one of the brush trucks, the driver will get out and fire up the pump, the passenger will get up on front and get ready.

I didnt think i needed to go into detail, but i guess i didnt word my first post right.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Ah, now I see. You're going by the two to three man (excuse me, firefighter, sorry ladies) per engine thing. Most of the rest of us (I think) were going by a 6 man crew situation. If there are only 3 then it's really easy to figure out who's doing what but the difficulty level increases when you have a full boat.

[stillPSFB]

The difficulty increases further when you have musical chairs (ie the number of crew varies depending on the time of the day). It would be a tad embarrassing if you had riding assignments and there was nobody sitting in the nozzle seat that particular call

Down here it's difficult due to the fact that you don't need to be SCBA qualified to get on the truck, because you could have someone sitting in the nozzle seat that isn't scba qualified, or you may not have enough scba qualified firefighters to perform all the roles that require scba, so adjustments to the plan need to be made. An idea that may help is that the officer has small laminated cards made up for each role, and then hands each card to the firefighter best suited for that role. It would certainly work far better than waiting until we all get out of the truck and then the officer tells us what to do - I hate that.

[pumper41]

stillPSFB, why not have the OIC verbally assign the roles whilst enroute, that's what I and other OIC's at my vollie station do.

[stillPSFB]

Pumper41, It's what I do as well when I'm riding in the hot seat, however the "I'll decide what we're gonna do once I've had a look at it" method of allocating jobs is used normally. I like to be a bit more organised than that so that as soon as the truck stops I can do a walk around size-up while the crew are gearing up, but I guess everyone has their own methods.

[firefighterJB]

I recently went on a Mutal aid where the department We went in conjunction with had no riding assignments however the people who responded were made up of mostly Probes. When My department got on scene (15 min after initail trip) we saw one pumper, 5 firefighters, no Squad, one portatank, and no hoseline. Why u ask? That would be because the Ranking officer had to "baby" the crew because they had no idea on what job they were to do. When we finally got on scene we knew exactly what to do because of Seat Assignments. Driver stayed with the truck, Passanger was usually the Ranking officer so he took IC, Seat 1 was toolboy, Seat 2 was hose, and Seat 3 was for hooking a hydrant, or setting the portatank. With these quick assignments we were able to get a command set, and get a working attack. I believe that with Assignments it doesn't matter how many people who up wheither its 2 or 10 people. Ofcourse most Companies with Seating Assignments also have the No run w/o 4 people rule. Or at least the departments around us do.

[loxfire6016]

We only have one real assigned seating position, and that is the rear faceing seat on the officer side. That person is assigned to catch the hydrant. I've talked to the officers about maybe starting seating assignments, but it never really seems to take off.

In my department there is no minimum crew rule, we roll with who shows up. What I would like to know is, for those of you with seating assignments...vollies especially...do you have an order in which seating assignment are filled? Like hydrant and nozzel would be the first in my opinion, besides IC. What about the rest of you?

[loxfire6016]

Originally posted by firefighterJB
I recently went on a Mutal aid where the department We went in conjunction with had no riding assignments however the people who responded were made up of mostly Probes. When My department got on scene (15 min after initail trip) we saw one pumper, 5 firefighters, no Squad, one portatank, and no hoseline.

Don't bang on probies, they only know how to do what they've been taught and you used to be one yourself. By the way I'm not one, but anyway. Doesn't sound to me like riding assignments would have helped much in that situtation. Sounds like MORE and BETTER training was needed.

[crushedlt]

I see alot of talk about what to do if you have limited manning or an influx of the # of people coming out to a fire if you have assigned seating (buckets). One way to solve the problem is to assign a number to each seat 1 thru 4 for example. if the seat has a 1 then its a priority to have that job done( O.I.C. hydrant, attack, etc.) if each seat is assigned a number then the seats with a 1 are filled first seats with a 2 are second priority(OVM, egress laddering, etc) the next apparatus will need to handle those jobs if your short staffed. Some apparatus may need to have the same buckets with a second job also assigned to the bucket (ovm, egress laddering,etc). That way if the first in engine is short staffed then the truck can handle some of those jobs as a priority (OVM, Backup, egress ladders) that bucket then carries out the second priority job they have. Some buckets are exceptions (roof,Search,etc.) an example is to have an OVM, egress laddering buckets on the truck and engine, then the truck does those jobs if the engine is short staffed. Then can do the secondary job (asst. engine setup, second search crew, etc.) Those numbers can also be used to assign jobs on rescues and other types of calls.