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  1. #1
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    Default To Be Or Not To Be

    ok here is our situtation..........

    We just bought a Tanker 2600 Gallon Freightliner FL80 and is currently in service at the firehouse. We have applied 2 times for a Freightliner 1000 Gallon Pumper..... Our trucks and years is as follows


    RESCUE 1 - 1993 FORD F-350 XL 125 GALLONS
    BRUSH 1 - 1986 DODGE RAM 4X4 - 275 GALLONS
    TANKER 1 - 2003 FREIGHTLINER FL 80 - 2600 GALLONS
    ENGINE 1 - 1974 FORD 900 - 1000 GALLONS
    ENGINE 2 - 1971 FORD PIERCE - 500 GALLONS

    We have applied for a new pumper since the FEMA Grant has first started and the Chief is thinking about doing it again for the third time is the charm thing.... Well I tell him that we pretty much don't have a prayer of getting that truck and all that....

    How do you feel do you think we need to apply for a Pumper again even tho we just got that new Tanker or should we apply for equipment i.e PPE, SCBA, Turnout

    What do you recommend?

    We need some expertise at this and help us decide if we should use another year of applications to apply for that truck..

    John Betner
    Custer Fire & Rescue
    Breckinridge County ERT
    Breck Central EMS
    Incident Page Network - KTY012


  2. #2
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    Default Forgot Something

    The only way we was able to get that truck is we was given a 30,000 dollar grant thru a state level government or something like that and we get state aid for 8,250 every year... We would not be buying the truck but the State of Kentucky would with the state aid and the 30,000 dollars that was given to us

    So what ya think

    THink we should go for it?

  3. #3
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    Default

    With having that 2003 as first line truck. I wouldn't think you would have a chance. If I was your chief, I would be applying for gear. But that's me.

  4. #4
    Forum Member jmkfire's Avatar
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    Question

    I don't know what condition your apparatus is in, but from just what you have listed, you might have better odds at applying under the ops and safety for equip./gear that you do not have that would be essential/improve your cababilities. If you have all the equip. and gear that you need, then go for a new pumper.
    Just my 2 cents worth.

    "Just remember. No matter where you go. There you are!"

  5. #5
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    Default

    Anyone else give me their opinion or suggestions on what we should do

  6. #6
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    Default

    We have been told that when you mark the box that says "How many vehicles in the class that you are applying for?" with anything besides a 0 or 1 the computer will kick you out in the first round. I beleive this is how depts are getting ladders, tankers and the such. They don't have any in that class. Hope this helps.

  7. #7
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    Default

    You wanted an opinion and here it is. If you want to waste your time and help my odds in the equipment category, apply for a pumper. We had two pumpers last year, a 1967 and a 1971. Never made the first cut. Never made it to peer review. The grant documentation says that trucks go to those departments with few or no trucks. You have two. Even though they are old, you have two. Two is more than few or no trucks. We wasted a year and learned our lesson.
    Best of luck on whatever you decide.
    Malcolm Cunningham
    Fire Chief - Hardin FPD
    Hardin, MO

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber ChiefReason's Avatar
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    Default Don't waste your time on a truck!

    CusterFireman:
    Last year, 18,057 grant applications were received in the fire apparatus category. Of those, 524 were awarded. What do you suppose your chances are? Do the math. And besides; if you have a truck that is newer than 20 years old, you are unlikely to qualify.
    Last year, there were departments that got grants for trucks, but it was because they had never had one. In other words, if you have never had a brush truck and applied, you would be seriously considered for a grant.
    Go after something that you currently don't have. But don't apply for a rescue vehicle. They are a priority two request.
    Go for gear. SCBAs. Apply in a category that gives you a better chance and also gives you what you need.
    FEMA will tell you that you don't NEED another truck.
    Grab yourself a copy of the FEMA Program Guidance and 44CFR Part 152 and it all becomes abundantly clear.
    Good luck.
    CR
    Visit www.iacoj.com
    Remember Bradley Golden (9/25/01)
    RIP HOF Robert J. Compton(ENG6511)

  9. #9
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    Default

    Well we have 2 pumpers and we dont' have a structure high enough for a ladder truck. I tried to explain to my chief but he said that 1 more year which this year we are applying one more time

    Oh well

    We aren't in that bad of shape

  10. #10
    FH Mag/.com Contributor
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    Default

    Go for something with a small aerial device, like a squirt. Quints are a priority one. Anything with at least a 50' aerial device and a pump is a quint. Even though you don't have anything tall enough for a full 100' ladder, you still need something that can provide an aerial master stream. Spec CAFS, 50-65' aerial device, and the usual engine stuff. The idea that FEMA is looking for is the one that expands the capabilities of the department. As someone said, you have two standard pumpers now, and another one won't really do anything for you. Your project has to be something new and different to succeed.

    Brian
    Brian P. Vickers
    www.vickersconsultingservices.com
    Emergency Services Consulting
    Westlake VFD - Houston, TX
    Proud Member IACOJ - Redneck Division

  11. #11
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    Default Just Dawned On Me

    What if we applied for a Pumper 1000 Gallons to maybe stress the need for another station here in the area where I live..... There are places in our area that it takes us 10-12 minutes to get to just becuase its so far away.... WE have plenty of people in that area where we are wanting to put a Station 2.......... Would that work stress the importance of saving people money with our Class 9 ISO rating. Class 9 only covers 5 miles from our fire house and it doesn't not cover where the majority of our runs come from..... That way we could put a pumper and an old brush truck or something up there as a station 2 and keep the new pumper and all other trucks as Station 1. It would help people in saving money on insurance and it would also help us to lower ISO rating also

  12. #12
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    Default pumper

    I recently went to a FEMA sponsored seminar where this question was asked. The reply was, "If the truck you are hoping to replace is 1)not a front-line engine, and 2) not at least 30 years old, your chances for a new pumper are slim." Sorry, but I wouldn't go after it.

    Tim

  13. #13
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    Default

    Well NEITHER of our ENGINES are NFPA Compliant becuase of lack of funds to get them to that standard. They both are older than 30 years old and have high miles on them..... Our Engine 1 Will NOT PASS a pump test for unknown reasons why but it won't do it. Engine 2 passes it with absolutely no problem and it even does more than what it should so it can pump good for being a 30 + yr old truck. Don't get me wrong they are decent trucks for what they are but right now its the best trucks we got that doesn't even meet standards. I just don't understand why people doesn't support local fire departments/the county doesn't do anything for us either except pay insurance on the trucks and thats it. I wouldn't say we are hurting badly for a new pumper but I would say that having one would be great way to serve our community alot faster. After awhile working on your own engine becuase you can't afford to take it somewhere and get it completely redone gets old quick. I am just tired in seeing one fire department that is in a whole lot better shape then these little bitty fire departments not get ANYTHING but the fire departments that are taxing districts and all that good stuff get the 400,000 to 500,000 big quints. All we are asking is a NFPA compliant first out pumper 1000 Gallon Freightliner FL 80 total cost around 104,000. That 400,000 dollars that a fire department here in the state of Kentucky received for a truck could have furnished at least 3 possibly 4 brand new pumpers... We are 0 for 2 and I don't understand what we are doing to not get anything.......... We are an ISO Rating 9 trying to get to an 7 or 8 if we get this new pumper and right now we can't do it without it. Do you recommend using someone elses Narrative but changing it to where it talks about us or what we need to figure out something on how to get this FEMA Grant

  14. #14
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    Default

    It comes down to current and future potential call volume, and potential population assisted by the project. A quint with a high volume, high population district could probably rescue more people in one call out of an apartment building, than some departments even have calls. We got $312K for our rescue truck. That could have built 3 of the pumpers you spec'd. But we also border the 4th largest city in the country, and we cut more people out of cars in some weeks than attend high school at the other end of the county. How many more lives are going to be affected by our project over yours? That's one of the reasons that call volume and call types are asked for on the application. No offense, but I'm speculating that you don't have a high population that you're serving or a high call volume. I get that from what you've posted here and on other threads. If not, then it's completely irresponsible of the municipalities that you serve to let your equipment get in that shape and not help out. And it makes me wonder why you didn't get funded either.

    Everyone has to remember that FEMA is looking for new and innovative ideas for dealing with the problems of answering calls. REAL SOLUTIONS. Throwing a new pumper at someone because their other ones are old and broken down, isn't really a solution. You mentioned ISO rating, why aren't you putting on CAFS and making it a pumper tanker? If you can't afford the matching on that, say so. Because they're going to ask that very question when they read your app. Did you mention before that they're not NFPA compliant? (You might say 'of course I did dumbass', but you'd be surprised how many others I've talked to that just said 'I need the money, our truck is a POS'.) Say you have the matching for the truck you spec'd and the equipment that will need to go on it, or that it will come from the other truck.

    On another front, look into the ISO argument and use that on the towns and county to convince them to front some bills. It won't take much research to figure out median home price and % drop in insurance per rating drop.

    Read over the December 2002 Fire Engineering article by one of the peer reviewers. Rememeber, there's only 3 people that review your narrative, so the that is where you really sell your project. He doesn't give away the family secrets on how it is all done, but enough to shed some light on the review process. So your narrative has to explain everything in detail, and come up with great reasoning behind your decision to apply for it. If you already have all the gear you need, great SCBAs, plenty of training materials, say so. That will take the guess work out of the reviewer's job as to whether or not they might think you should be doing something else, and it will show that you've done your homework in preparing the grant.

    Good luck.

    Brian

  15. #15
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    Default

    I understand what you mean. We can match the funds if we do get a grant. Thats one of the things we are saving our money for and trying to keep spending down as much as possible.... On ISO it is good for a 5 mile radius anywhere at the firehouse. We save anyone depending on their insurance company 5-25% on their insurance... We have saw people that has brought in their statements and let us look at them before we was not rated and when we became an ISO 9. The fact of the matter is: We need another pumper. The engines we got are getting wore out. Their decent engines but it just takes a lot to keep them running. BC79ER I would like to talk to you outside the forum maybe in an E-mail or something if you don't care. I believe what the chief said is that if we do not get a pumper this year then we are going to quit asking for one and ask for Turnout and SCBA's... This will be our 3rd time trying and you know what they always said 3rd Time's The Charm so maybe for us it will be.... Our call volume has went up every year since 1998 where we only had around 80 runs in 2002 we had 170 so it rises every year

    Last Year (2002)

    Total Runs - 170

    We have fires ourself but we have an automatic 2 department knockout on a structure fire. So if another dept gets paged to a stucture fire and we are the next closest one we are automatically dispatched for mutual aid. We serve around 2,000 to 2,500 to people. We do collect fire dues at $35/year. Out of those people we had about a 50% payout on it. People around here think that their chance of the fire department needed at their house is very slim so they take that chance and if they are needed and we use anytime of equipment on a fire then we charge $500 for non - paying people.

    Guess thats about it I am really hoping we do some good this year on that FEMA Grant and Good Luck to everyone else!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    John

  16. #16
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    Default

    Custer - I emailed you thru the forum link. Just in case you didn't get it my email is brianv@firegraphics.org

  17. #17
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    Default BC79ER

    I did not receive your email because of all the spam I get on that account if you don't care please e-mail me at spwebb@kynet.net

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