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  1. #21
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Too true, Bones, too true.

    But you know what? Right now I am really glad that I live in a country where we can all make these posts and not think that the Speech Police are going to be waiting for us outside the door.

    Be it ever so ignorant, there's no speech like free!
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC



  2. #22
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    hmm ok you know first thing if you dont want to follow the laws set forth by this country get out


    and another thing Thomas Jefferson himself said every 100 years a revolution would be needed to clear the burocracy out of the goverment and the constitution would only work under one religion


    but what would i know i am just a christian Irish-mick


    not a full blood immigrant but my grnadparents were

    what would i care about middle east people moving here and covering thierd faces so you cant ID them


    it just makes it easier for them to bomb us some more

  3. #23
    MembersZone Subscriber Airborne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ThNozzleman


    Typical...this is MY country, too...and I should be able to pledge my allegiance to it without pledging to some rabbiwargodinthesky.

    I'm with you 100%. Last night after class, me and a few guys where out having a beer and we got on this conversation, and before I could even finish saying I disagreed, they where saying don't like it get out. Why are we so fast to toss everyone out that disagrees. The idea behind this country is that you don't have to be a robot, and that you can have different beliefs, and that the government will not dictate to you how you should belief.

    What if we changed that little in GOD we trust to In Mohammed we Trust. and just tell all the Christians if you don't like just don't say it or get the fing bleeping out. It SERVES no purpose other then for religion as a whole to try and stuff it's self down our throats.

    If you want your religious fix then go to church!!! But for people that do not believe like you they should not have to have it tossed at them when making a pledge, or going to public school, or any other place for that matter. Religion is a personal choice and should be kept that way.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Temptaker's Avatar
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    I have always had a tremendous amount of respect for the USA. The fact that it affords the same rightts and freedoms to all people.

    This thread has quickly degraded from whether a woman should be allowed to veil her face in a DL photo to a religious banter.

    This is possibly the most insulting, closed minded, racist statement that has been posted.

    Originally posted by ThNozzleman


    Typical...this is MY country, too...and I should be able to pledge my allegiance to it without pledging to some rabbiwargodinthesky.
    ThNozzleman,

    Understand this, I am not Jewish, and I am not a Christian, I have my own belief and I will not go into that here. I have spent many years studying many religions from many regions of the world.

    The most remarkable thing is that in ALL those religions, they have some fundamental beliefs which are the same, they may call their god by a different name, but there are principles and teachings that are equal in each.

    The laws of the US and many other countries were founded on those principles and teachings.

    NO ONE here tried to stuff their religion down your throat, no but you went into a diatribe about it, and no one made insulting remarks about your belief or lack of it.

    WHY are you being so hostile? If you choose to be an anarchist, an atheist, a pagan, a christian, a muslim, a buddhist or a patron of any other religious belief that is YOUR choice, and if you are comfortable with your choice then there is really no need to be hostile is there?

    I might not agree with someone else's choice of religion, however I would still fight for the right for them to have that choice. Christianity IS the religion that the United States and many other free world countries were founded on, because of it YOU have the luxury of free speech. You may say what you like, but please consider that no one really knows who is right when it comes to religion, and no one will until it is too late to tell anyone, and if either of our countries had been founded on a different belief system the world would be a MUCH different place.
    Last edited by Temptaker; 03-06-2003 at 11:29 AM.

  5. #25
    Forum Member fflynn17's Avatar
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    We all have our own beliefs or non-beliefs.

    I choose to not say the word "god" when I pledge my allegiance to my country.

    If YOU want to say the word "god" when YOU pledge YOUR allegiance to this country, it doesn't hurt me, so go ahead and do so.

    Our LAWS protect both of our positions, which is one of the wonderful things about this country.

    The woman with the rag over her face needs to take a new drivers licence picture, our LAWS state that it is for identification purposes. If someone does not like the LAWS in this country, they should go somewhere where the laws fit their beliefs.
    9/11/01 Never forget Never forgive

    Dusty, working on Crusty IACOJ

  6. #26
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Originally posted by fflynn17
    We all have our own beliefs or non-beliefs.

    I choose to not say the word "god" when I pledge my allegiance to my country.

    If YOU want to say the word "god" when YOU pledge YOUR allegiance to this country, it doesn't hurt me, so go ahead and do so.

    Our LAWS protect both of our positions, which is one of the wonderful things about this country.

    The woman with the rag over her face needs to take a new drivers licence picture, our LAWS state that it is for identification purposes. If someone does not like the LAWS in this country, they should go somewhere where the laws fit their beliefs.
    Some of the most sensible thoughts posted here yet.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  7. #27
    Permanently Removed CALFFBOU's Avatar
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    Default Wow...

    I wasnt looking to start some religious war
    here. I just agree with the article. If you
    odnt like it here in the the USA, dont let
    the door hit your rump on the way out...

    LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!

  8. #28
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    Lightbulb A little history lesson.....

    [i]But the fact remains the same; we are a diverse country, and everybody deserves a secular, non-biased government that is capable and willing to serve its peoples equally. Religion, especially the Christian religion, is not in the least concerned with that.[/B]

    Do know where the belief of separation of chruch and state, you so mentioned oringinated? I don't think you do. They begain in the 15th century, with a Protestant RELIGIOUS group known as Anabaptist. They believed that church should be separate from the affairs of state. You see at that time period, the Catholic chruch (no offence to Catholics) had there hands in almost all the governments in Europe. Well to make a long story short, some of these Anabaptist made a journey on a ship called the Mayflower, and landed at a place named Pymonth Rock. I'm sure you're familier with that story, right? Those people were some of the founders of our country, and are still around today. You may know them as Omish, Quakers, or Minites. These people, who are Christains, and believe in the same God as I, found the basis of that separation you speak so highly of. So if you are trying to say that religion has NOTHING to do with America, then think again.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: A little history lesson.....

    Originally posted by loxfire6016



    Do know where the belief of separation of chruch and state, you so mentioned oringinated? I don't think you do. They begain in the 15th century, with a Protestant RELIGIOUS group known as Anabaptist. They believed that church should be separate from the affairs of state. You see at that time period, the Catholic chruch (no offence to Catholics) had there hands in almost all the governments in Europe. Well to make a long story short, some of these Anabaptist made a journey on a ship called the Mayflower, and landed at a place named Pymonth Rock. I'm sure you're familier with that story, right? Those people were some of the founders of our country, and are still around today. You may know them as Omish, Quakers, or Minites. These people, who are Christains, and believe in the same God as I, found the basis of that separation you speak so highly of. So if you are trying to say that religion has NOTHING to do with America, then think again.
    Egads!

    It's Plymouth Rock and Pilgrims!

    The Amish and the Mennonites are not of English descent, they originally came from Germany.

    The only thing that gets me more ticked off than someone spouting about religion is when they get the facts wrong!

    PS: I agree with Bou entirely (except for "tactical tupperware" )
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  10. #30
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    Hey, guess what? Those early Christians were the ones who burned, drowned, and tortured people just because they were different or were supposedly "witches." Religion does one thing well; it separates people. And I resent being labeled a racist. I tire of Christians and their Jesus is Love one day, then invoking the wrath of the Old Testiment "god" the next. Leave religion out of government, just like the founders wanted. Sure, many of them were religious. But they were all of different faiths. The reason they didn't want religion in our government was because they didn't want Catholics murdering Protestants, or any one sect of a religion taking power over the other. This is what had gone on in Europe for hundreds, if not thousands of years. We ALL know who the "god" on our currency and in our pledge (an officially adopted pledge) is supposed to be...the CHRISTIAN "god" and no other. Don't believe me? Look up what ol' Ike said when the congress rammed their hysterics down America's throat. What about Pagan Americans? WHO CARES! What about Native Americans? WHO CARES! What about Muslim Americans? WHO CARES! What about Buddist Americans? WHO CARES! What about Hindu Americans? WHO CARES? What about Atheist/Agnostic Americans? WHO CARES! This is a "Christian" country and they can all just "get the hell out", right? You people live a fantasy world of your own making, and the rest of us be damned. Christianity is NOT a tolerant religion if it is practised as the "bible" commands. It endorses slavery, mistreatment of women, murder (as long as it's in the name of "god"), geneocide, hate, and arrogance. Of course, Christians don't see it...they can't see the forest for the trees. I'm supposed to retract my "blanket statement" about Christianity while you people sit there and tell me and millions of other Americans to "get out of the country"??? HA! Don't think this has anything to to with the fire service? Sorry; it affects all aspects of my life, and millions of other's lives, too. All I'm asking our government is that they remove their "god" from the proceedings, just like the Constitution says to do. It won't stop anyone from "practicing" their religion at all. But, the fact that they refuse to even consider it proves that they are being arrogant and flexing their political might in direct contradiction with what the law says. When I saw all those congress people standing on the steps of the capital, a place where millions of people of ALL faiths and beliefs have died to preserve, shouting out "one nation under god"....THEIR "god", it made me SICK. If you want to live in a theocracy, MOVE TO IRAN and see how YOU feel living under someone else's "god." Bet you wouldn't like it, either.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Re: A little history lesson.....

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain Gonzo
    [B]

    "It's Plymouth Rock and Pilgrims!"

    -Sorry about the spelling errors, I was in a bit of a hurry.

    "The Amish and the Mennonites are not of English descent, they originally came from Germany."

    -I never said they didn't. I said they came here and never mention anything about English decent. I am very aware the the Protestant movement started in Germany with Martin Luther. Once again spelling errors, but I think that my point was made. Which was that this country does have, small as it my be, a basis on religion.

    "The only thing that gets me more ticked off than someone spouting about religion is when they get the facts wrong!"

    -Would you like to challenge me to any other history contest? I'm up for it
    Last edited by loxfire6016; 03-06-2003 at 05:28 PM.

  12. #32
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    WOW!! How this thread has degenerated! Nozzleman- I only asked for a retraction of your contention the all cristians are ramming it down your throat. Or some such...... I am not now, nor have I ever pushed others to believe what I believe. I'm sorry you have a BOULDER on your shoulder regarding this issue.

    As for the woman's DL picture; show your face for pete's sake!
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  13. #33
    Forum Member ThNozzleman's Avatar
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    In my opinion, she should have removed her scarf/veil/whatever for her photo for the identification purposes that driver's licenses serve. But, I'm pretty sure that, here in Tennessee, people who are senior citizens aren't required to have their photos on their licenses. Don't really know what the reasoning behind this is. I suppose that if she had her license made without her photo and she is stopped for a routine traffic stop, the officer would have every reason to arrest her on the spot (which is what really happens when you are given a ticket...you are arrested and released with your stating that you will show up for court or pay the fine) take her to the station and finger-print her to confirm her identity. I also know for a fact that in our city it is against the law/ordinance to conceal your face while in the general public, such as wearing a ski-mask for no apparant reason, ie: cold weather. Seems like such a law would be discriminating agains Muslim women who choose to conceal their faces when in public. I believe this law was passed years ago to prevent the Ku Klux Klan from wearing their masks during their "meetings" in town. Old laws like this have a way of coming back to start trouble, long after the "problem" they were created to resolve is gone.

  14. #34
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    "The Amish and the Mennonites are not of English descent, they originally came from Germany."
    Originally posted by loxfire6016 in response to Gonzo's post quoted above:I never said they didn't. I said they came here and never mention anything about English decent.
    Actually, you did...in a way.
    Well to make a long story short, some of these Anabaptist made a journey on a ship called the Mayflower, and landed at a place named Pymonth Rock. I'm sure you're familier with that story, right? Those people were some of the founders of our country, and are still around today. You may know them as Omish, Quakers, or Minites.
    The original Pilgrims were actually Puritan Separatists not Anabaptists (they originated in Switzerland, not England, by the way), and were from a Nottinghamshire village called Scrooby or Scooby, or something like that. The point is that they were entirely English men and women that broke from the Church of England.

    The Anabaptists actually didn't arrive until the 1680's, around 60 years (give or take a couple) after the Pilgrims.

    So, when you said that, "You may know them as Omish, Quakers, or Minites", it was implied that the Amish, Quakers, and Mennonites were decendants of the Pilgrims, and as such were English.
    Last edited by Steamer; 03-06-2003 at 10:29 PM.
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  15. #35
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    What were we talkin about again?????????
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
    "Chet, get an inch and a half on that!"

    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

  16. #36
    Disillusioned Subscriber Steamer's Avatar
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    Considering the direction this one is going is it really worth remembering?

    Did the sailors on the Mayflower drink alcohol while on watch, or did they shut off their pagers?
    Steve Gallagher
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  17. #37
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    Default Re: Wow...

    Originally posted by CALFFBOU
    I wasnt looking to start some religious war
    here. I just agree with the article. If you
    odnt like it here in the the USA, dont let
    the door hit your rump on the way out...

    LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT!
    Oh..I must of missed that part of my oath that said I would support and defend the dictatorship of the United States...

    I do remember something along the lines of...
    "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it."

    Personally? I think the Federal Gov't is completely out of control and is abusing the Constitution massively. I believe that Washington is controlling ENTIRELLY way too much of my day to day life, and want them out. Makes this country beautiful. A- I can say that, and not be arrested, executed or persecuted for feeling that way. And B- I can change it.

    Not everybody who talks ill of the Gov't and the country don't want to be here. I want my Gov't to be run the way it was set up. Not the shadow of it that is in power now, and has been for the past 15-20 years.

    Doc
    DC2, ex-FDNY (E74)

  18. #38
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    hmm hinduism is a library of all religions so they can stay


    buddhism is a seperation from hinduism only thing differnet is the social caste system

    Islam is a religion taht is so tied into Christianity and Judism its a suprise they dont realise they are the same religion


    but i guess what i say has no meaning so dont count any of this as crebible

  19. #39
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
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    "Maybe you'd like to move to Iran".Got no interest in moving there but I could probably be talked into a flyby in a LOADED '52.I have a solution to some of our issues.Bring ALL of our troops home.Bring EVERY SINGLE FOREIGN AID PENNY home and keep it here.LOCK the borders and put AMERICANS back to work.This would eliminate the deficit,lower our taxes,and let the scwabblers sort it out on their own.Old Roosevelt wasn't too far off.Walk softly and carry a big CLUB.(sticks too small)T.C.

  20. #40
    Forum Member 1835Wayne's Avatar
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    I like the cut of your jib young man!!
    I.A.C.O.J. Charter Member
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    "Not for fame or reward,Not for place or rank. Not lured by ambition or goaded by necessity. But in simple obedience to duty as they understood it. These men suffered,sacrificed,dared all, and died. Let us never forget our fallen friends."

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